Arcam CD5 CD player cannot do gapless playback (EDIT - software update now available - see post 86)

[Deleted member 201267]

Went to the website, and it's precisely as I guessed - copy the firmware update onto USB stick, plug in and away you go. The update is available on the CD5 page.

Do Arcam provide a free USB stick or do customers have to buy that too ?

 

[Oxfordian]

Are you saying that WHF were not aware that a CD player, they tested, did not have gapless playback ?!

What if the CD’s they tested the player on all had gaps? How would you know that there was an issue with a gapless CD is you didn’t play one in the review?

 

[Deleted member 201267]

What if the CD’s they tested the player on all had gaps? How would you know that there was an issue with a hapless CD is you didn’t play one in the review?

True...but if your writing a review and, giving the item an award, its a big oversight.

Both classical music and DJ mixes (very different genres) will highlight this flaw.

Anyway WHF is "the worlds #1 tech buyers guide" after all !

 

[Al ears]

What if the CD’s they tested the player on all had gaps? How would you know that there was an issue with a gapless CD is you didn’t play one in the review?

Precisely. Unless you are actually looking for this deficiency you might not even notice it.
I have no idea what music they use to review a device but, as I said, it took me ages to actually find a CD in my rather large collection that required gapless playback.
Possibly because I don't have any DJ mixes, which isn't something I would use to test a player anyway.

 

[Al ears]

Try listening to a DJ mix :-

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg4vA9s_kx0

No thanks, and stop promoting stuff on YouTube, you don't need the link as it is totally meaningless when we are talking about CDs.

 

[Al ears]

Maybe somebody can post a classical music piece then !

As I said, that was the genre of the only disc in my collection that required it, I don't need anyone posting anything.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

No thanks, and stop promoting stuff on YouTube, you don't need the link as it is totally meaningless when we are talking about CDs.

It was an example of a CD that requires gapless playback so not "meaningless". I own this CD and literally dozens more like it. Gapless playback is essential for such music...

 

[Oxfordian]

True...but if your writing a review and, giving the item an award, its a big oversight.

Both classical music and DJ mixes (very different genres) will highlight this flaw.

Anyway WHF is "the worlds #1 tech buyers guide" after all !

Over the years I have read good number of reviews on various items of hifi, one theme that became obvious fairly quickly was that reviewers had a number of LP’s that they used for their reviews, these LP’s were a constant and often quoted within the review, playing the whole LP wasn’t done, new music did get a look in but again maybe a track or two but not the whole album.

For me I would like to think that a review on a product has been carried out in a full and detailed way over a long period of time, I would hope that it is tested in different systems to verify output, with different types and styles of music to see if the product being tested has any quirks on a type or style of music.

But I am very aware that in many cases the reviewer works from home, has the product for maybe a day or two before it goes off to the next reviewer, time with these items is often tight with the completed review needing to be written up and posted for all to see in a very short timespan.

It is sadly quite possible that the reviewer played a selection of tracks from a handful of CD’s, was very impressed with the sound they heard and reported accordingly. This is why one review is never the best way of establishing if a product is right for you, as I said in a previous post who else reviewed this CDP and what score did they give it?

 

[Al ears]

Over the years I have read good number of reviews on various items of hifi, one theme that became obvious fairly quickly was that reviewers had a number of LP’s that they used for their reviews, these LP’s were a constant and often quoted within the review, playing the whole LP wasn’t done, new music did get a look in but again maybe a track or two but not the whole album.

For me I would like to think that a review on a product has been carried out in a full and detailed way over a long period of time, I would hope that it is tested in different systems to verify output, with different types and styles of music to see if the product being tested has any quirks on a type or style of music.

But I am very aware that in many cases the reviewer works from home, has the product for maybe a day or two before it goes off to the next reviewer, time with these items is often tight with the completed review needing to be written up and posted for all to see in a very short timespan.

It is sadly quite possible that the reviewer played a selection of tracks from a handful of CD’s, was very impressed with the sound they heard and reported accordingly. This is why one review is never the best way of establishing if a product is right for you, as I said in a previous post who else reviewed this CDP and what score did they give it?

My point exactly. If you need a certain facility from a bit of equipment you need to make sure this equipment offers that facility before parting with cash.
You cannot assume and you cannot rely on one review.
If you do you're a bit of a mug.

 

[Freddy58]

My point exactly. If you need a certain facility from a bit of equipment you need to make sure this equipment offers that facility before parting with cash.
You cannot assume and you cannot rely on one review.
If you do you're a bit of a mug.

Sorry to labour the point, but I don’t see gap less as a facility, to me it’s a basic requirement, a given. Would you accept a DVD player that kept pausing between chapters?

 

[Smokiro]

 

[Oxfordian]

View attachment 5560View attachment 5561

This needs to be in super large text why?

 

[Oxfordian]

Sorry to labour the point, but I don’t see gap less as a facility, to me it’s a basic requirement, a given. Would you accept a DVD player that kept pausing between chapters?

I agree, the CDP should have full functionality on all forms of CD playback straight out of the box, but it didn’t which is disappointing.

However, the maker of the CDP resolved the issue with a firmware update, excellent, problem resolved.

Reviewer could/should have picked this playback issue up before awarding the CDP a 5* review. Agreed.

But and this is important, how was the review carried out, over a period of days or just a few hours, how long did the reviewer have the CDP before it had to go back. Were a dozen tracks off half a dozen or so CD’s played or did the reviewer play whole CD’s over the course of a few days to test every aspect of the players performance? Probably the former.

I have had cameras from the big brands that have had recalls for the camera to be returned for a service upgrade as there was a major problem, I have had urgent firmware fixes to download and install to rectify focusing errors and exposure errors, all things that were picked up by people using their kit in a way that the maker hadn’t expected or tested for.

Sometimes makers get it wrong, sometimes reviewers don’t uncover a bug in the product they are reviewing. No it isn’t right but it happens, it’s been fixed so issue resolved.

 

[Revolutions]

The craziest part about this thread is that its got me considering demoing a £700 cd player

 

[davidf]

Ermm! If you review something you should be looking for issues with the systems as well as how good they perform. They appear to have tested using Hans Zimmer's Dark Knight CD, which as far as I am aware has gapless tracks.

Maybe they did flag it up with Arcam, and Arcam told them there’s a pending software update to fix it, so it wasn’t mentioned.

 

[podknocker]

Gapless playback with CDs has been there from the start and should be the default setting. Again, great customer service from Arcam has saved the day, but if I was looking for a new CD player, I still don't know which brand I would choose. This gapless issue isn't an Arcam problem, it's an industry wide problem, where CD players are produced and bought in much smaller numbers than 20 or 25 years ago and now, many companies releasing CD players seem to have lost the plot and I don't think any of them are experts in this field, unlike Sony, Philips, Marantz and Technics were back in the day. They ship in cheap, off the shelf transports and then build their units around these, perhaps not fully realising how important firmware is and it's the lack of integration between this and the hardware they buy in. Again, lets see Sony return to this sector and show them all how it's done. I bet there's someone at Sony shaking their head when they read these forum threads and possibly thinking these fancy CD players are built by clowns and idiots.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Over the years I have read good number of reviews on various items of hifi, one theme that became obvious fairly quickly was that reviewers had a number of LP’s that they used for their reviews, these LP’s were a constant and often quoted within the review, playing the whole LP wasn’t done, new music did get a look in but again maybe a track or two but not the whole album.

For me I would like to think that a review on a product has been carried out in a full and detailed way over a long period of time, I would hope that it is tested in different systems to verify output, with different types and styles of music to see if the product being tested has any quirks on a type or style of music.

But I am very aware that in many cases the reviewer works from home, has the product for maybe a day or two before it goes off to the next reviewer, time with these items is often tight with the completed review needing to be written up and posted for all to see in a very short timespan.

It is sadly quite possible that the reviewer played a selection of tracks from a handful of CD’s, was very impressed with the sound they heard and reported accordingly. This is why one review is never the best way of establishing if a product is right for you, as I said in a previous post who else reviewed this CDP and what score did they give it?

This is how WHF review kit so not a quick listen at home.

How we test and review products on What Hi-Fi?

Fair, honest and accurate reviews, brought to you by the most experienced team in the business

www.whathifi.com

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Maybe they did flag it up with Arcam, and Arcam told them there’s a pending software update to fix it, so it wasn’t mentioned.

If Arcam felt it was a problem that needed fixing then maybe they should not of released the product with this flaw in the first place ?

 

[Deleted member 201267]

Gapless playback with CDs has been there from the start and should be the default setting. Again, great customer service from Arcam has saved the day, but if I was looking for a new CD player, I still don't know which brand I would choose. This gapless issue isn't an Arcam problem, it's an industry wide problem, where CD players are produced and bought in much smaller numbers than 20 or 25 years ago and now, many companies releasing CD players seem to have lost the plot and I don't think any of them are experts in this field, unlike Sony, Philips, Marantz and Technics were back in the day. They ship in cheap, off the shelf transports and then build their units around these, perhaps not fully realising how important firmware is and it's the lack of integration between this and the hardware they buy in. Again, lets see Sony return to this sector and show them all how it's done. I bet there's someone at Sony shaking their head when they read these forum threads and possibly thinking these fancy CD players are built by clowns and idiots.

I have owned and seen (friends systems) about 12 different CD players, from different manufacturers at different price levels, and they all played gapless.

 

[podknocker]

Cyrus: 'We seem to have read issues with our £2500 CD transport'

Sony: 'Dunno Cy, we made a CD player in 1982 and it worked OK'

Etc.

 

[nopiano]

Cyrus: 'We seem to have read issues with our £2500 CD transport'

Sony: 'Dunno Cy, we made a CD player in 1982 and it worked OK'

Etc.

🤣🤣🤣

 

[manicm]

Do Arcam provide a free USB stick or do customers have to buy that too ?

SR-91, you don't have a USB stick laying around somewhere?

 

[Deleted member 201267]

SR-91, you don't have a USB stick laying around somewhere?

Honest answer is no as i don't use them !

Arcam should supply them, free of charge, ready loaded with the "update" to customers who have already purchased this CD player, or, simply of waited until this known bug was fixed before selling them.

 

[manicm]

My point exactly. If you need a certain facility from a bit of equipment you need to make sure this equipment offers that facility before parting with cash.
You cannot assume and you cannot rely on one review.
If you do you're a bit of a mug.

Disagree, one should rightfully assume a CDP should play gapless CDs, and I've only heard of two that didn't do it - the CD5 of-course, and Emotiva's one and only CDP.

Arcam have issued a fix, but it's otherwise unacceptable.

And if a manufacturer does not explicitly state this on their spec sheet then they're being DISHOHEST.

I'll give you one example - an ultra high end company of optical vinyl cartridges were open about the fact that they won't play coloured vinyl records.

Gapless CD playback should be 100% expected from consumers - and if it can't then the manufacturer should explicitly say so.

 

[Smokiro]

This needs to be in super large text why?

Did I had a problem with your writing long phrase? Remind me because I dont remember.

And if you dont have valuble argument blame the shoes.