Yep.lpv said:
Another 2 examples:
Denon C630, Creek 4040, EV Sentry III's £600, great midrange and treble clarity, bite and dynamics, a touch lean in the bass, average (median) bass quality. I'd take this over the ATC's. Most people would take the ATC's - looks and size.
Denon C630, Creek 4040, EV Patrician 800's £200 (once in a lifetime lucky local theatre sale). Great midrange and treble clarity, bite dynamics, great overall tonal balance, full frequency extension, some woolliness in the upper bass.
The next step is to be paid to take away world class audio equipment...
Thanks and understood. You either know enough about the traits of each component, and pair them smartly to start with. Or pay well over, and keep doubling on that everytime you try to correct your first mistake 
macdiddy
Well-known member
newlash09 said:
Ummm, generally the more you spend the better the equipment is but how well it matches with other components or suits you is another matter entirely.
My setup for example (listed below) I originally started building around a Roksan Caspian M2 amplifier. I then bought the PMC 21's after having demo'd them 4-5 months prior to buying the amp. This was teamed with an Arcam iR DAC as the source running through my HTPC. The sound was okay but IMO the £400 retail cost of my DAC was being shown up by the £1900 amp and £1500 speakers.
So after a bit of messing around I bought the new Audiolab MDAC+ (£800 retail), unfortunately it sounded awful. The combo of the Roksan M2 and the audiolab was one of the worst I've ever heard and weirdly seemed to take every note and produce it through the speakers at the same volume which is probably one of the weirdest listening experiences of my life. Temporarily I switched back to my old Rotel RA03 Amp (£500 about 12 years ago) which cured the issues but was lacking weight and that sweet tone I had previously heard from a more expensive amp.
I then bought a Nait XS2 (£1850) and the sound is now near perfect to my ears, the point to all this explanation is that the Rokasan Caspian M2 Amp and the Naim Nait XS2 sit in the same price range and are both raved about equally but with my other equipment one was near perfect where the other may as well have been a £100 budget amp for the sound quality it gave. However, with other components the Roksan may have been just as good!
lpv said:
It's the old "Accuracy to the recording" vs "Accuracy to real life" debate; or "Neutral vs Natural".
I use how Piano, Human voice, Violin and Soprano are portrayed.
The characteristics I listed are "Relative" rather than "Absolute", which is why I picked components within the same brands.
If you have found brands that you like, going up in price, usually gives you more of the attributes that I mentioned. If you choose a system you don't like, because you believe it's more "accurate to the recording", chances are, you won't listen to it. Enjoyment of music is subjective....so by spending more on what you like, you should get further along the road, to enjoying the characteristics I described.
It's very hard to know what "Absolute Neutrality" is ie. Are highend Focal/B&W more neutral than ATC or Kef Reference? Is Gryphon more neutral than Bryston, Cyrus or Chord". Even Active speakers all sound different?
nopiano
Well-known member
On the Harbeth forum, the corporate line is that pretty much all decent amps sound the same. Interesting that Harbeth use the Hegel 360 to demo at shows, not a Denon AV amp!Vladimir said:
nopiano
Well-known member
What I find most interesting in this strange hobby of ours is this: the more you spend on products like speakers, the more diverse the designs get, and the further apart they get in the results they deliver.
While there are obviously some differences, many budget two-way bookshelf speakers share common traits. Hardly surprising when they are mostly mdf with vinyl wrap and similar sized drivers and cabinets. But if you look at many times the price, there are all manner of differing approaches.
There are themes, however. Sonus faber probably started the curvy, classy look, with shiny finishes, when matte wood in a rectangular box was the norm. Magico seem to have pioneered aluminium cast enclosures, which are slowly being copied. Quad of course led the way with electrostatics, which only a handful still do. Ribbon drivers are at last emerging in numbers, after pioneers like the Heil AMT. And even oddballs like Sonab, with their omni designs, are being replicated again. I suppose actives are gaining ground too, but I'm less familiar with many of them, and there are confusing divergences between designs.
As already suggested above, expenditure is no guarantee of success, but certain pairings seem to transcend their price point or at least prove dependable partners for long term satisfaction.
While there are obviously some differences, many budget two-way bookshelf speakers share common traits. Hardly surprising when they are mostly mdf with vinyl wrap and similar sized drivers and cabinets. But if you look at many times the price, there are all manner of differing approaches.
There are themes, however. Sonus faber probably started the curvy, classy look, with shiny finishes, when matte wood in a rectangular box was the norm. Magico seem to have pioneered aluminium cast enclosures, which are slowly being copied. Quad of course led the way with electrostatics, which only a handful still do. Ribbon drivers are at last emerging in numbers, after pioneers like the Heil AMT. And even oddballs like Sonab, with their omni designs, are being replicated again. I suppose actives are gaining ground too, but I'm less familiar with many of them, and there are confusing divergences between designs.
As already suggested above, expenditure is no guarantee of success, but certain pairings seem to transcend their price point or at least prove dependable partners for long term satisfaction.
Thanks all. Since pairing seems to be more critical than just price points. Can you kindly point me in the right direction here. IAM basically looking for a streamer with or without dac. As source for a parasound halo integrated amp and qacoustics concept 40 speakers.
The amp is supposed to be very neutral and balanced. The speakers are slightly laid back and warm. IAM basically looking for a well paced sound. Something akin to what the Naim delivers. But my budget is around 1000 pounds. And I would prefer the streamer to be in silver colour, to go visually with the amp. Even if a punchy sound is not possible, IAM fine with a good clear sound.
I know that the first advise would be to audition. Atleast some pointers here, would let me know where to start from.
Considering that the amp is a dual mono design. I was considering the Cambridge azur 851N, as it has a seperate dac for each channel. There by supposedly giving less cross talk between channels, and better imaging when paired with mono blocks or dual mono Amps.
I would have normally bought it by now. But as most of my music is normal MP3, was wondering if it deserves such a steep outlay. So had posted this topic, to basically gauge if going to pricier gear would improve sound from less than average MP3.
The amp is supposed to be very neutral and balanced. The speakers are slightly laid back and warm. IAM basically looking for a well paced sound. Something akin to what the Naim delivers. But my budget is around 1000 pounds. And I would prefer the streamer to be in silver colour, to go visually with the amp. Even if a punchy sound is not possible, IAM fine with a good clear sound.
I know that the first advise would be to audition. Atleast some pointers here, would let me know where to start from.
Considering that the amp is a dual mono design. I was considering the Cambridge azur 851N, as it has a seperate dac for each channel. There by supposedly giving less cross talk between channels, and better imaging when paired with mono blocks or dual mono Amps.
I would have normally bought it by now. But as most of my music is normal MP3, was wondering if it deserves such a steep outlay. So had posted this topic, to basically gauge if going to pricier gear would improve sound from less than average MP3.
Typical AVR will have no where near the power of a Hegel H360.nopiano said:
They have used cheap integrateds in demos to create a stirr, but generally they keep amps of decent quality and size.
Had'nt considered the linn before. Just checked out the reviews. And it seems to be in the market from 2009. So was a bit sceptical about the digital revolution having marched on a bit ever since. Especially the evolution of Dac's.
So is it still a good buy today at the 1000 pounds mark, considering that the azur 851N is only 200 pounds more, and is almost a new product. Thanks again.
So is it still a good buy today at the 1000 pounds mark, considering that the azur 851N is only 200 pounds more, and is almost a new product. Thanks again.
newlash09 said:
I am just a big fan of the Linn DS, due to the analogue way it presents music....but I don't expect anyone to take my word for it...so go have a listen.
IMO. It's sound matched, or bettered all but the most expensive Linn CDPs (which is why they stopped production of them). It's a great piece of kit.
That is a most reassuring endorsement indeed. Will add it to the short listed candidates for a audition. Which so far are the oppo bdp105, Azur 851N, and now the linn DS.
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