Arcam CD5 CD player cannot do gapless playback (EDIT - software update now available - see post 86)

[Smokiro]

Exactly, and you've made your point - so please feel free to participate in forum life, but a stream of posts rubbishing one manufacturer won't be allowed as its reliability doesn't seem an issue for the forum's other users. The lack of gapless playback is a major oversight by Arcam and the magazine, but it relates to functionality, not reliability.

(And just so we're clear, the moderators are nothing to do with the magazine or website, we're just ordinary Joes.)

You both contradict yourself.

If you think that post approach of any brand to relalibility or customer service doesnt give valuable image of future products or experience.

Come on that would even understand Belarusan modarators.

 

[12th Monkey]

Come on that would even understand Belarusan modarators.

If you are implying that there is anything awry with the people of a specific country, you are on dodgy ground regarding forum rules. Be careful please.

 

[davidf]

It does sort of feel like maybe they rushed it to market without enabling that feature, probably because they wanted to get the new radia line out onto the market before the holidays.

Some products do get rushed out around the end of summer to be included for WHF’s awards - if the product isn’t reviewed, it won’t get considered, and having to wait another year might be too late for the product.

 

[Smokiro]

If as you say was rushed. I think what else was rushed and it can be a quiet few things.
They propably were very rushed with mine gear.

I like how people are apologetic. I also used to imagine those companies like sort of NASA level that is what they want us to perceive but in reality is closer to Breaking Bad RV.
Shed somewhere and you lucky if they have one person to pick up the phone call or email back.

 

[12th Monkey]

reality is closer to Breaking Bad RV.

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. This is Arcam's HQ:

Home

Last year Arcam celebrated 40 years in the hi-fi and home cinema business, so we decided to pay a visit to the company’s Cambridge HQ to check out its brand-new listening rooms and find out what it has in store for the next 40 years.

www.whathifi.com

I know you have grievances with Arcam regarding reliability - you've clearly been unlucky. But that doesn't give you licence to make up whatever you like about it or others.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. This is Arcam's HQ:

View attachment 5531

Home

Last year Arcam celebrated 40 years in the hi-fi and home cinema business, so we decided to pay a visit to the company’s Cambridge HQ to check out its brand-new listening rooms and find out what it has in store for the next 40 years.

www.whathifi.com

I know you have grievances with Arcam regarding reliability - you've clearly been unlucky. But that doesn't give you licence to make up whatever you like about it or others.

So they spent their budget on a swanky looking headquarters... instead of engineering a CD player that has gapless playback !

 

[12th Monkey]

So they spent their budget on a swanky looking headquarters... instead of engineering a CD player that has gapless playback !

Damned if you do...

Aaanyway, the thread is about a lack of gapless, which we know has been addressed (even if it should never have happened in the first place). As per rules, back on topic - though frankly I can't imagine what remains to be said...

 

[DCarmi]

So they spent their budget on a swanky looking headquarters... instead of engineering a CD player that has gapless playback !

All sorts of stuff gets released with bugs and defects. Decent companies will fix issues and do so fairly quickly.
In this case, Arcam obviously rushed out the CD player, to match its new amp range and try to catch either the end of year awards or winter sales or both.

I don't condone Arcam releasing stuff, I suspect they may have known it had a firmware defect before a fix was available, but I understand why.

I'm more critical of reviewers who really should pick this sort of thing up. If the reviewers did their jobs properly this behaviour would, be less likely to occur.

I'm willing to bet that there is not a streamer out there that won't get or should get a bug fix. Google are still patching bugs in 2nd generation Chromecast devices, for example. These devices were released 8 years ago. This is not a criticism of Google, it is good that they still support such devices.

The biggest issue, for me, is that patching something that is not internet connected, like a CD player, is different to patching a connected device like a Chromecast or Wiim or any other streamer. And that said, seemingly only a limited number of CD5s were actually shipped without gapless playback.

 

[Al ears]

All sorts of stuff gets released with bugs and defects. Decent companies will fix issues and do so fairly quickly.
In this case, Arcam obviously rushed out the CD player, to match its new amp range and try to catch either the end of year awards or winter sales or both.

I don't condone Arcam releasing stuff, I suspect they may have known it had a firmware defect before a fix was available, but I understand why.

I'm more critical of reviewers who really should pick this sort of thing up. If the reviewers did their jobs properly this behaviour would, be less likely to occur.

I'm willing to bet that there is not a streamer out there that won't get or should get a bug fix. Google are still patching bugs in 2nd generation Chromecast devices, for example. These devices were released 8 years ago. This is not a criticism of Google, it is good that they still support such devices.

The biggest issue, for me, is that patching something that is not internet connected, like a CD player, is different to patching a connected device like a Chromecast or Wiim or any other streamer. And that said, seemingly only a limited number of CD5s were actually shipped without gapless playback.

Interesting you mention bugs and defects when I can find no reference to gapless playback when it comes to Redbook Standards....

 

[davidf]

I'm more critical of reviewers who really should pick this sort of thing up. If the reviewers did their jobs properly this behaviour would, be less likely to occur.

I'm willing to bet that there is not a streamer out there that won't get or should get a bug fix. Google are still patching bugs in 2nd generation Chromecast devices, for example. These devices were released 8 years ago. This is not a criticism of Google, it is good that they still support such devices.

Maybe the reviewers were told that a software update was coming to fix gapless playback.

Streamers by their very nature need continuing firmware updates to keep them working with every changing apps, whether that’s the likes of Spotify and TIDAL etc, or Google/Microsoft etc for network streaming/GoogleHome etc. Any streamer released even 5 years ago is unlikely to work flawlessly. It’s an ever changing landscape. Some companies farm software out to third parties, others may have their own on site engineers ready to deal with this sort of thing. This is why some manufacturers are incorporating streaming platforms from the likes of Bluesound and Lumin.

 

[nopiano]

Interesting you mention bugs and defects when I can find no reference to gapless playback when it comes to Redbook Standards....

I don't imagine RIAA standard for LPs mentioned it either! 😉

But seriously, who would imagine anybody would desire a CD player that would do anything other than simply play what was encoded on the disc? Nobody ever needed added pauses? (An exception might be recording your own CDR and creating track breaks, but that possibility came many years after the launch)

 

[Al ears]

I don't imagine RIAA standard for LPs mentioned it either! 😉

But seriously, who would imagine anybody would desire a CD player that would do anything other than simply play what was encoded on the disc? Nobody ever needed added pauses? (An exception might be recording your own CDR and creating track breaks, but that possibility came many years after the launch)

A CD disc is recorded as a continuous stream unlike vinyl, the track stop/ starts are added in the TOC so it appears to be be how that disc is actually processed rather than a manufacturer playback option.

 

[nopiano]

A CD disc is recorded as a continuous stream unlike vinyl, the track stop/ starts are added in the TOC so it appears to be be how that disc is actually processed rather than a manufacturer playback option.

Well, vinyl is a continuous stream too, surely? The only concession to convenience being the visibly wider silent grooves between tracks to help with selection midway through a side.

Some CDs have longer pauses between tracks than others. When it’s a couple of symphonies (say) on one CD there are individual movement breaks, plus a longer one between the two symphonies themselves. The CD player should follow those faithfully, without an ‘opinion’ of its own!

 

[bristollinnet]

This is something of a depressing thread - not so much focused on Arcam albeit they do appear to be serial offenders - but rather on the lack of any obvious response from WHF.

A simple message from them that in future they will routinely check for gapless playback on both streamers and CDs on any future product reviews would be most welcome.

 

[James105]

Well, vinyl is a continuous stream too, surely? The only concession to convenience being the visibly wider silent grooves between tracks to help with selection midway through a side.

Some CDs have longer pauses between tracks than others. When it’s a couple of symphonies (say) on one CD there are individual movement breaks, plus a longer one between the two symphonies themselves. The CD player should follow those faithfully, without an ‘opinion’ of its own!

Then there is this

View: https://youtu.be/Tf5XgkG0JfI?si=iuiNIq3H-CaAdQ3_

 

[DCarmi]

Interesting you mention bugs and defects when I can find no reference to gapless playback when it comes to Redbook Standards....

If a system or device does not meet user expectation, the respectfully I'd suggest this is a defect.

If the standard does not include gapless playback then this would also be contrary to user expectation and normally the standard would be reviewed and updated or violated.

Most direct access system such a CD use an index system to locate start of "tracks" recorded in a continuous stream. If you need a gap, the you record a gap.

 

[Freddy58]

It’s good that there’s a fix for the issue. However, I would expect any device/appliance to work straight out of the box, not to be faced with having to fix it myself. Not everyone is tech savvy, indeed not everyone has internet access. There appears to me that there’s too much of this going on these days, with the customer being expected to sort out problems after purchase.

 

[Smokiro]

I'm sorry, but that's rubbish. This is Arcam's HQ:

View attachment 5531

Home

Last year Arcam celebrated 40 years in the hi-fi and home cinema business, so we decided to pay a visit to the company’s Cambridge HQ to check out its brand-new listening rooms and find out what it has in store for the next 40 years.

www.whathifi.com

I know you have grievances with Arcam regarding reliability - you've clearly been unlucky. But that doesn't give you licence to make up whatever you like about it or others.

You not going to impress Europeans with not insulated brick finish. Maybe that is why theirs AVR overheat as they used them as heaters.

 

[12th Monkey]

You not going to impress Europeans with not insulated brick finish. Maybe that is why theirs AVR overheat as they used them as heaters.

You're going off topic again. Please read forum rules. You've been asked to do this previously, so do so now. And the anti-Arcam tirade - enough please. You've aired your grievances.

 

[Smokiro]

You're going off topic again. Please read forum rules. You've been asked to do this previously, so do so now. And the anti-Arcam tirade - enough please. You've aired your grievances.

Thank you

 

[Gray]

A CD disc is recorded as a continuous stream unlike vinyl, the track stop/ starts are added in the TOC so it appears to be be how that disc is actually processed rather than a manufacturer playback option.

True, the track increments are down to info on the disc.

But manufacturers need to ensure that, where audio on the disc is continuous, then so is playback - without inserting any audible gap.
If any player can do that, they all can (and should).

 

[Gray]

I worked sales for 15 years. So yes I'm very intimately congruent with customer relations.

...but you would happily tell this customer that the lack of gapless playback on his CD player:
"Goes to show that you shouldn't be listening to opera CDs"😆

Never mind sales, you're wasted not being in comedy.

 

[podknocker]

Interesting you mention bugs and defects when I can find no reference to gapless playback when it comes to Redbook Standards....

Optical disc recording modes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm assuming gap free CDs (disc at once) are given gaps, if the CD player has incorrect firmware. It doesn't understand the CD and adds gaps between tracks, when it sees where the tracks are in the TOC? I can't see recordings with seamless movements (classical music) being mastered in track at once format, or perhaps they are, in error, hence gaps in your classical music. Both methods are part of the overall CD standard, but it could be the mastering and/or the player adding gaps. I would love a better understanding TBH. Can anyone elaborate?

 

[Al ears]

CD players have had no problem doing this since 1982???

Class....yes I know but how exactly is it done was my question, assuming you don't know.
And yes, my Oppo does indeed do gapless (actually found one CD that requires it) but is that a function of the player itself or the way the disc itself has been formatted?

 

[Deleted member 201267]

I wonder what Arcam would make of this thread ?!