Buying/importing hi-fi from abroad

[thescarletpronster]

I'm looking to upgrade the cartridge on my turntable, and am interested in Nagaoka cartridges. I've found out that these cartridges can be got in Japan for about half the lowest price I've seen in UK (£225 versus £520 for the top of the range cartridge). Now I'm wondering whether it's feasible to buy from a seller in Japan and get it sent here.

I've never done this before, and know nothing about import duty or any other charges or what I'd need to do to make this legal. Do I have to get a courier who can do all the customs authorisation in advance, or just get it sent normally and pay when it's delivered?

If you have any experience of buying expensive items from abroad, whether hi-fi or other - for personal use, not as a trader - or have expert knowledge about the situation, I'd love to hear from you.

Drinks on the bar as usual. Thanks in advance!

(I've put this in the main hi-fi section as although it's a cartridge I'm thinking of buying, it doesn't only apply to cartridges.)

 

[chebby]

Just order it through Amazon in Japan and see how it goes. International shipping + VAT is not going to turn that 39,375 yen
(£227) into anything like the sums charged by the likes of Analogue Seduction!

 

[Al ears]

I have had no problems at all doing this apart from the time item actually takes to arrive.

I have only every bought small hifi items just like you are looking at. Got my Zyx R100 cartridge from a highly rated Japanese dealer on eBay. Even with postage this came to just over half the price I would have had to pay a dealer in the UK. Small items like this are often ignored by Customs & Excise and I was charged nothing apart from the cost of item and the postage. Even if VAT was supplied it would still have been a very substantial saving, as chebby notes. Care should be taken over larger items though as these are likely to acquire import duty. Some electrical goods (not so common these days) might require a voltage step-down transformer.

All things considered I would not hesitate to buy smaller items from abroad.

 

[tomlinscote]

I recently bought a valve based headphone cum preamp from China via eBay, it arrived before the scheduled time and in perfect condition, I did not have a paypay account but the payment went through with no worries. I would not have any worries about purchasing from that seller again. So provided the initial outlay isn't exorbitant I would say give it a go, if you use PayPal or like me a credit card you are protected anyway, I think!!

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

My wife is Japanese, and I was considering importing Nagaoka cartridges from Japan to sell over here via my mother in law. I think if you buy direct from Amazon Japan, you'll definitely get hit with duty etc., which is why I was going to get my mother in law to put them inside her food/medicine parcels for my wife, and try to avoid it. I decided against it in the end, because the risk outweighed the possible profits, but if I do buy a new Nagaoka cartridge, I'll be buying from Japan, because the price difference shows just how much we are being ripped off in the UK.

There might be small, but important details on the Japanese sites that you may miss, so if you need any help on the translation front, I'll try to help.

 

[davedotco]

In theory customs and excise can ask for import duty, typically around 8%, then 20% vat plus, if they wish, handling charges.

However what thay actually ask for is pretty random but you could have to pay about half (in total) of the purchase price, on the other hand next to nothing as they often let small packages through without charge.

Hope for the best, be prepared for the worse.

 

[lindsayt]

I've bought a high proportion of my hi-fi from abroad. When importing from outside the EU I always get the seller to declare the full replacement cost / value. It's the legal and ethical thing to do.

You'll have to pay VAT, import duty, plus a handling charge on anything above a very low minimum cost. Total cost will be about 25% of the declared value with shipping costs.

Insured shipping costs on a cartridge will be reasonable. On 400 kgs of speakers shipping costs will be large.

 

[matt49]

I've bought a high proportion of my hi-fi from abroad. When importing from outside the EU I always get the seller to declare the full replacement cost / value. It's the legal and ethical thing to do.

Agreed. Duty and VAT are taxes. They pay for important stuff.

On a different theme, if you buy direct from overseas, you'll have no warranty and no dealer support, so if something goes wrong with your product, you'll be on your own. You may take the view that that doesn't matter with a cartridge.

Matt

 

[ID.]

There might be small, but important details on the Japanese sites that you may miss, so if you need any help on the translation front, I'll try to help.

That's mighty kind of you. I charge my clients ¥20 per Japanese character or ¥12,000 per hour.

I believe that there are also companies like http://www.tenso.com/en/ that will arrange shipping even if you find a retailer than can't/won't ship overseas.

In addition to Amazon Japan, you could also try

http://global.rakuten.com/en/

I can also start suggesting sites that would require the assistance of google translate or kindbernardbreslaw.

I've noticed a lot of people on the head fi forums seem to have experience with purchasing from Japan and having it shipped to the US, etc., so if you have a look around there you might find more reccommendations of forwarding companies, etc.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Thanks everyone for the views and experiences, and thanks Bernard for the offer of help. I might possibly take you up on that if I decide to go down this route.

Can anyone tell me how I can find out how much duty/tax etc I would be paying to import something? I spent a good long time the other day going round in circles on the HRMC website and a few others, and getting nowhere. Is it a standard percentage of value I can use to work it out?

I understand that if you don't pay duty in advance, you have to pay a handling fee in order to have the goods delivered. Is it possible to avoid this handling fee by paying in advance? Or is the handling fee so small that it's not worth doing that?

Thanks again. I'm really getting into the idea of upgrading to a crackingly (but not cracklingly) good cartridge, hopefully in the new year if I start saving now.

 

[davedotco]

Thanks everyone for the views and experiences, and thanks Bernard for the offer of help. I might possibly take you up on that if I decide to go down this route.

Can anyone tell me how I can find out how much duty/tax etc I would be paying to import something? I spent a good long time the other day going round in circles on the HRMC website and a few others, and getting nowhere. Is it a standard percentage of value I can use to work it out?

I understand that if you don't pay duty in advance, you have to pay a handling fee in order to have the goods delivered. Is it possible to avoid this handling fee by paying in advance? Or is the handling fee so small that it's not worth doing that?

Thanks again. I'm really getting into the idea of upgrading to a crackingly (but not cracklingly) good cartridge, hopefully in the new year if I start saving now.

I gave you a decent breakdown earlier in this thread.

You pay the price quoted by the supplier plus shipping costs.

You pay duty, typically around 8% on the product price.

You pay vat, 20%, on the product price plus the duty. (ie you pay tax on tax)

You will most likely have to pay a handling fee to the shipping agent for 'customs clearance'. This can be a fairly random amount.

Realistically you can expect to pay, in total, about one and a half times the product price, maybe a little less. Sometimes you get charged 'nominal' amounts so it is cheaper, but that is not predictable.

Obviously you get no 'backup' or warrantee and may, in the case of any problems, have to deal with someone for whom english is not a first language and whose ideas of customer service may be rather different than what you are used to.

 

[Al ears]

davedotco's break down if probably correct but in reality this is not my experience for small items.

It is technically the maximum you could expect to pay , and so you should plan for it, but it is not my experience (maybe I just got lucky). I have paid, in the past, item cost plus postage and that was it (beware exchange rates though). Duty and VAT will, of course, be charged it Customs & Excise do pick up on it.

 

[davedotco]

davedotco's break down if probably correct but in reality this is not my experience for small items.

It is technically the maximum you could expect to pay , and so you should plan for it, but it is not my experience (maybe I just got lucky). I have paid, in the past, item cost plus postage and that was it (beware exchange rates though). Duty and VAT will, of course, be charged it Customs & Excise do pick up on it.

HMCR do not give a cut off figure but often 'wave through' small, inexpensive items to private citizens. In other cases they charge full whack, plus a handling charge.

A decent phono cartridge is small, but relatively expensive could go either way.

 

[matt49]

davedotco's break down if probably correct but in reality this is not my experience for small items.

It is technically the maximum you could expect to pay , and so you should plan for it, but it is not my experience (maybe I just got lucky). I have paid, in the past, item cost plus postage and that was it (beware exchange rates though). Duty and VAT will, of course, be charged it Customs & Excise do pick up on it.

HMCR do not give a cut off figure but often 'wave through' small, inexpensive items to private citizens. In other cases they charge full whack, plus a handling charge.

A decent phono cartridge is small, but relatively expensive could go either way.

It's also worth noting, from a legal perspective, that if you haven't paid duty and VAT in advance, Customs have the right to confiscate your goods, and you might face struggle to get them back. It would be unwise to assume that Customs will simply send you a nice letter asking for some money.

 

[Al ears]

davedotco's break down if probably correct but in reality this is not my experience for small items.

It is technically the maximum you could expect to pay , and so you should plan for it, but it is not my experience (maybe I just got lucky). I have paid, in the past, item cost plus postage and that was it (beware exchange rates though). Duty and VAT will, of course, be charged it Customs & Excise do pick up on it.

HMCR do not give a cut off figure but often 'wave through' small, inexpensive items to private citizens. In other cases they charge full whack, plus a handling charge.

A decent phono cartridge is small, but relatively expensive could go either way.

It's also worth noting, from a legal perspective, that if you haven't paid duty and VAT in advance, Customs have the right to confiscate your goods, and you might face struggle to get them back. It would be unwise to assume that Customs will simply send you a nice letter asking for some money.

Although if they do decide to do something about it then a letter is normally forthcoming as the product confiscated is, to them, worthless and so an attempt to get the VAT / duty is what they will ultimately prefer.

PS If you ask nicely some dealers will write 'Happy Birthday' on the ouside of the package - although Customs & Excise are probably wise to this one..

 

[7760]

A few additional remarks:

-The duty percentage depends on the commodity, some are duty-free.

-Total payable import charge is: Duty, if any, on the declared value PLUS VAT on (declared value + duty + postage).

- The handling amount by the carrier, if any, depends on the carrier themselves, e.g. the couriers such as UPS, FedEx and TNT can charge quite a lot. Parcelforce, I gather, is about £10-15, Royal Mail (for letter post) shouldn't have any charge. It may also depend upon whether you have to collect shipments at a depot or pay at your door upon delivery (always get a receipt!).

- It does indeed happen that customs "wave through" or overlook shipments which nominally should be charged import fees. I wouldn't *count on* it happening though; if it does, it's your "bonus".

- Yes, you're likely to not have any warranty, however that's the case with virtually any used goods one buys through e.g. eBay.

I gave you a decent breakdown earlier in this thread.

You pay the price quoted by the supplier plus shipping costs.

You pay duty, typically around 8% on the product price.

You pay vat, 20%, on the product price plus the duty. (ie you pay tax on tax)

You will most likely have to pay a handling fee to the shipping agent for 'customs clearance'. This can be a fairly random amount.

Realistically you can expect to pay, in total, about one and a half times the product price, maybe a little less. Sometimes you get charged 'nominal' amounts so it is cheaper, but that is not predictable.

Obviously you get no 'backup' or warrantee and may, in the case of any problems, have to deal with someone for whom english is not a first language and whose ideas of customer service may be rather different than what you are used to.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Having bought quite a few "semi-expensive" cd's from outside the EU, (Japan, USA etc), I have always been charged the following:

VAT will be charged on any item over £15, and any item over £135 will also attract import duty.

Admin fees: Royal Mail: £8; Other International courier companies: £12-£15

All charges will be levied when the item lands in the UK, you will not get the item delivered until these charges have been paid in full.

There is no way around these additional costs unless you get the supplier to state that the item's value is less than £15 on the commercial invoice. Small packages do not get through - the government want their taxes!

 

[unsleepable]

I've used this site before to calculate duties:

http://www.dutycalculator.com

Duties depend on the goods. Sometimes they are none—for example, for computers and digital cameras, except lenses. You still need to pay VAT. For Hi-fi equipment they may be considerable since Europe is a big producer, but you need to check since it varies from country to country following a principle of reciprocity.

This thing of having the package confiscated has never happened to me. But in a couple of occasions I've had to go to Customs to pay the duties and VAT there and grab the package. It may be an inconvenience depending in where the closest Customs office is. They make you open the package there, so you need to be careful with what you declare—the declaration is typically done by the sender, but not necessarily if the package is sent as a private delivery.

In other occasions, the delivery company has taken care of everything and I've just had to pay them.

 

[Al ears]

Having bought quite a few "semi-expensive" cd's from outside the EU, (Japan, USA etc), I have always been charged the following:

VAT will be charged on any item over £15, and any item over £135 will also attract import duty.

Admin fees: Royal Mail: £8; Other International courier companies: £12-£15

All charges will be levied when the item lands in the UK, you will not get the item delivered until these charges have been paid in full.

There is no way around these additional costs unless you get the supplier to state that the item's value is less than £15 on the commercial invoice. Small packages do not get through - the government want their taxes!

I guess some people are unlucky. The bit about government and their taxes is true, the small packages bit is not however.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Luck does come into it but not in the way you think.

I work for one of the big three global international courier company's and all I can say is that everything is automated regarding data transfer concerning anything of interest to customs&excise. Regular monitoring by this government office produce hefty fines imposed on carriers for supplying incorrect information. It is also in the carriers interest to enter correct information as then they can charge their additional admin charges for collecting any tax/duty.

The only way small expensive packages leak through is either the shipper does not submit the correct value of the product, or, the value entered by the carrier is entered incorrectly during data entry. Over the last year I have had one occurence of the former and multiple occurences where the shipper and carrier have subjected me to additional costs.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I gave you a decent breakdown earlier in this thread.

Thanks, and apologies: I misread your earlier comment as being a bit of a guess, based on the 'pretty random' comment. OK, that's useful, thanks. Based on your figures, it looks like being another £100 on the £225, plus any handling charge, so still a decent saving.

If you ask nicely some dealers will write 'Happy Birthday' on the ouside of the package

Well, yes... but I don't want to try to sneak this through; as said above, taxes pay for useful things, such as helping people who can't afford to live, the NHS and so on. (And illegal military incursions overseas, but that's another story...)

It's also worth noting, from a legal perspective, that if you haven't paid duty and VAT in advance, Customs have the right to confiscate your goods, and you might face struggle to get them back. It would be unwise to assume that Customs will simply send you a nice letter asking for some money.

That's useful. Which brings me to another question in my OP: how do I go about sorting this out in advance so I don't have to worry? Are there couriers who will sort out all the duty/tax for me?

If anyone has used any courier for this sort of importing in the past, particularly one which can sort out all the customs stuff in advance, and has either positive or negative experience, it would be really useful. I see Tenso were mentioned above (and I've seen them mentioned on another, US-based, forum) - any actual experience of using them, or another courier, for this?

 

[davedotco]

I gave you a decent breakdown earlier in this thread.

Thanks, and apologies: I misread your earlier comment as being a bit of a guess, based on the 'pretty random' comment. OK, that's useful, thanks. Based on your figures, it looks like being another £100 on the £225, plus any handling charge, so still a decent saving.

If you ask nicely some dealers will write 'Happy Birthday' on the ouside of the package

Well, yes... but I don't want to try to sneak this through; as said above, taxes pay for useful things, such as helping people who can't afford to live, the NHS and so on. (And illegal military incursions overseas, but that's another story...)

It's also worth noting, from a legal perspective, that if you haven't paid duty and VAT in advance, Customs have the right to confiscate your goods, and you might face struggle to get them back. It would be unwise to assume that Customs will simply send you a nice letter asking for some money.

That's useful. Which brings me to another question in my OP: how do I go about sorting this out in advance so I don't have to worry? Are there couriers who will sort out all the duty/tax for me?

If anyone has used any courier for this sort of importing in the past, particularly one which can sort out all the customs stuff in advance, and has either positive or negative experience, it would be really useful. I see Tenso were mentioned above (and I've seen them mentioned on another, US-based, forum) - any actual experience of using them, or another courier, for this?

Generally if your supplier produces a proper invoice for the carrier the rest is pretty much automatic. The carrier will inform customs who will produce a bill for you, you pay that plus any admin fee from the carrier. Pretty straightforward in practice.

 

[7760]

Just have it sent by regular mail, that'd be the easiest form for you (and probably the least "handling" charge).

That's useful. Which brings me to another question in my OP: how do I go about sorting this out in advance so I don't have to worry? Are there couriers who will sort out all the duty/tax for me?

If anyone has used any courier for this sort of importing in the past, particularly one which can sort out all the customs stuff in advance, and has either positive or negative experience, it would be really useful. I see Tenso were mentioned above (and I've seen them mentioned on another, US-based, forum) - any actual experience of using them, or another courier, for this?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Regular Mail!! With something that expensive personally I would prefer to have some sort of tracking and signed pod.

To the OP, (as Dave has already said), ALL of the larger courier company's handle the paperwork and duty/tax aspect for you. You can't pay tax/duty in advance as these charges are not applied until your shipment lands in the UK, at which time they will either email, call or write to you stating that you need to pay x amount to get your package delivered.

Unsleepable gave an excellent link to a website to calculate tax/duty.

If the Japanese suppliers operate on an international basis then leave all the shipping aspects to them as they will probably get a much better price for shipping than you ever could.

 

[7760]

Regular Mail!! With something that expensive personally I would prefer to have some sort of tracking and signed pod.

The one does not exclude the other...