Cables will make a difference

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cheeseboy

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Thompsonuxb said:
No one is suggesting a cable will make a guitar sound like a banjo or anything like that.

Given people refer to night and day differences, I don't think you could get much more of a difference, so getting a guitar to sound like a banjo would be easy in comparison ;)
 

Thompsonuxb

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And that's it right there Cheeseboy, it's relative -the small difference can and do affect our enjoyment in a big way.

When one hears a fatiguing amp compared to a 'nice' amp its subtle differences that seperate them.

To the casual listener it's meh.... To the more discerning listener it's a big deal.

cheeseboy said:
Thompsonuxb said:
No one is suggesting a cable will make a guitar sound like a banjo or anything like that.

Given people refer to night and day differences, I don't think you could get much more of a difference, so getting a guitar to sound like a banjo would be easy in comparison ;)
 

iMark

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Here's a quote from the Atlas Cable company website. Very scientific.

"The purity of a conductor is determined by the purity of the ingot from which it is manufactured. The purity of the ingot is roughly related to the number of grain boundaries present in the final conductor.

Conductor purity is specified in nines (N). For example, a 99.99% pure ingot will produce a four nines (4N) pure conductor, a 99.9997% pure ingot will produce a five nines (5N) pure conductor and so on. The highest conductor purity currently available is 7N (99.99999% pure).

Conductors used in Atlas quality OFC audio cables have a purity of 6N. Atlas OCC conductors have an equivalent purity of 7N."

If you look at this example it is very similar to claims from homeopaths. The stronger the dilution, the better it will work.

It is simply not possible that raising the "purity" from 99,99% pure ingot to 99,99999% pure ingot can have any significant effect on the electric pulses that go through the cable and therefore the sound coming out of the equipment connected by any of these cables.

People that claim that they can hear such minute differences have supernatural hearing powers.
 

Vladimir

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dim_span said:
not trying to bump the thread .... but I found some info on cables (from Atlas Cables) that I found interesting (there are a few pages so click 'next page' on the bottom):

http://www.atlascables.com/conductor-types.html

25c34f6abb88a529f97a5d79f24426052aa248a854ab36906e7f8e71ebf24f2b.jpg
 

Thompsonuxb

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But iMark consider how acceptable the notion of 'tuning an amp to get that house sound' is.

On the one hand many skeptics will accept the information carried by an electrical signal can be manipulated by type of capacitor, resistor, transistor, valves etc.... But cable manufacturers are conmen.

The signal carried is small - milli volts, infact between CD and amp you're talking less than a 1.5v battery produces.

Thing is alot of folk don't understand with electricity it's all relative - a 500v signal over a 500m conductor behaviors exactly the same as 0.005v signal over 0.005m and is affected by the same laws that's the truth of the science.

Is it audible?

Well if an amp, CD/source can be audibly altered then it's not beyond the realms of logic to work out it can be audible across a conductor.

Can't see what all the fuss is about frankly.

Look how far beyond the decimal point these figures go.....never reaching 10.

iMark said:
Here's a quote from the Atlas Cable company website. Very scientific.

"The purity of a conductor is determined by the purity of the ingot from which it is manufactured. The purity of the ingot is roughly related to the number of grain boundaries present in the final conductor.?

Conductor purity is specified in nines (N). For example, a 99.99% pure ingot will produce a four nines (4N) pure conductor, a 99.9997% pure ingot will produce a five nines (5N) pure conductor and so on. The highest conductor purity currently available is 7N (99.99999% pure).?

Conductors used in Atlas quality OFC audio cables have a purity of 6N. Atlas OCC conductors have an equivalent purity of 7N."

?

If you look at this example it is very similar to claims from homeopaths. The stronger the dilution, the better it will work.?

It is simply not possible that raising the "purity" from 99,99% pure ingot to 99,99999% pure ingot can have any significant effect on the electric pulses that go through the cable and therefore the sound coming out of the equipment connected by any of these cables.

People that claim that they can hear such minute differences have supernatural hearing powers.
 

iMark

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Thompsonuxb,

It's not about tuning. Tuning is deliberately distorting signals to suit certain consumers. It's nothing to do with the Holy Grail in Hifi: the most lifelike reproduction of sound. If people prefer distorted sound, I don't have a problem with that. I quite like the sound of LPs, but I know that the sound is distorted and that other media will give a more lifelike reproduction of the original sound.

Some cable manufacturers want to make us believe that they can deliver a clearer signal between components and therefore a more lifelike performance from the components. What Atlas Cable claims is that when the go from 99,99% purity to 99,99999% purity that will make a difference people can hear. That sound like homeopathy to me.
 

Laurens_B

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Thompsonuxb said:
99.99999% to infinity is not the 100% - is that difference audible?.

The size of the signal being carried, it may well be.

A percentage is always relative to the size of something, so 0.00001% of a very small signal is not more significant then 0.00001% of a very powerful signal.

Also, it does not make sense that we could detect a one in onehundredthousand difference.
 

Thompsonuxb

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Fair enough iMark but 'adding distortion' is manipulating the 'cargo' via the electrical signal.

If that is possible then..... can you see the logic. Then again the 'real' argument is questionable considering what's added/taken away at the mixing desk.

The holy grail of any self respecting cable manufacturer is maintain the100% of the signal and it's 'cargo' leaving the backside of your source/amp to be 100% transparent.

99.99999% to infinity is not the 100% - is that difference audible?.

The size of the signal being carried, it may well be. Well I hear it through my modest kit.

iMark said:
Thompsonuxb,

It's not about tuning. Tuning is deliberately distorting signals to suit certain consumers. It's nothing to do with the Holy Grail in Hifi: the most lifelike reproduction of sound. If people prefer distorted sound, I don't have a problem with that. I quite like the sound of LPs, but I know that the sound is distorted and that other media will give a more lifelike reproduction of the original sound.

Some cable manufacturers want to make us believe that they can deliver a clearer signal between components and therefore a more lifelike performance from the components. What Atlas Cable claims is that when the go from 99,99% purity to 99,99999% purity that will make a difference people can hear. That sound like homeopathy to me.

 
 

TrevC

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Laurens_B said:
Thompsonuxb said:
99.99999% to infinity is not the 100% - is that difference audible?.

The size of the signal being carried, it may well be.

A percentage is always relative to the size of something, so 0.00001% of a very small signal is not more significant then 0.00001% of a very powerful signal.

Also, it does not make sense that we could detect a one in onehundredthousand difference.

The most important thing for the audiophool is to imagine you can.
 

Thompsonuxb

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What?

TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.

Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.

Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.

TrevC said:
Thompsonuxb said:
But iMark consider how acceptable the notion of 'tuning an amp to get that house sound' is.

No such thing. Speakers, yes, amplifiers no. Not if you want a flat response.
 

Thompsonuxb

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???

It's relative. (in that it's all proportional to what ever numbers we ate dealing with, that's why we have formulas etc)

Laurens_B said:
Thompsonuxb said:
99.99999% to infinity is not the 100% - is that difference audible?.

The size of the signal being carried, it may well be.

A percentage is always relative to the size of something, so 0.00001% of a very small signal is not more significant then 0.00001% of a very powerful signal.

Also, it does not make sense that we could detect a one in onehundredthousand difference.
 

Covenanter

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Thompsonuxb said:
What?

TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.

Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.

Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.

TrevC said:
Thompsonuxb said:
But iMark consider how acceptable the notion of 'tuning an amp to get that house sound' is.

No such thing. Speakers, yes, amplifiers no. Not if you want a flat response.

Doubtless it doesn't (or maybe you think it doesn't
teeth_smile.gif
) but if both had a flat frequency response then, all other things being equal, it will sound the same. Of course all other things won't be equal! One might have more gain and be louder, which would probably sound better, or it might have a different synergy with the reactive load that your loudspeakers represent. These complications make it difficult to talk objectively about these issues.

Chris
 

TrevC

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Thompsonuxb said:
What?

TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.

Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.

Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.

I didn't say they wouldn't sound different, only that the 'house sound' thing is nonsense.
 

Thompsonuxb

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Lol.....

Flat response?

More gain?

All things equal?

Prrrft....you guys I swear.....:-D
Covenanter said:
Thompsonuxb said:
What?

TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.

Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.

Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.

TrevC said:
Thompsonuxb said:
But iMark consider how acceptable the notion of 'tuning an amp to get that house sound' is.

No such thing. Speakers, yes, amplifiers no. Not if you want a flat response.

Doubtless it doesn't (or maybe you think it doesn't ) but if both had a flat frequency response then, all other things being equal, it will sound the same.  Of course all other things won't be equal!  One might have more gain and be louder, which would probably sound better, or it might have a different synergy with the reactive load that your loudspeakers represent.  These complications make it difficult to talk objectively about these issues.

Chris
 

Thompsonuxb

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Now that's the thing - the 'house sound' is maybe what separates these amps.

Just dropping that in there.

TrevC said:
Thompsonuxb said:
What?

TrevC, I currently have a different amp driving my speakers.

Go on, ask me if I can hear the difference....ask me.

Source is the same, speakers and speaker cable the same. I have had to put in my QED performance 2's interconnects in the chain - but go on, ask me if it sounds the same has my old amp.

?

I didn't say they wouldn't sound different, only that the 'house sound' thing is nonsense.
 

Thompsonuxb

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Lol.....

Awhile back I generated a thread ref 'snake oil' init I talked about this lense cleaner I own with a diagnostic bit on it.

In this section there was a di-magnatising tone. The disc suggest it be ran every 50hrs of playing (which I do every time I clean the lens in my player)

It was laughed at then, doubt it'll be accepted now.

Wonder if WHF Will do a review on these cables?

ellisdj said:
Cable Haters will love this video - its not the hitler one.

I think this is brilliant and explains a lot about their products and justifys their high premium
 

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