Gapless playback on Denon Ceol RCD N8, Marantz M CR603 and Onkyo CR N755

[paddyb]

Sorry to start yet another thread about these three systems (especially the first 2), but I have read most of the others and still need some clarification on the situation with gapless playback.

As I understand it the Marantz won't handle gapless playback, it's a hardware constraint and won't be fixed in firmware. I've seen references to the Onkyo not being able to either, but wonder if this is still the case, perhaps a firmware update has fixed this? And several dealers are listing gapless playback on the feature list of the Denon, so can anybody confirm that it does work on this machine? Happy to be corrected on any of this.

My main requirement is high quality playback of uncompressed (currently Apple Lossless, but I can convert to Flac etc if it helps) files. I don't actually need to stream them as they are all a portable hard drive, but I think browsing well over 500 albums on any of these machines is going to be hopeless without using a remote control app or some other DLNA streaming app (I have an old Android phone I can dedicate to this), so will need to make use of the networking capabilities. Wifi is not necessary, as it will sit right next to my router.

Gapless playback is important to me as I'm quite old fashioned and mostly listen to albums, not tracks. I need either internet radio or DAB (BBC Radio 6 mostly) and I don't want to stream music from my computer, I will store it on a portable hard drive or a Humax Fox T2 PVR (DLNA compatible) which I am planning to buy in the next couple of weeks. I still need to play CD's as well.

Sound quality is important to me and I've ruled out the Brennen and Cocktail Audio systems, which seem to work very well on a practical level but don't appear to cut it sound wise. I haven't auditioned any of these systems yet, the Marantaz seems to have the best feedback sound wise. If none of these solutions satisfy my needs then I might move on to look at separates and use something like a second hand Squeezebox Classic to stream. I was originally hoping to spend no more than £400, but will go up to £500 (including speakers) for a solution with the right mix of sound quality and usability/reliability.

A longer post than I had planned, but would welcome your thoughts on this.

 

[nwhitter]

I was looking at these as well. Hadnt about the gapless thing until now. A bit of a deal breaker for me, so would like to know for sure which of these can do it.

 

[paddyb]

Ok, so done some more reading. It seems that the Marantaz can’t handle gapless over DLNA, quite a few discussions about this. There was a post on this site from some who had an email from Marantaz confirming that this would NOT be possible, but I can’t find it now. Less info on the Onkyo and some indications that the Denon might, it is listed as a feature of this model on Denon’s site, but it doesn’t actually specify if this is via streaming or USB. I would really like to hear from owners of these systems of their experience with this.

It sounds like the major stumbling block is DLNA, though it is possible with some other devices. Changing tack slightly, could someone tell me if I can play gapless on any of these from a USB hard drive connected directly to the device? If this would work, then I’d be happy with that as long as it’s relatively easy to browse through hundreds of albums. Would a remote app be able to recognise the USB drive? I’m hoping that this will work as its not actually streaming.

 

[nwhitter]

The Denon & Marantz are very similar inside according to this thread, so possibly if one can then the other also, or vice versa:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/new-denon-ceol-n8-and-marantz-mcr-603-what-are-the-significant-differences

 

[Chr1s_J]

I use the Marantz and it is gapless... aslong as you are using Airplay. I do, so I'm happy. If you don't want to use Airplay and want/need gapless playback then another system might suit you better.

 

[paddyb]

Thanks Chris. Have you ever tried playing from a USB stick or hard drive? Airplay isn't going to work for me as I don't want to rely on streaming them from my PC (if that even works with Airplay?) I do own an iPod, but its only 30gb so not big enough for all my music in a lossless format.

 

[paddyb]

I use the Marantz and it is gapless... aslong as you are using Airplay. I do, so I'm happy. If you don't want to use Airplay and want/need gapless playback then another system might suit you better.

I'm begining to think that airplay might be the best option. I can get a second hand netbook etc to run itunes on. I've also read that Synergy NAS now have airplay support, though a netbook is a cheaper and probably easier option.

http://www.whathifi.com/news/synology-adds-airplay-support-to-its-nas-devices

Anyone know if the free airplay upgrade for the Marantz is still available?

 

[Chr1s_J]

no i've never tried using a usb stick or hard-drive sorry

i use itunes on my pc laptop, connected to my marantz using airplay and use my android phone as a remote to play albums/tracks/playlists. it works faultlessly (now... originally airplay was flakey but that was due to my bt home hub).

i can change the systems volume etc using my phone too. the android app is simply called remote for itunes.

 

[Chr1s_J]

oh btw. my marantz came from richer sounds and the airplay upgrade was already unlocked when the system was delivered.

 

[paddyb]

no i've never tried using a usb stick or hard-drive sorry

i use itunes on my pc laptop, connected to my marantz using airplay and use my android phone as a remote to play albums/tracks/playlists. it works faultlessly (now... originally airplay was flakey but that was due to my bt home hub).

i can change the systems volume etc using my phone too. the android app is simply called remote for itunes.

Thanks Chris, that's good to know. I have a few more questions on this:

How much loss of quality is there when playing via airplay as opposed to CD or USB?

When turning the Marantz on, how long does it take for airplay and the Marantz to recognise each other?

What version of Windows are you using? There is a problem with airplay on Windows 8 at the moment, I'm getting the same problem:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4677339?start=0&tstart=0

When did you buy the Marantz? Richer Sounds say it comes with a sticker on the box with a code for the airplay upgrade, but I'm not 100% sure that it will still work.

 

[chebby]

How much loss of quality is there when playing via airplay as opposed to CD or USB?

Minimal difference between CD and AirPlay (using a rip of the same CD in Apple Lossless). So little it doesn't bother me at all. YMMV.

When turning the Marantz on, how long does it take for airplay and the Marantz to recognise each other?

Toggle to 'Network Standby' mode. (It stays set, no need to keep doing it.) This keeps it permanently connected even when using a non networked function - like CD or FM - or when the unit is in standby.

Then, when you press AirPlay on your iPhone (or iPad, or iPod touch or iTunes on your computer) and select the Marantz, it just takes a few seconds to power up and start playing.

Without being toggled to 'Network Standby', it can take about 30 seconds to make a new connection every time.

It is only consuming 0.4 watts in standby. So I leave it in that mode rather than full power off.

 

[paddyb]

Thanks Chebby. That's just about sealed the deal then, just need to decide on speakers now, as you will have seen from my questions on the BX2 thread. Fingers crossed that Apple sort this windows 8 iTunes issue soon.

I've now had a chance to demo The Marantz and the Ceol in Richer Sounds. I tried a USB HDD with Flac and Apple Lossless in both of them. The Marantz would only play the Flac files, and left small but discernable gaps on the mix albums I tried it with. The Denon played Flac gapplessly, but it wasn't possible to FF through the track, Apple Lossless had gaps in it. The two systems sounded different, both good but I thought the Marantz had the edge. It took maybe 2 minutes for the Maratnz to recognise the HDD (with about 150gb music on it), the Denon took a while as well but maybe picked it up a bit quicker. It wasn't too difficult navigating through the folders, but I did experience the problem with the Marantz that some people have mentioned where the music is sorted by track name rather than tack no. This wasn't the case for all albums though.

The Denon looked incredibly cheap next to the Marantz. Its a dust and fingerprint magnet, I kept brushing dust and hair off while listening to it a it just kept gathering again. Some may prefer its jet black look though and the iPod dock, Spotify and Wifi are draws as well.