Buy a DAC or CD6004? Confused.

[admin_exported]

Hi Guys, could someone please shed a little light on this whole DAC malarky. My situation is i've been using my Sony BDP for playing CD's but i had the intention to add the much reviewed Marantz CD6004. BUT, i've read this may not be the best way to go? Would a dedicated DAC used with my current Sony BDP out perform the CD6004 considering my £300-£400 budget?

To confuse me further, i have an Apple TV. I have read that an external DAC coupled to my Apple TV with iTunes downloads will also produce extremely good audio? This boggles me as i thought MP3's were bad when it comes to high quality audio?

Advice much appreciated.

Thanks.

Rodd.

 

[geordie777]

Hi Rod

I had the same problem as yourself but after a bit research went for the Marantz cd6004. I use the USB to play my iPad or iPhone through and it sounds great. I use iTunes where I have ripped most of the CDs to Apple lossless, and also spotify which I stream at high quality. However depending on how good your current cd player is it might be better for you to get a stand alone Dac am sure the guys on here will point you in the right direction.

 

[fr0g]

Hi Guys, could someone please shed a little light on this whole DAC malarky. My situation is i've been using my Sony BDP for playing CD's but i had the intention to add the much reviewed Marantz CD6004. BUT, i've read this may not be the best way to go? Would a dedicated DAC used with my current Sony BDP out perform the CD6004 considering my £300-£400 budget?

To confuse me further, i have an Apple TV. I have read that an external DAC coupled to my Apple TV with iTunes downloads will also produce extremely good audio? This boggles me as i thought MP3's were bad when it comes to high quality audio?

Advice much appreciated.

Thanks.

Rodd.

If your Sony is working fine I'd go for a DAC. It will indeed improve the performance of the Apple TV too.

And don't believe the doubters on quality of MP3. So long as it's a decent bitrate and properly ripped it's unlikely you will tell the difference between that and the CD. (Think 190 Kbps VBR or higher), by 256 I find it totally indistinguishable.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much guys, could you recommend a quality DAC? It's a shame the CD6004 doesn't have a way of connecting to Apple TV.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Rodd,

Take a look at the Arcam rDac, takes some beating,

Also maybe the Audioengine D1 (cheaper, but still good)

Regards

AJ

 

[Anonymous]

Cheers guys, im going to audition the rDac after work. Going to a/b test against the Marantz CD6004 using my Sony BPDS360 as transport. Also going to test the SA-KI Pearl for reference.

 

[legoyoda]

To add my 2p on the mp3 debate I'd like to add that it's all down to your personal taste and hearing. I can tell the difference between mp3 bit rates so please ensure you listen youself before jumping down that route. To my ears 128kbps is constricted, clipped and horrible, then bass and trebble get progressivly better up to the 320 kbps level (it's after 256kbps that I find bass finally stops being obviously "splatty"). But even at that bit rate an mp3 will sound constrained over a regular CD or losless file (FLAC, WAV etc).

if you can run the same sone through the same amp and speakers at the same time just flicking between inputs. You'll soon find out which is better and what the differences are.

 

[fr0g]

To add my 2p on the mp3 debate I'd like to add that it's all down to your personal taste and hearing. I can tell the difference between mp3 bit rates so please ensure you listen youself before jumping down that route. To my ears 128kbps is constricted, clipped and horrible, then bass and trebble get progressivly better up to the 320 kbps level (it's after 256kbps that I find bass finally stops being obviously "splatty"). But even at that bit rate an mp3 will sound constrained over a regular CD or losless file (FLAC, WAV etc).

I'd be genuinely interested if you could do the ABX comparitor test in Foobar and get a positive result (10/10 or more). I've yet to see anyone manage it at 256 kbps. I can't do it at 190 VBR.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, i auditioned the rDac in store using a Sony Blu Ray to spin the disc. A/B'd it with a CD6004 and the difference was amazing. Got it home, plugged it in using the same set up as in store and it sounds absolutely rubbish. Bass is booming and overpowering, treble is harsh. Infact the sound direct from Blu Ray via HDMI is better. GUTTED!!! I have the rDac plugged in to the CD and the BDP HDMI is connected to the DVD channel on the amp, so i can switch between the two sounds instantly. I am shocked how theres no improvement. I don't understand how it sounded so good during the store demo???

Feel like ive just set fire to £325!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Hmm, sounds to me like something is not right.

U checked you got it setup right? Digital out from your Sony BR into rDac, then rDac phonos out into pre-amp (or amp), that's what you've done right?

Regards

AJ

 

[Rick1979]

Hi Todd,

I've read many stories just like yours and the outcome seems to be the rdac needs running in. Persevere with it, I'm sure the one you auditioned was well run in.

 

[Rick1979]

Think arcam say 70+ hours.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies guys, yes all connected correctly. Ive left it running all night and all of today processing the coax ouput from my SKY HD box. Just to see if indeed it needs running in. Really hope thats all it is.

Does anyone think the shop will take it back or swap it for something else if it doesnt improve?

 

[Anonymous]

Ya they should swap it no problem, but like the others say, maybe try it for a week and see if it improves!

Regards

AJ

 

[Anonymous]

maybe try it for a week and see if it improves!

Regards

AJ

Thats what worries me. I've read most peoples initial experience is a positive one. I find it hard to believe that a product can be borderline useless but then spring in to life a week or so down the road. I'm not qualified to say either way but it doesnt seem right that the performance should be so poor straight out the box.

 

[Rick1979]

Keep us updated on you are getting on!

 

[Anonymous]

Keep us updated on you are getting on!

Will do. I've called the store and explained the problem and they've asked me to take it back for a listen.

Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Rodd,

Yes, a £400 Musical Fidelity's M1DAC will outperform the Marantz CD6004 by far. No doubt at all! There's no way the mentioned CD player to get even close to the M1 DAC.

You'll be surprised when you listen to M1DAC as it's is capable of outperforming many £1000 CD players. As CD redbook, the referred MF's DAC is actually much closer to Marantz SA-15S2 rather than CD6004.

As regards what you've read about the Apple TV, yes, that's true: an external DA will improve the sound quality. Don't expect an audiophile performance partnering a DAC with you Apple devices, but a good DAC is capable of extracting a much more convincing sound quality from music computer files.

Regards,

Would a dedicated DAC used with my current Sony BDP out perform the CD6004 considering my £300-£400 budget?

To confuse me further, i have an Apple TV. I have read that an external DAC coupled to my Apple TV with iTunes downloads will also produce extremely good audio? This boggles me as i thought MP3's were bad when it comes to high quality audio?

Advice much appreciated.

Thanks.

Rodd.

 

[Anonymous]

any news regarding the dac?

thinking to get rid of my cd6004 and get a bd player and dac....

help pls

 

[Blackdawn]

Rodd,

Yes, a £400 Musical Fidelity's M1DAC will outperform the Marantz CD6004 by far. No doubt at all! There's no way the mentioned CD player to get even close to the M1 DAC.

Really? I'd like to hear this, am not convinced most people would notice a difference. So just changing only the DAC can have a huge difference to sound quality?

 

[BigH]

Rodd,

Yes, a £400 Musical Fidelity's M1DAC will outperform the Marantz CD6004 by far. No doubt at all! There's no way the mentioned CD player to get even close to the M1 DAC.

Really? I'd like to hear this, am not convinced most people would notice a difference. So just changing only the DAC can have a huge difference to sound quality?

From what I have heard and read the DAC would make more difference than changing the transport. How much do you think the DAC in a £250 player costs, to me a £400 DAC will be much better but you need to hear for yourself.

 

[SpursGator]

To the OP - you said that you connected the HDMI from the Blu-Ray player 'directly to the amp.' You never said which amp you had but since HMDI only carries a digital signal, then the output from the Blu-Ray player is getting decoded by another DAC, in your amp. Do you have a home cinema amp?

The difference between CD players is mainly the difference in the DAC - everything upstream of the DAC just does the job of getting the 1's and 0's off of the disc and feeding it to the DAC (the one that every CD player has, built-in). And any CD player can get 1's and 0's off of a disc - if you could not do that 100% reliably, then CDs would not work for computer software, since every single bit must be perfect to, say, install an application from a CD. Bad transports can feed timing errors to DACs, so the transport does matter (unless you have a reclocking DAC), but it's mainly the DAC.

So if you are comparing the analogue output of your Blu-ray player to the same player's digital output fed to the rDAC, I can pretty much promise that the latter will be better, since as others have replied, how much can they possibly have spent on the built-in DAC?

But that's NOT what you are doing. If you are feeding your amp with an HDMI cable, then you are not listening to the Blu-Ray player's DAC - you are listening to the DAC built-in to the amp. And if the amp is an A/V receiver, then it might be putting the digital signal through some kind of DSP designed to home theatre applications. Furthermore, if this is the case, then you may have the whole system (and your ears) adapted to that sound, such that the raw analogue signal coming from the DAC to the same amp's analogue inputs does not sound right.

Plus maybe you've got a really sweet amp with a great DAC that's better than the rDAC. I have a friend with a Yamaha home theatre receiver and we determined that the amp's built-in DAC (once we turned of all of the digital DSP crap it was doing) clearly outperformed the AudioEngine D1 standalone DAC (which is nowhere near as good as the rDAC, but still).

 

[Blackdawn]

Rodd,

Yes, a £400 Musical Fidelity's M1DAC will outperform the Marantz CD6004 by far. No doubt at all! There's no way the mentioned CD player to get even close to the M1 DAC.

Really? I'd like to hear this, am not convinced most people would notice a difference. So just changing only the DAC can have a huge difference to sound quality?

From what I have heard and read the DAC would make more difference than changing the transport. How much do you think the DAC in a £250 player costs, to me a £400 DAC will be much better but you need to hear for yourself.

If the source is a Marantz CD6004 as in the thread title, I'm assuming the amp and speakers will be of a similar quality/standard. So if a new expensive DAC is added, it should also be important to improve the amplfier and speakers otherwise maybe the benefits may not be so obvious or worthwhile?

 

[GSB]

Spursgator,do you not use the dacs off the oppo then...i read the sabre's are referance!

What is your set-up mate?

 

[Overdose]

Thanks for the replies guys, yes all connected correctly. Ive left it running all night and all of today processing the coax ouput from my SKY HD box. Just to see if indeed it needs running in. Really hope thats all it is.

Does anyone think the shop will take it back or swap it for something else if it doesnt improve?

The only thing that will change over time is your ears becoming acustomed to the sound. If it sounds wrong now, send it back now.

I've yet to see any real evidence of 'burn in' effects with solid state technology and anecdotal evidence doesn't count. BTW, why does everyone who believes in 'burn in' think that the sound changes for the better? To believe that it changes at all is bad enough, but that any change is gauanteed to be good is just wishful thinking.

When you demo/audition at a dealer, the listening room will have, in the majority of cases, a completely different acoustic affect on the sound of the system than your own home and because it has such a large effect, a home demo is the only real way to determine if you like the sound of the equipment.

FWIW, I find the CA Dacmagic Plus to be very good and a far better product in terms of functionality, being a digital preamp, headphone amp and DAC, all in one. Any DAC that you buy, may or may not give you an improvement, but perhaps a chage is likely, even so, these differences if you can detect them will not be so great as the effect of dealing with any acoustic problems in your room or buying a new set of speakers, so unless you absolutely need to spend your money on a DAC, then I'd reconsider your options and get the most important bits right first.

Re. bit rates. I archive in Apple lossless and use 256 VBR for most of my listening. Sounds just fine to me.