Can anyone help me spend £4K mabe a little more

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Please help - I've refered to THE bible WHIFI - I still can't e up my mind!!!

I have £4K maybe a bit more. This must include CD, amp, speakers, cables etc.

The only info - It's quite a small room, concidered stand mounters. I have quite a varied taste in music - mainly, electronic music.

Thats all I'm going to give you HELP!!!!
 
A

Anonymous

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Well, if it were me, I'd start with the following:

Speakers - Spendor SA1, including stands £1500, PMC GB1i £1300, Spendor A5 £1500
Subs (to go with stand mounters) - REL Acoustic R-305 £800, Monitor Audio RS W12 £750, Dali S1.5 £1000, B&W PV1 £950
CDPs - Arcam A38 CDP £1000, Cyrus CD8SE £1100,
Amps - ATC SIA 2-150 £2200, Primare I30 £1500, Musical Fidelity A5.5 £1600, Roksan Caspian M Pre £1250+Power £950, Primare Pre30 £1200+Power A30.2 £1200

There's a lot of other options out there, particularly if you consider used. You need to challenge some dealers and enjoy their responses!
 

d_a_n1979

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See; for me and that budget it would have to be:

Cyrus Pre, power and 8SE CDP (Pre vs2 - Pre Amplifier, X Power - Power Amplifier) along with PSX-R's and the Spendor A5 or SA1 speakers on super dreadnought stands along with Cyrus interconnects and speaker cable.

I think that just because you have such a big budget that you should spend it all; it can always be a good thing to come in well under budget and have £££ left for future upgrades :)
 
A

Anonymous

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This isn't a plug for Superfi by the way !

This is my set up - I have the Caspian amp and bought the DV135 from Superfi for £50 more !!

If they have any of these in stock seriously consider it as it is an absolutely cracking CD/SCAD player and for £246 it an absolute steal - oh and it plays DVD's !

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/4175

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3296

http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/4039

I'm in the process of replacing my speakers and have demo'd a few different ones. The M16i sound fantastic with this set up. Add a Chord Chameleon Silver Plus interconnect, Chord Carnival Silver Screen speaker cable and a decent mains block and you have a very good set up and approx £1,500 change - then blow the rest on music !
 

AEJim

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Personally I'd assign more of the budget to the amp/speakers than the source - Speakers incur a fair deal of material costs so the more you can allocate from your budget to them the better the quality you should get (was trying to write "should" in italics but can't get the system to work - or upload a profile pic for that matter - any ideas Ed?? ;)). Obviously I can't comment too much on specific models as I'd be seen to have a bias...

For the amp I'd happily recommend the AVI Lab series integrated (£1500) - inherently neutral and with massive power reserves (400w+ into 2ohm (driven pair of speakers) - for those trickier loads). All you can ask for in an amplifier really. I really don't see the point in low power/current reserves in an amp since you will get clipping on peaks and be working it harder at normal listening levels - headroom is a very nice trait to have. I use one of these at home in preference to anything else anywhere near the price.

For front-end perhaps I'm being controversial saying you don't need to spend as much - but DAC technology has come pretty far since CD was launched. In the office our main CD source is an old Denon which was £50 off Ebay, some tweaks done by R&D (mainly removal of safety and R/F shielding components - not recommended for home use!) and it performs better than any CD player from a major manufacturer I've heard without getting into stratospheric £'s (We've tried to upgrade to a more respectable looking system believe me - Performance comes first though!) We do use a Naim Supernait as our main test system amp at least... Basically you can get very respectable performance and detail retrieval for very reasonable money now. Rega make some of the better players I've heard.

Obviously throw some reasonable cables and stands into the mix (bi-wire will be speaker dependant, the crossover's in some speakers will work better with bi-wire, in others you're better of spending a little more on a higher quality single run). Stands also are speaker/room dependant - light n' open work best with some combo's while mass-heavy is preferable with others - trial and error at home if you can get a loan of gear is the way to go.ÿ

That's just my t'pennies worth!
 
T

the record spot

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Just out of interest James, and sidelining that your representing a speaker manufacturer, why would you choose amp or speakers over source? I've always gone with the latter, but for digital (CD in my case) many people, including a few well respected dealers in Edinburgh suggest the amplification is the way to go. As a result, confused! Not looking to change any of my kit but interested in the rationale.
 

caddyhound

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AVI have stopped making separates.According to them a Macbook ( or Macmini), and external HD feeding Apple lossless into a pair of AVI ADM9.1's and subwoofer outperforms their seperate CD,pre and power into their two or three way speakers.As a bonus you get Internet radio as well if you have a wireless set up on your internet connection.The computer side of the Macbook is a bonus.Curiously enough with Stands and cables this set up fits your budget perfectly.If it does outperform separates and speakers costing upwards of £6000 it would be a bargain.Getting to demo the set up is a more difficult one but if you get to hear one please let us know how it sounds.
 
A

Anonymous

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If you're quick, there's an Alchemist Product 8 integrated amp for sale on eBay for a few hundred quid.

This amp is truly awesome and is in the best Alchemist tradition. In my view, it would spank any amps on the market under £2k
 

AEJim

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Well, generally speaking - speakers use more actual material costs in their make up than a CD player would, so the more you spend the more you should get for your money (quality-wise as well as quantity-wise). Whereas the difference in say, a £400 CD player and a £1400 one will be far closer, most likely more down to case-work that any drastic differences in its make up. Sound quality can be as much down to component choice and taste of the designer than cost of parts - many of the "budget" CD players out there are very well designed pieces of kit so the argument to spend more (without going very high-end) is less obvious than say going from a vinyl-wrapped chip-board speaker with paper drivers to a real wood veneered, MDF cabinet speaker with kevlar/alloy drivers. The cabinet and drivers having a more profound effect on sound quality than the casework on a CD player, the visual impact of the speakers on your living room also being more obvious so better finishing IS a factor!

There are always exceptions to every rule but by-and-large there are, for example, only a couple of CD transport suppliers around, most will use these same components regardless of price. Many arguments can be made against this and there are always other factors - smaller, low-volume companies will have to sell units at a higher price to recoup R&D costs as well as their lower initial buy-in volumes but they may make a sound that you prefer! The argument to spend most on source made more sense when turntables were the primary source of choice - their mechanical nature (rather than electronic) meant better build and materials had a drastic impact on the sound. This is not to say turntables are still not the primary source for many!!

Amplifiers should offer good, clean, undistorted power at your preferred listening levels in your room - speaker sensitivity and size of room will be important in this too. Another (slightly controversial!) point about amps is that you should, in most cases go for as powerful as you can afford, power costs money so therefore you should allocate a good chunk of budget to the amp. Bare figures don't always tell you everything either - much like horsepower/torque in a car - and amp may be rated at "200 watts" but have a weedy amount of current delivery, falling apart driving anything but headphones... At the same time you can have a fairly low wattage rated amp with a very good power supply (a'la Naim) which will be comfortable driving fridge-sized speakers with 15" drive units. Character of sound is an important factor but then good amps, in theory shouldn't really have a character of their own!! (in reality very few manage this of course!).

So this is all just my opinion based on my experience, generally I'd split the budget in favour of amp/speakers over CD, but then there may be a special model you just have to have... Others will disagree entirely, that's the beauty of working in a subjective industry where your own ears/opinions are going to differ wildy from the next guy's!ÿ
 

Ajani

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synergy2k3:
Please help - I've refered to THE bible WHIFI - I still can't e up my mind!!!

I have £4K maybe a bit more. This must include CD, amp, speakers, cables etc.

The only info - It's quite a small room, concidered stand mounters. I have quite a varied taste in music - mainly, electronic music.

Thats all I'm going to give you HELP!!!!

With that kind of money you can get an excellent setup... so your first step should be to go to as many HiFi shops as you can and audition combos in your price range...

If I was putting together a combo for that money, I'd opt for Monitor Audio GS20 Towers £1.7K, Musical Fidelity A1 or XT100 Integrated Amp £800 - £1K and either the matching CD Players or more likely a DAC and Squeezebox combo...
 
A

Anonymous

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I was in a similar position a while ago, (not quite as large a budget though).

Percieved wisdom from magazines and dealers at the time was spend most of your budget on the source (sh*t in sh*t out principle).

Being young and stupid, with more money than sense, I went through quite a few combinations with expensive CD players, expensive amps (including a well rated £1k+ Exposure amp) fed into budget speakers, starting with Wharfedale Diamonds and ending up with Mission 780's. ÿThis sounded good, but was totally trounced by the sytem I end up with which was a mid range Marantz CD (CD63SE), top quality budget amp (Pioneer A400) and very expensive speakers (Monitor Audio 20SE).

If I remember rightly the budget split was £300 source, £240 amp, £1,800 speakers (+QED interconnect and Monster cable)

Since then I have been completely happy and never felt the need for a single upgrade in close to fifteen years.

Morale, don't be afraid to turn percieved wisdom on it's head. ÿTry things out, including some wacky combinations, you may find something that suits you perfectlyÿ
 
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Anonymous

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For AEJim,

Sorry I'm veering off the topic but I'm going to buy new speakers in the summer and have always loved the AE1's since first hearing them in '88 (sadly out of my price range then). I now want the best speakers I can afford (around £1,500) which brings the AE1 Mk III into contention but would the Roksan Caspian Integrated be able to run them ? It's rated at 85w at 8 ohms and I don't listen to music at high volumes and also have no plans to buy a power amp etc as I like my set up the way it is however there's little point in treating myself to the AE1's if the amp can't do them justice. Any thoughts ?
 

up the music

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I know the AE1 Mk3 's are a complete overhaul of the MK2 (which I use) but....

When I got the Mk2's I was using a 60w Naim 62/140 pre/power setup. Even though I very rarely run above a couple of watts, there was somethng lethargic about the sound, dynamics were lacking. I currently use a pair of (80wpc each I think)Exposure's biamped which have a similar overall sound to the Naims and things have opened up dynamically but with the same warmth.

I also have a 200wpc Rotel RB991 and that really makes the most of these speakers dynamics. A very big sound indeed, even at low levels.

I don't understand it but massive unused headroom does seem to be good for them.
 

up the music

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I'd certainly keep the Mk3 on the shortlist with the Caspian though. Give it a whirl.

Like you I heard the Mk1 in the 80's and had a vivid mression of their sound lodged in my brain. It was always a drream.
Then when they discontinued the Mk2 I bought their trade show pair off their website. Happy, happy, happy.
 

AEJim

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Spacehopper:
For AEJim,

Sorry I'm veering off the topic but I'm going to buy new speakers in the summer and have always loved the AE1's since first hearing them in '88 (sadly out of my price range then). I now want the best speakers I can afford (around £1,500) which brings the AE1 Mk III into contention but would the Roksan Caspian Integrated be able to run them ? It's rated at 85w at 8 ohms and I don't listen to music at high volumes and also have no plans to buy a power amp etc as I like my set up the way it is however there's little point in treating myself to the AE1's if the amp can't do them justice. Any thoughts ?

ÿ

I've heard the AE1 Classics (basically the mk1 you heard) on a Caspian and they actually worked fairly well - we had the volume at about 3/4 of the way round at one point and there wasn't any audible distortion/clipping! That said, you will be able to get more out of them, even at low volumes with a more powerful amp - it's to do with control of the driver. More power = more control = faster stopping and starting of notes, tighter, cleaner, less "wooly" sound.

The AE1 mkIII's may not be the best pairing as they go far deeper in the bass than the mk1 - that lack of grip on the driver would result in them hitting the end-stops far more readilly than with a high power amp (a common misconception is that using a more powerful amp will damage a speaker more easily, in reality the opposite is often true!).

The AE1 mkIII SE (you may have meant this model in any case!) would actually make more sense as due to the simplified crossover it's actually easier to drive than either of the other models, they sound perfectly acceptable on our old Audiolab 8000a (60watt-ish) in our second dem room (we use a variety of systems/rooms in testing) - as ever you would benefit from more power but I can't see any issues in pairing them with a Caspian, character-wise I think the two would gel fairly well too!

As ever your best bet is to try and audition a pair in your room/system - contact your nearest dealer and these things can be arranged!

Cheers,

ÿ

Jim.ÿ
 
A

Anonymous

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Thanks Jim, I think I will need to have a serious re-think then.
 

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