How does sound change with money

[newlash09]

Was just reading some reviews on 'The absolute sound' of some ridiculously priced kit. I have never been to any hifi shows, and have never heard anything apart from my own modest setup.

I have seen some people here being happy with their pricey kit, and also people equally happy with their modest well matched setups.
So was curious to know, how sound changes with price.

Considering a well matched, all included setup at price points of 1000, 5000 & 10000 pounds respectively. How can the sound be expected to change from one to the other. Thanks.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[lindsayt]

There is almost no co-relation between how much someone has paid for their system and how it sounds.

There is more co-relation between weight and sound quality, and that is a tenuous one.

If a component cost over a million yen new and is heavy, there's a very high chance it'll sound good to world class. There are also examples of equipment that's lightweight and were inexpensive new that sound world class.

 

[lpv]

1) £400 Auralic Aries MIni direct to £7k ATC SCM40 actives sounds same as Aries Mini to ATC £1400 preamp to same speakers

2) I doubt you could tell a difference between £2.4k headphone amp and £80 amp of the same power

3) my 3 way, big and heavy £7k ATC SCM40 compared to £2k AVI DM10s: first and obvious: 40s midrange is thick, treble forward, also more bass thump but not lower, midbass is stronger... while AVI's got much better stereo image, are clearer with way better uncoloured midrange

you don't need to spend much, just wiser

 

[lindsayt]

Whatever you buy in hi-fi there's something you could have gotten elsewhere for less money that would have sounded better.

 

[bigboss]

It's not just our ears that determine the quality of sound. It's the whole sensory experience.....if a product oozes high build quality and looks and feels gorgeous, half the battle is won already.

 

[muljao]

It's not just our ears that determine the quality of sound. It's the whole sensory experience.....if a product oozes high build quality and looks and feels gorgeous, half the battle is won already.

I think there is an awful lot of truth here. Of course modern electronics can help with sound quality but build means a lot, especially so with speakers IMO

 

[CnoEvil]

IME. The characteristics that usually improve, are things like:

- Detail

- Realism

- Improved dynamic shifts, where sudden loud sections really "slam".

- Bass Definition, Depth, Tautness and Punch

- Clarity

- Impact

 

[lpv]

It's not just our ears that determine the quality of sound. It's the whole sensory experience.....if a product oozes high build quality and looks and feels gorgeous, half the battle is won already.

some are more immune in this regard than others

 

[lpv]

IME. The characteristics that usually improve, are things like:

- Detail

- Realism

- Improved dynamic shifts, where sudden loud sections really "slam".

- Bass Definition, Depth, Tautness and Punch

- Clarity

- Impact

any examples?

 

[Vladimir]

It's not just our ears that determine the quality of sound. It's the whole sensory experience.....if a product oozes high build quality and looks and feels gorgeous, half the battle is won already.

some are more immune in this regard than others

Some think they are immune but are the extreme opposite.

 

[lpv]

It's not just our ears that determine the quality of sound. It's the whole sensory experience.....if a product oozes high build quality and looks and feels gorgeous, half the battle is won already.

some are more immune in this regard than others

Some think they are immune but are the extreme opposite.

luxury audio is not necessarily designed for accuracy.. the problem aries when someone think that buying heavy amp with vu meters or exotic cables improves the sound

 

[newlash09]

Considering that I haven't heard much. I don't really know the benefits of stepping up the ladder. But if spending smartly outweighs the benefits of spending more, then there is certainly something wrong with the reviews where they wax eloquent. I always thought that one got what they paid for with trusted brands. That is what brand equity is all about.

 

[CnoEvil]

IME. The characteristics that usually improve, are things like:

- Detail

- Realism

- Improved dynamic shifts, where sudden loud sections really "slam".

- Bass Definition, Depth, Tautness and Punch

- Clarity

- Impact

any examples?

There is no point in comparing a 1k system to a 10k system, so I will give examples of systems that I've heard and use more expensive models within the same brand.

Linn Sneaky DS + Arcam A29 + Kef Q700 (cost about 3k)

Linn Akurate DS + Arcam A49 + Kef R700 (cost about 11k)....replace the R700s with some Ref 3s and the system takes another big leap.....and so it goes on.

 

[Vladimir]

Considering that I haven't heard much. I don't really know the benefits of stepping up the ladder. But if spending smartly outweighs the benefits of spending more, then there is certainly something wrong with the reviews where they wax eloquent. I always thought that one got what they paid for with trusted brands. That is what brand equity is all about.

This is the perfect time to go and look up what "Veblen goods" means.

 

[macdiddy]

certain brands will always get good ratings because if they started getting bad ones then they would stop supplying new products for reviews.

*music2*

 

[CnoEvil]

Considering that I haven't heard much. I don't really know the benefits of stepping up the ladder. But if spending smartly outweighs the benefits of spending more, then there is certainly something wrong with the reviews where they wax eloquent. I always thought that one got what they paid for with trusted brands. That is what brand equity is all about.

First of all, you have to understand which brands give you the sound you like, or spending more money can actually sound worse.

I also believe, that all things being equal, you have to double the price of a component, to get a worthwhile improvement (due to diminishing returns).

 

[lpv]

Considering that I haven't heard much. I don't really know the benefits of stepping up the ladder. But if spending smartly outweighs the benefits of spending more, then there is certainly something wrong with the reviews where they wax eloquent. I always thought that one got what they paid for with trusted brands. That is what brand equity is all about.

First of all, you have to understand which brands give you the sound you like, or spending more money can actually sound worse.

I also believe, that all things being equal, you have to double the price of a component, to get a worthwhile improvement (due to diminishing returns).

if accuracy ( together with detail, realism, dynamics, definition, depth, punch and clarity) is high on a list of priorities then it's worth to remember that less distortion and more transparency ( see thru, no sound on its own) is needed from all the components to achieve that goal..

you may like your speakers to sound more warm, airy, open, bassy etc but the sound of a recorded piano is what it is.. loudspeakers are not instruments

 

[lpv]

of course.. not in absolute terms

recordings and rooms vary regardless of the replay equipment

but I think well recorded acoustic instruments as reference is a good starting point

 

[Electro]

IME. The characteristics that usually improve, are things like:

- Detail

- Realism

- Improved dynamic shifts, where sudden loud sections really "slam".

- Bass Definition, Depth, Tautness and Punch

- Clarity

- Impact

Spot on Cno *good*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

IME. The characteristics that usually improve, are things like:

- Detail

- Realism

- Improved dynamic shifts, where sudden loud sections really "slam".

- Bass Definition, Depth, Tautness and Punch

- Clarity

- Impact

Spot on Cno *good*

+ 1

 

[lindsayt]

There is no point in comparing a 1k system to a 10k system, so I will give examples of systems that I've heard and use more expensive models within the same brand.

Linn Sneaky DS + Arcam A29 + Kef Q700 (cost about 3k)

Linn Akurate DS + Arcam A49 + Kef R700 (cost about 11k)....replace the R700s with some Ref 3s and the system takes another big leap.....and so it goes on.

Here's another 3 examples:

LInn LP12SE, Klimax DS, Klimax Control, 4200 fully active to Majik Isobariks, c£40k. Poor bass and relatively high midrange distortion at high volumes.

Linn Klmax DS, Akubariks c£28k. Scratchy midrange and below average (median) bass.

Benchmark DAC, active ATC 50's c8k. Great midrange detail resolution, lean bass, some dynamic compression. I would take this over the 2 x Linn systems.

 

[jmjones]

Assuming you have a reasonably balanced set up in the first place, I'm with Cno. Generally speaking, doubling your money on a component makes a decent difference. It's also easy to spend a lot of money and end up with something duff to your ears, so i'm a great believer in spending a lot of time getting direct comparisons before you part with your money. I'm one of the few people I know who have been seen carrying a pair of Kef 104ab's INTO a dealership. Aah, how we suffer for art.

 

[CnoEvil]

Here's another 3 examples:

LInn LP12SE, Klimax DS, Klimax Control, 4200 fully active to Majik Isobariks, c£40k. Poor bass and relatively high midrange distortion at high volumes.

Linn Klmax DS, Akubariks c£28k. Scratchy midrange and below average (median) bass.

Benchmark DAC, active ATC 50's c8k. Great midrange detail resolution, lean bass, some dynamic compression. I would take this over the 2 x Linn systems.

IMO. I feel Linn amps give poor value for money, for the sound they give and they don't make great speakers. They are a great example, for my taste, of how you can spend lots of money without getting a great sound.

 

[lpv]

Here's another 3 examples:

LInn LP12SE, Klimax DS, Klimax Control, 4200 fully active to Majik Isobariks, c£40k. Poor bass and relatively high midrange distortion at high volumes.

Linn Klmax DS, Akubariks c£28k. Scratchy midrange and below average (median) bass.

Benchmark DAC, active ATC 50's c8k. Great midrange detail resolution, lean bass, some dynamic compression. I would take this over the 2 x Linn systems.

excellent.. and to quote your own words:

" Whatever you buy in hi-fi there's something you could have gotten elsewhere for less money that would have sounded better."

so both benchmark dac and atc 50s can be surpassed by something you could have gotten elsewhere for less money that would have sounded better