How close do the two sides actually get?

[fr0g]

I am a 1.

There are only 3 specs I look at:

Price when new.

Weight.

Price now.

Another surprise.

I thought there would have been a subjective element to your choices.....though is it simply that you can't get to listen to the equipment you buy?

Remember, if you are a 1, you don't need to hear something to know that you will like it, as the specs/measurements tell you everything about how it will sound. Playing the percentage and selling on if you don't like it, does not count as a 1.

If it cost more than 1 million yen new. If it's a source or speakers that weigh over 70 kgs, or an amp that weighs over 25 kgs. And it costs about £150 now, or is selling for £1000 less than the going rate, then it will be good enough for me to buy and enjoy a lot.

Then I think you are a 1.5.

I'd have said "nutter".

What on earth have any of those measurements, original price, weight?????, got to do with anything?

The mind boggles, but all becomes far more clear when reading replies for sure.

 

[chebby]

I am a 1.

There are only 3 specs I look at:

Price when new.

Weight.

Price now.

Another surprise.

I thought there would have been a subjective element to your choices.....though is it simply that you can't get to listen to the equipment you buy?

Remember, if you are a 1, you don't need to hear something to know that you will like it, as the specs/measurements tell you everything about how it will sound. Playing the percentage and selling on if you don't like it, does not count as a 1.

If it cost more than 1 million yen new. If it's a source or speakers that weigh over 70 kgs, or an amp that weighs over 25 kgs. And it costs about £150 now, or is selling for £1000 less than the going rate, then it will be good enough for me to buy and enjoy a lot.

Then I think you are a 1.5.

I'd have said "nutter".

What on earth have any of those measurements, original price, weight?????, got to do with anything?

The mind boggles, but all becomes far more clear when reading replies for sure.

So the ideal is an old tank ...

Millions when built

Only scrap value now

Weighs about 50 tons.

 

[lindsayt]

Fr0g, can you name me a single piece of audio equipment that meets my criteria that is not worth buying?

Would you like me to give you examples of things that I've bought and how delighted I've been with them?

And what's with the insulting ad hominem, calling me a nutter? I think that's a very ignorant statement to make - unless you can answer the first question in this post.

Surely anyone buying according to my personal guidelines, would, by definition, be buying great value audio equipment? Great value in terms of manufacturing cost vs buying price, or selling on price? That, to me is entirely sensible and open minded with no hint of insanity at all to it. Why complicate a buying process, when it can be so simple and yield consistently great results in terms of sound quality per pound spent?

And Chebby, a tank is a tank. It's not a hi-fi component. Some of the equipment I've bought has been tank like. Guess how it has sounded compared to the more consumer oriented equipment I've compared it to?

 

[lindsayt]

CnoEvil, you could be right, I might be a 1.5.

But, I buy my hi-fi equipment or commit to buy it without ever hearing it. If it's a cash on collection the demo on collection will be from the point of view of checking that it's working as per the sellers description, which may not tell me much about how it will sound in my system at home.

 

[CnoEvil]

I should have added I did also audition so I think that makes me a 2 .

Fair enough, 2 it is then.

 

[CnoEvil]

I'd have said "nutter".

Make no mistake, everyone on here is a nutter...and all the better for it (imo). *biggrin*

 

[chebby]

Do you prefer to buy equipment weghed in metric or 'Imperial' units? (As quoted in the original manufacturer's specs, not the vendor's listing.)

Guineas or pounds or dollars? Which sounds best?

Cubic feet or metres?

 

[lindsayt]

Weirdly maybe, 4.

Without a doubt.

I consider myself more of an objectivist. But in the end, if I do demo something and it sounds good to me, then that is enough.

The only reason I became an objectivist in these debates is because of quite clearly nonsense claims from the subjectivist camp (not to mention the utter uselessness of reviews, WHF being a prime example of the BS propagation league.)

Fr0g, have you ever bought, or would you ever consider buying:

speakers with cabinets larger than 250 litres?

any hi-fi equipment more than 30 years old?

 

[fr0g]

Weirdly maybe, 4.

Without a doubt.

I consider myself more of an objectivist. But in the end, if I do demo something and it sounds good to me, then that is enough.

The only reason I became an objectivist in these debates is because of quite clearly nonsense claims from the subjectivist camp (not to mention the utter uselessness of reviews, WHF being a prime example of the BS propagation league.)

Fr0g, have you ever bought, or would you ever consider buying:

speakers with cabinets larger than 250 litres?

any hi-fi equipment more than 30 years old?

Er,

No. To both. Unless I became rich enough to be able to afford to hide such volume behind a wall and acoustically transparent screen. I would only buy something that old if I became a collector or antique dealer.

I did enjoy listening to a pair of B&W 800D a few years ago which I thought were huge, but I think it's unlikely I'd ever buy them.

By the way apologies for "nutter". I can be a bit frank sometimes It does strike me as an extremely odd set of criteria mind you, however successful you find it.

 

[chebby]

It does strike me as an extremely odd set of criteria mind you, however successful you find it.

Hmm, I don't know, i'm coming round to the idea of a 'new' valve, all-in-one iPad speaker system with radio ...

 

[MeanandGreen]

I always read the technical data and that largely sways my decision.

I also read the professional reviews (taken lightly), but if several reviewers are saying the same things it's usually a good sign. I also read the reviews from people who have bought the kit online.

I never audition, it's a waste of time. Nothing sounds right when trying to dissect your favourite music in a strange place for an hour.

 

[CnoEvil]

I always read the technical data and that largely sways my decision.

I also read the professional reviews (taken lightly), but if several reviewers are saying the same things it's usually a good sign. I also read the reviews from people who have bought the kit online.

I never audition, it's a waste of time. Nothing sounds right when trying to dissect your favourite music in a strange place for an hour.

So I think it's fair to say that you are a 1.

 

[iQ Speakers]

I bought all my kit beacuse of the strong opinions of other forum members, first the Leema Pulse and PMC DB1i's. I did take lots of other factors in from other sources before buying. I bought 2nd hand and carfully, sold it all for what i paid 2 years later. Same with the Sugden A21SE though that was new i got it at a very discounted price as it was an open box. I bought the Abrahamsen Amp beacuse of Electro but i did look at the spec's, now that was a huge leep in the dark. They have all paid off. the other thing is I would of never bough a Naim etc amp, i was alway looking at quirky small brands. The only item i have bought that i have been less than happy with was the Linn Majik DS (sorry Cno) but I i took it all on the chin and leanrt along the line. I bought my IPL speaker kit beacuse everthing stacked up high quality driver and tweeter, masses of independent, exceptionally positive reviews no middle men and i ended up with a HiFi bargin. I never even considered the measurements they seem meaninless.

 

[CnoEvil]

I bought all my kit beacuse of the strong opinions of other forum members, first the Leema Pulse and PMC DB1i's. I did take lots of other factors in from other sources before buying. I bought 2nd hand and carfully, sold it all for what i paid 2 years later. Same with the Sugden A21SE though that was new i got it at a very discounted price as it was an open box. I bought the Abrahamsen Amp beacuse of Electro but i did look at the spec's, now that was a huge leep in the dark. They have all paid off. the other thing is I would of never bough a Naim etc amp, i was alway looking at quirky small brands. The only item i have bought that i have been less than happy with was the Linn Majik DS (sorry Cno) but I i took it all on the chin and leanrt along the line. I bought my IPL speaker kit beacuse everthing stacked up high quality driver and tweeter, masses of independent, exceptionally positive reviews no middle men and i ended up with a HiFi bargin. I never even considered the measurements they seem meaninless.

You are in that small, but growing group, outside my rather simplistic scale ie. you do your research online and buy according to that, without getting caught up in measurements.

Regarding the DS, it works best when connected directly to a NAS (like Qnap) and controlled by Linn software (through a PC/iThingy)...I was always a little confused if this was how yours was wired up and operated.

 

[EvPa]

Guineas or pounds or dollars? Which sounds best?

Krugerrands.

 

[steve_1979]

I am a 1.

There are only 3 specs I look at:

Price when new.

Weight.

Price now.

What a bizarre way of choosing hifi equipment.

 

[iQ Speakers]

I supose i buy everthing like that i assimitate masses of information from multiple sources and if they all coritalte i continue down that path. It usually works very well. Its why I picked the AVI's for my mum she wanted simple but high quality sound. I figured that lots of people saying they were excellent and protecting them in such a public manner can not be all wrong. As for the DS i guess using it to play Spotify was not its strong suite and I choose incorectly not taking that into account.

 

[fr0g]

I am a 1.

There are only 3 specs I look at:

Price when new.

Weight.

Price now.

What a bizarre way of choosing hifi equipment.

Yep

Shame I didn't put a cheap Pioneer amp in a lead-lined case, charge £100,000 20 years ago and reduce it to £5000 now.

 

[lindsayt]

Weirdly maybe, 4.

Without a doubt.

I consider myself more of an objectivist. But in the end, if I do demo something and it sounds good to me, then that is enough.

The only reason I became an objectivist in these debates is because of quite clearly nonsense claims from the subjectivist camp (not to mention the utter uselessness of reviews, WHF being a prime example of the BS propagation league.)

Fr0g, have you ever bought, or would you ever consider buying:

speakers with cabinets larger than 250 litres?

any hi-fi equipment more than 30 years old?

Er,

No. To both. Unless I became rich enough to be able to afford to hide such volume behind a wall and acoustically transparent screen. I would only buy something that old if I became a collector or antique dealer.

I did enjoy listening to a pair of B&W 800D a few years ago which I thought were huge, but I think it's unlikely I'd ever buy them.

By the way apologies for "nutter". I can be a bit frank sometimes It does strike me as an extremely odd set of criteria mind you, however successful you find it.

Thank-you for your apology for the nutter comment. Apology accepted.

In some ways you are a 2, because you use two specifications to pre-select your hi-fi purchases: age and speaker cabinet size. I dare say there are other specifications that you use to pre-select your purchases.

I think that there's more to Cnoevils opening question and choice of answers than meets the eye. I think he's asked a pretty deep question.

 

[Electro]

I supose i buy everthing like that i assimitate masses of information from multiple sources and if they all coritalte i continue down that path. It usually works very well. Its why I picked the AVI's for my mum she wanted simple but high quality sound. I figured that lots of people saying they were excellent and protecting them in such a public manner can not be all wrong. As for the DS i guess using it to play Spotify was not its strong suite and I choose incorectly not taking that into account.

I think you mind and method of reasoning works very much like mine *smile* .

 

[lindsayt]

I am a 1.

There are only 3 specs I look at:

Price when new.

Weight.

Price now.

What a bizarre way of choosing hifi equipment.

Yep

Shame I didn't put a cheap Pioneer amp in a lead-lined case, charge £100,000 20 years ago and reduce it to £5000 now.

Yeah, but that's the point. Nobody did.

And, by the way Pioneer made a turntable that's close enough to my criteria: 650 000 yen new (chuck in the right cartridge and phono amplification to bring total price up to a million) and 47 kgs. When I see one for the right price I will buy it without hesitation and without hearing it first.

Steve1979, think about it. Do you really think that bargain hunting is a bizarre way of buying hi-fi? And do you really think it's bizarre to limit your purchases to an elite club of highly expensive (when new) and reasuringly heavy (some indication of engineering content) equipment?

Anyone is welcome to use the same purchasing methodology and criteria as me, and report back here how you found the experience.

 

[Al ears]

Guineas or pounds or dollars? Which sounds best?

Krugerrands.

Seconded ................

 

[Vladimir]

Buying an old statement hi-fi product (aka High End) for the price of a new budget component is nuts?

Arcam A19 vs Urushi design Pioneer Elite, I pick the Pioneer, no audition needed except simple check if everything is in working order.

I wouldn't call the guy who bought the Arcam nuts. Just shortsighted, thats all. Not restricting yourself to the latest hi-fi fad is such an adventure. People who havent hunted for old statement gear should consider the experience. It is amazing fun.

 

[steve_1979]

Steve1979, think about it. Do you really think that bargain hunting is a bizarre way of buying hi-fi?

Bargin hunting isn't bizzare. What's bizzare is using the price when new, the when price old and the weight as the only criteria without any other considerations.

Take the weight for example. A heavy item may be heavy because it's well built and/or has a big PSU which is probably a good thing. However weight is not the only factor and not all items need to be heavy to be good. In fact some heavy items are rubbish and some light weight items are good. My DM5's for example are pretty light weight but that's not a reflection of the quality. They're only light weight due to having small enclosures and class D amplification both of which don't need to be heavy.

Much more logical factors than weight which most people consider (along with the price) are things like sound quality, functionality, reliability and aesthetics.

The price part that you mentioned is more logical but only if you introduce other factors as well. Some stuff was expensive when new because it was overpriced to start with. Some stuff is only cheap second hand because it's not very good so nobody wants it meaning they aren't willing to pay a higher price.

And do you really think it's bizarre to limit your purchases to an elite club of highly expensive (when new) and reasuringly heavy (some indication of engineering content) equipment?

I take it you mean AVI?

I didn't limit my choices to just one manufacturer. I looked at all the options including those from other companies and only after considering factors such as price, sound quality, functionality, aesthetics, reliability and resale value did I make a choice.

 

[fr0g]

Weirdly maybe, 4.

Without a doubt.

I consider myself more of an objectivist. But in the end, if I do demo something and it sounds good to me, then that is enough.

The only reason I became an objectivist in these debates is because of quite clearly nonsense claims from the subjectivist camp (not to mention the utter uselessness of reviews, WHF being a prime example of the BS propagation league.)

Fr0g, have you ever bought, or would you ever consider buying:

speakers with cabinets larger than 250 litres?

any hi-fi equipment more than 30 years old?

Er,

No. To both. Unless I became rich enough to be able to afford to hide such volume behind a wall and acoustically transparent screen. I would only buy something that old if I became a collector or antique dealer.

I did enjoy listening to a pair of B&W 800D a few years ago which I thought were huge, but I think it's unlikely I'd ever buy them.

By the way apologies for "nutter". I can be a bit frank sometimes It does strike me as an extremely odd set of criteria mind you, however successful you find it.

Thank-you for your apology for the nutter comment. Apology accepted.

In some ways you are a 2, because you use two specifications to pre-select your hi-fi purchases: age and speaker cabinet size. I dare say there are other specifications that you use to pre-select your purchases.

I think that there's more to Cnoevils opening question and choice of answers than meets the eye. I think he's asked a pretty deep question.

Again though, they are not specifications, rather than features. I have not got the room or the desire for huge speakers, so I would choose smaller ones. I do like floorstanders though. My Dali Ikon 6 are still in use, and that type of size is fine as they take up no more room than standmounts (on a stand)

I would always choose on "features" then would, if possible, listen first. The actual specs such as SNR/ distortion etc I would probably never even search out.

I would look for listed power of an amplifier simply to make sure it could power the speakers, but beyond that, listening is easily the best method of finding out if something works for me.

So I still consider myself closest to 4.