Thompsonuxb said:
Given people refer to night and day differences, I don't think you could get much more of a difference, so getting a guitar to sound like a banjo would be easy in comparison
Given people refer to night and day differences, I don't think you could get much more of a difference, so getting a guitar to sound like a banjo would be easy in comparison
And that's it right there Cheeseboy, it's relative -the small difference can and do affect our enjoyment in a big way.
When one hears a fatiguing amp compared to a 'nice' amp its subtle differences that seperate them.
To the casual listener it's meh.... To the more discerning listener it's a big deal.
When one hears a fatiguing amp compared to a 'nice' amp its subtle differences that seperate them.
To the casual listener it's meh.... To the more discerning listener it's a big deal.
cheeseboy said:Thompsonuxb said:
Given people refer to night and day differences, I don't think you could get much more of a difference, so getting a guitar to sound like a banjo would be easy in comparison
not trying to bump the thread .... but I found some info on cables (from Atlas Cables) that I found interesting (there are a few pages so click 'next page' on the bottom):
http://www.atlascables.com/conductor-types.html
http://www.atlascables.com/conductor-types.html
iMark
Well-known member
Here's a quote from the Atlas Cable company website. Very scientific.
"The purity of a conductor is determined by the purity of the ingot from which it is manufactured. The purity of the ingot is roughly related to the number of grain boundaries present in the final conductor.
Conductor purity is specified in nines (N). For example, a 99.99% pure ingot will produce a four nines (4N) pure conductor, a 99.9997% pure ingot will produce a five nines (5N) pure conductor and so on. The highest conductor purity currently available is 7N (99.99999% pure).
Conductors used in Atlas quality OFC audio cables have a purity of 6N. Atlas OCC conductors have an equivalent purity of 7N."
If you look at this example it is very similar to claims from homeopaths. The stronger the dilution, the better it will work.
It is simply not possible that raising the "purity" from 99,99% pure ingot to 99,99999% pure ingot can have any significant effect on the electric pulses that go through the cable and therefore the sound coming out of the equipment connected by any of these cables.
People that claim that they can hear such minute differences have supernatural hearing powers.
"The purity of a conductor is determined by the purity of the ingot from which it is manufactured. The purity of the ingot is roughly related to the number of grain boundaries present in the final conductor.
Conductor purity is specified in nines (N). For example, a 99.99% pure ingot will produce a four nines (4N) pure conductor, a 99.9997% pure ingot will produce a five nines (5N) pure conductor and so on. The highest conductor purity currently available is 7N (99.99999% pure).
Conductors used in Atlas quality OFC audio cables have a purity of 6N. Atlas OCC conductors have an equivalent purity of 7N."
If you look at this example it is very similar to claims from homeopaths. The stronger the dilution, the better it will work.
It is simply not possible that raising the "purity" from 99,99% pure ingot to 99,99999% pure ingot can have any significant effect on the electric pulses that go through the cable and therefore the sound coming out of the equipment connected by any of these cables.
People that claim that they can hear such minute differences have supernatural hearing powers.
But iMark consider how acceptable the notion of 'tuning an amp to get that house sound' is.
On the one hand many skeptics will accept the information carried by an electrical signal can be manipulated by type of capacitor, resistor, transistor, valves etc.... But cable manufacturers are conmen.
The signal carried is small - milli volts, infact between CD and amp you're talking less than a 1.5v battery produces.
Thing is alot of folk don't understand with electricity it's all relative - a 500v signal over a 500m conductor behaviors exactly the same as 0.005v signal over 0.005m and is affected by the same laws that's the truth of the science.
Is it audible?
Well if an amp, CD/source can be audibly altered then it's not beyond the realms of logic to work out it can be audible across a conductor.
Can't see what all the fuss is about frankly.
Look how far beyond the decimal point these figures go.....never reaching 10.
On the one hand many skeptics will accept the information carried by an electrical signal can be manipulated by type of capacitor, resistor, transistor, valves etc.... But cable manufacturers are conmen.
The signal carried is small - milli volts, infact between CD and amp you're talking less than a 1.5v battery produces.
Thing is alot of folk don't understand with electricity it's all relative - a 500v signal over a 500m conductor behaviors exactly the same as 0.005v signal over 0.005m and is affected by the same laws that's the truth of the science.
Is it audible?
Well if an amp, CD/source can be audibly altered then it's not beyond the realms of logic to work out it can be audible across a conductor.
Can't see what all the fuss is about frankly.
Look how far beyond the decimal point these figures go.....never reaching 10.
iMark said:
iMark
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb,
It's not about tuning. Tuning is deliberately distorting signals to suit certain consumers. It's nothing to do with the Holy Grail in Hifi: the most lifelike reproduction of sound. If people prefer distorted sound, I don't have a problem with that. I quite like the sound of LPs, but I know that the sound is distorted and that other media will give a more lifelike reproduction of the original sound.
Some cable manufacturers want to make us believe that they can deliver a clearer signal between components and therefore a more lifelike performance from the components. What Atlas Cable claims is that when the go from 99,99% purity to 99,99999% purity that will make a difference people can hear. That sound like homeopathy to me.
It's not about tuning. Tuning is deliberately distorting signals to suit certain consumers. It's nothing to do with the Holy Grail in Hifi: the most lifelike reproduction of sound. If people prefer distorted sound, I don't have a problem with that. I quite like the sound of LPs, but I know that the sound is distorted and that other media will give a more lifelike reproduction of the original sound.
Some cable manufacturers want to make us believe that they can deliver a clearer signal between components and therefore a more lifelike performance from the components. What Atlas Cable claims is that when the go from 99,99% purity to 99,99999% purity that will make a difference people can hear. That sound like homeopathy to me.
TrevC
Well-known member
Covenanter
Well-known member
Atlas - is that the mythical Greek god fella?
I would always be cynical about pages and pages of 'science' nonsense.
I would always be cynical about pages and pages of 'science' nonsense.
TrevC
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
No such thing. Speakers, yes, amplifiers no. Not if you want a flat response.
Thompsonuxb said:
A percentage is always relative to the size of something, so 0.00001% of a very small signal is not more significant then 0.00001% of a very powerful signal.
Also, it does not make sense that we could detect a one in onehundredthousand difference.
Fair enough iMark but 'adding distortion' is manipulating the 'cargo' via the electrical signal.
If that is possible then..... can you see the logic. Then again the 'real' argument is questionable considering what's added/taken away at the mixing desk.
The holy grail of any self respecting cable manufacturer is maintain the100% of the signal and it's 'cargo' leaving the backside of your source/amp to be 100% transparent.
99.99999% to infinity is not the 100% - is that difference audible?.
The size of the signal being carried, it may well be. Well I hear it through my modest kit.
If that is possible then..... can you see the logic. Then again the 'real' argument is questionable considering what's added/taken away at the mixing desk.
The holy grail of any self respecting cable manufacturer is maintain the100% of the signal and it's 'cargo' leaving the backside of your source/amp to be 100% transparent.
99.99999% to infinity is not the 100% - is that difference audible?.
The size of the signal being carried, it may well be. Well I hear it through my modest kit.
iMark said:
TrevC
Well-known member
What?
TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.
Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.
Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.
TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.
Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.
Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.
TrevC said:
???
It's relative. (in that it's all proportional to what ever numbers we ate dealing with, that's why we have formulas etc)
It's relative. (in that it's all proportional to what ever numbers we ate dealing with, that's why we have formulas etc)
Laurens_B said:
Covenanter
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
Doubtless it doesn't (or maybe you think it doesn't
Chris
TrevC
Well-known member
Thompsonuxb said:
I didn't say they wouldn't sound different, only that the 'house sound' thing is nonsense.
Lol.....
Flat response?
More gain?
All things equal?
Prrrft....you guys I swear.....:-D
Flat response?
More gain?
All things equal?
Prrrft....you guys I swear.....:-D
Covenanter said:
Now that's the thing - the 'house sound' is maybe what separates these amps.
Just dropping that in there.
Just dropping that in there.
TrevC said:
Cable Haters will love this video - its not the hitler one.
I think this is brilliant and explains a lot about their products and justifys their high premium
I think this is brilliant and explains a lot about their products and justifys their high premium
Followed by a review of them and he talks about cables in general and his recent conversion from "chopped up mains cable"
Lol.....
Awhile back I generated a thread ref 'snake oil' init I talked about this lense cleaner I own with a diagnostic bit on it.
In this section there was a di-magnatising tone. The disc suggest it be ran every 50hrs of playing (which I do every time I clean the lens in my player)
It was laughed at then, doubt it'll be accepted now.
Wonder if WHF Will do a review on these cables?
Awhile back I generated a thread ref 'snake oil' init I talked about this lense cleaner I own with a diagnostic bit on it.
In this section there was a di-magnatising tone. The disc suggest it be ran every 50hrs of playing (which I do every time I clean the lens in my player)
It was laughed at then, doubt it'll be accepted now.
Wonder if WHF Will do a review on these cables?
ellisdj said:
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