Arcam CD5 CD player cannot do gapless playback (EDIT - software update now available - see post 86)

[nopiano]

Whilst I can understand how you lead one movement or travo into the next on a vinyl LP I am not exactly sure how this is managed on digital data like a CD.
Anybody expand on this?

I’ve read this years ago, but don’t remember the details. We are old enough - sorry, well I am! - to remember Index marks on early CDs. They were placed mid-movement, for example, to show transition from introduction to trio, or whatever. Almost forgotten about them. But track markers often occur while the music plays on, for example in Rachmaninoff‘s Paganini Rhapsody which has numerous variations.

Back to the OP though, this is simply a massive design flaw. I thought it a weakness in the £30 Chromecast Audio puck which I could overlook at its bargain price. But on a new CD player it’s appalling, and WHF should update their review pending any upgrade.

 

[Freddy58]

Whilst I can understand how you lead one movement or travo into the next on a vinyl LP I am not exactly sure how this is managed on digital data like a CD.
Anybody expand on this?

I have no real idea, so I’ll take a guess. I’m imagining that there’s a digital marker to say it’s moved on to the next track, as seen on the display, which most CDP’s can transit smoothly as intended. In this instance it’s sounding like it’s causing a momentary glitch.

 

[Vincent Kars]

To the best of my knowledge a CD contains a spiral "groove" from inside to outside and along this groove the data is written. Then there is a TOC telling where each track starts.
Gapless by design!

 

[WayneKerr]

The more I read this thread the more abysmal and shocking this is. Why release a product to market when it's not ready... have we become beta-testers with our hard-earned cash?

This is what forums such as these are good for - spreading the word! I think this would put me off Arcam for life!

Didn't Arcam have software issues with their AV amps a few years years ago?

 

[podknocker]

This genuinely angers me. Seriously. I had a Rotel RCD02 and RA02 in silver, with HDCD support and nice blue LEDs and these devices were used up to 8 hours a day, for 10 years, before the poor CD transport threw in the towel. Fantastic build and sound quality and they were exceptional devices. I wish I could buy them new again, with the same lifespan. If Rotel could do this decades ago, then they and other companies can do the same now. I know anything that spins and has bits of plastic will fail eventually, but modern kit can't get out of the gates. There has been a very noticeable change in build quality over the years and I don't think companies care, or expect their products to last a few years, never mind a decade. They expect consumers to throw away their kit and upgrade at very short intervals and companies cross their fingers and hope nothing gets returned in the meantime. I had a NAD T585 disc player and it sounded amazing, with great Sony chips and stuff inside, but the transport failed under warranty and then again, just outside warranty. It's shocking now and I really couldn't choose a CD player for extended use, if I needed one. It's old technology and should be honed and reliable and customers should have confidence in these things, knowing their purchase will give a decent lifespan, without issues. I think I've been unlucky with my CD players, but I do hear many reports of expensive players failing after 2 or 3 years and it's totally unacceptable. It's mass market throw away junk now. I could never afford the expensive Sony ES players and I wish I could have bought one, because many of these are still going strong and they sound superb. It's ironic that one of the inventors of CD no longer needs or wants to produce these devices and other companies have been left to it, with a royalty paid to Sony and Philips obviously. I sometimes wish Sony would return to the CD player sector and show everyone how it should be done, like in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Al ears]

CD players have had no problem doing this since 1982???

you mean some CD players? Did they all handle gapless playback?

 

[Freddy58]

you mean some CD players? Did they all handle gapless playback?

I would think that that’s an unanswerable question? Certainly in my own very limited experience, this is the first time I’ve heard of this happening.

 

[nopiano]

I would think that that’s an unanswerable question? Certainly in my own very limited experience, this is the first time I’ve heard of this happening.

Me too. I’d never heard of ‘gapless’ anything until streaming arrived. Then it seemed to describe an album with tracks that followed from one another on the original LP did exactly the same when streamed. It was the device that caused it, not the recording.

I vaguely recall some device or software that deliberately inserted breaks if you required it, maybe to record as discrete tracks on a mini disc, recordable CD or as files on a USB stick. But CD players always played continuously from start to finish.

 

[abacus]

CD players are pretty dumb, so will just play what is on the disc, however some recording programs actually insert gaps between all tracks, so the CD player will play these also. (There are plenty of free burning programs out there that will burn the disc as gapless, so choose carefully)
If you are just playing files from the CD (FLAC MP3 etc.) then it will be up to the software/firmware as to whether it supports gapless playback or not.

Bill

 

[DCarmi]

My current device was a cheap and discounted one and the Arcam was on my list of potential upgrades, however, not being gapless would be an deciding factor against such a purchase. (I've already started the persuasion process on the "Other Half".)

I've not seen any other reports of this issue but maybe this is due to the unit being so new.

Perhaps a question in Arcam support form might be in order? I'd suggest listing it as a fault and see how they reply. Either that or return it, whence it came.

 

[matthewpianist]

The inability to provide gapless playback is, quite simply, totally unacceptable.

I have very eclectic musical tastes. Some albums and recordings have no need for gapless playback, with each song or piece standing alone. A great deal of progressive rock and classical music, for example, is written to segue seamlessly from one track or movement to another, and any playback medium worth its salt should respect this. The move into the final movement of Beethoven's 5th symphony, referenced earlier in this thread, is one of the most glorious moments in all music, and reproduction of such should respect this entirely. There's countless other examples across different genres.

I remember gapless support being a big step forward for a firmware upgrade on Squeezebox devices around 15 years ago, but it's been resolved more slowly on some streaming platforms over the past few years. DTS Play-Fi, used by manufacturers including Arcam and Audiolab, has been one of the slowest to get its act together in this respect whilst BluOS, HEOS and MusicCast have supported it for some time.

CD is, and always has been, capable of gapless playback. I have old Sony and Arcam CD players (Arcam's original Alpha) that have no issues in this regard, and I never had this problem on any CD player, including an Arcam CD73T and CD18. I believe it has been an issue on the Arcam CDS50, and Arcam have had moire than long enough to correct this and ensure it isn't an issue on the new CD5. It's the servo/firmware that is the problem, and products shouldn't be released with the promise that a future firmware update will resolve an issue which shouldn't be there in the first place. Get the product right BEFORE you take customers' money. The basics should be right, out of the box!!

It's something else which makes me glad I now have the system I have. It works flawlessly, and sounds as good as (and in some respects better than) any expensive kit I've owned.

 

[matthewpianist]

To add, I seem to recall Arcam having a history of such issues, including on past AV products with which purchasers ended up effectively being development mules rather than happy users.

 

[DCarmi]

I'd suggest listing it as a fault and see how they reply.

Sorry, I missed that the OP had already contacted Arcam and they said a firmware update would be released soon.
1. A basic fault such as this should not happen, if there were proper testing done by Arcam.
2. What Hifi and other reviewers should have picked this up, if they also did proper testing.

Point 1 should definitely apply if Arcam had the same issue with the CDS50, as @mathewpianist implies.

Given this is not a connected device, there will be many people who simply will not apply the firmware patch, because it will doubtless involve messing around with USB sticks.

 

[podknocker]

Given this is not a connected device, there will be many people who simply will not apply the firmware patch, because it will doubtless involve messing around with USB sticks.

Exactly. I got a servo update on CD from IAG, but I needed to download a firmware update and stick it on a USB stick. The faff was beyond belief and I work in IT.

 

[manicm]

you mean some CD players? Did they all handle gapless playback?

YES, ALL

 

[Al ears]

YES, ALL

Apart from some Arcam then, it would appear.... Odd.

 

[SteveH72]

Reinforces my longly held belief that newer isn’t always better…..

 

[ScarboroughMark]

A couple of more points about the Arcam CD5 which you might like to bear in mind if you're still thinking of buying it. The remote is very minimal with no instructions on how to use it to access any features other than very basic ones. You just have to press away and see what you can discover (which might be 'fun' if you like being frustrated). Also, there doesn't seem to be any Search facility for within tracks (i.e. >> or <<). Remember: this CD player is a WHF 'Best mid-range CD Player' with 5 stars for 'Features'.

 

[Deleted member 201267]

A couple of more points about the Arcam CD5 which you might like to bear in mind if you're still thinking of buying it. The remote is very minimal with no instructions on how to use it to access any features other than very basic ones. You just have to press away and see what you can discover (which might be 'fun' if you like being frustrated). Also, there doesn't seem to be any Search facility for within tracks (i.e. >> or <<). Remember: this CD player is a WHF 'Best mid-range CD Player' with 5 stars for 'Features'.

This CD Player seems like a pain in the arse.

 

[podknocker]

This CD Player sems like a pain in the arse.

Another Really Crap Audio Machine. I know I know!

 

[podknocker]

If CD still has a few years left in it, why don't these companies really stretch their ingenuity and make sure their players are amazing to use and free from unwanted 'features' before release?

Instead they overcharge for their CD players and pretend this is necessary, as it's some fancy new technology, which has not been around 41 years and worked perfectly for most companies, especially Sony, donkey's years ago.

I'm very wary of new CD players, mainly the expensive ones, because apart from overengineered casework and a fancy badge, it's 41 year old Red Book spec hardware and is probably using a £30 transport.

 

[Freddy58]

Never had any of this nonsense with vinyl. I’ll get my coat >>> 😁

 

[matthewpianist]

If CD still has a few years left in it, why don't these companies really stretch their ingenuity and make sure their players are amazing to use and free from unwanted 'features' before release?

Instead they overcharge for their CD players and pretend this is necessary, as it's some fancy new technology, which has not been around 41 years and worked perfectly for most companies, especially Sony, donkey's years ago.

I'm very wary of new CD players, mainly the expensive ones, because apart from overengineered casework and a fancy badge, it's 41 year old Red Book spec hardware and is probably using a £30 transport.

The (now discontinued) Rega Apollo used a cheap Sanyo mech, off the shelf. Rega apparently developed their own buffering servo system, and the casework had a quality feel overall, but was it really worth over £500?

 

[podknocker]

The (now discontinued) Rega Apollo used a cheap Sanyo mech, off the shelf. Rega apparently developed their own buffering servo system, and the casework had a quality feel overall, but was it really worth over £500?

You and I both know the answer to that!

Expensive casework and design, but still generic CD player stuff inside.

 

[abacus]

You and I both know the answer to that!

Expensive casework and design, but still generic CD player stuff inside.

You don't need an expensive transport providing you do multiple reads to make sure the data retrieved is 100% correct, combine this with a large enough buffer to store enough data before transmission and you have bit perfect results. (This is why a computer with the appropriate software can play back and burn/convert anything bit perfectly)

Bill