bargain products are bad

[rainsoothe]

Was thinking... Let's say a product costs 700 quid, and it's very well reviewed, with top ratings , and "it punches well above it's weight, giving costing twice as much a run for their money". Then, we take another product, that gets a similar review, but it costs 1400. Then another, that costs 2800. So on. Eventually, we end up with a pair of Kef LS50 that sounds exactly like Wilson Audio floorstanders.
This line of reasoning means either that expensive speakers have no place in the world, since you can get the same performance from the cheapest speaker that "punches well above", or that it really means that such a speaker sounds like another that costs twice as much, but sounds like ****. Which means I don't want it.

 

[Laurens_B]

...Or.... reviews are rubbish.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Much of the time, a product competing with products twice its price is down to just having a different sound signature, which just happens to strike a chord with the reviewer/end user. I do feel that this sort of expression is overused and something that is banded about fat too often, as not all products twice a particular product's price are going to be equal. Probably a more accurate description would be that a particular product 'competes with the lower quality products at twice its price'.

As for comparing actual quality of products at any given price point, different manufacturers have different goals. Yes, they will be trying to produce the best speaker they can for any given price point, but one manufacturer may be trying to produce a speaker with a big bass presence, whereas another may be sacrificing bass depth and presence for midrange/treble presence. Another manufacturer might skimp on the relatively unimportant finish to push funds elsewhere like driver quality, larger cabinet, more drivers etc. This relates more so to the budget end, where there's only so much a manufacturer can do, but they are free to choose which aspects are more important. The higher up the price chain you go, the more aspects of a speaker design can be adequately/properly dealt with.

Speakers are generally the weakest link in the chain, with much of the signal loss happening at this stage (for various reasons), and it is at this point where there can be the largest gains, so I disagree that high end speakers have no place in the world. Although there are some stupidly expensive speakers out there that while beautifully finished, just don't give value for money when it comes to sound quality.

 

[lindsayt]

David, which stupidly expensive speakers have you come across that you feel don't give value for money when it comes to sound quality?

 

[rainsoothe]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

 

[DocG]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

 

[rainsoothe]

rofl, I didn't, but up to 1024 it's like computer ram steps, and the other is just x2 stuff, not that hard ^^

EDIT: but thanks nonetheless

 

[Gazzip]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

Maths DocG, not math. Not math.

 

[bigboss]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

Maths DocG, not math. Not math.

I'm seriously impressed by your English skills!

 

[Frank Harvey]

David, which stupidly expensive speakers have you come across that you feel don't give value for money when it comes to sound quality?

Nothing we deal with, so our customers are safe from purchasing them

 

[lindsayt]

That's fair enough. I thought my question might put you in an awkward position as you'd either have to risk coming across as sounding like you were rubbishing the competition, or that you would have to admit to selling some poor value for money equipment.

This can be the difference between a trade member and a non-trade member commenting on a hi-fi forum. There are times when it's easier for the non trade member can be more frank than the trade member.

 

[DocG]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

Maths DocG, not math. Not math.

Now, that's why I spend time on an English forum! *mail1* Thanks for the tip, Gazzip!

 

[Andrewjvt]

Monitor audio is s....t hahah only joking

 

[rainsoothe]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^?

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

His maths initiative be ok but his logic is seriously flawed.

No

 

[steve_1979]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

His maths initiative be ok but his logic is seriously flawed.

No

Yes.

 

[The_Lhc]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^?

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

His maths may be ok but his logic is seriously flawed.

 

[The_Lhc]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^?

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

His maths initiative be ok but his logic is seriously flawed.

No

Yes.

Yes.

 

[rainsoothe]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^?

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

His maths initiative be ok but his logic is seriously flawed.

No

Yes.

Yes.

You can either explain how, or I'll assume the logic of it is just eluding you. Besides the fact you're missing the point. So please, illuminate me.

 

[Frank Harvey]

This can be the difference between a trade member and a non-trade member commenting on a hi-fi forum. There are times when it's easier for the non trade member can be more frank than the trade member.

Agreed.

 

[bigboss]

Well this went serious fast! I was just joking about that phrase being used so often, and it's funny implication if you stop to think about it - of course I'm not taking it literally ^^?

100$ speakers that sound like 200$ speakers that sound like 400$ speakers that sound like 800$ speakers that sound like 1600$ speakers that sound like 3200$ speakers that sound like 6400$ speakers that sound like 12800 speakers that sound like 25600 speakers that sound like 51200$ speakers that sound like 102400$ speakers that sound like 204800$ speakers that sound like 409600$ speakers that sound like 819200$ speakers

==>

some 100$ speakers sound like 819.200$ speakers

Tell me you used a calculator here! If not, I'm seriously impressed by your math skills!*good*

His maths initiative be ok but his logic is seriously flawed.

No

Yes.

Yes.

You can either explain how, or I'll assume the logic of it is just eluding you. Besides the fact you're missing the point. So please, illuminate me.

Logic?? There's no measurement to deem a speaker "punching above its weight". They're subjective reviews.

And speakers are only 1 part of the chain. The amplifier needs to be good enough to bring the best out of the speakers and vice versa.

It's all about system synergy and matching.

 

[minjuh1]

There's a flaw in ur logic, dude. It means a product is as good as an average product twice the price, not a top class product that's twice the price. You need to learn how to think logically, man.

 

[rainsoothe]

There's a flaw in ur logic, dude. It means a product is as good as an average product twice the price, not a top class product that's twice the price. You need to learn how to think logically, man.

Ofc course I know that's what it means, my point was just that it's a phrase that's thrown too often imo, and it might as well mean what I said. I didn't think people would take this literally.

 

[DaanS]

A: speaker 100,- sounds like speaker 200,-
B: speaker 200,- sounds like speaker 300,-
C: speaker 100,- sounds like speaker 300,-

"if speaker 100 sounds like speaker 200 AND speaker 200 sounds like speaker 300, than speaker 100 sounds like speaker 300"
( A ^ B ) --> C

This logical expression is true when either A, B and C are all true, when all are false or when C is false while either A or B is true. The logical expression is false when C is false when A and B are both true.

Nothing wrong with the logics here, just with the use of language

edit: btw lovely idea for a thread

 

[jjbomber]

the non trade member can be more frank than the trade member.

.... well it is 'frank' Harvey.

 

[tino]

"if speaker 100 sounds like speaker 200 AND speaker 200 sounds like speaker 300, than speaker 100 sounds like speaker 300"( A ^ B ) --> C"

I think the OP's original postulate was that A = B and B = C therefore A = C.

Ipso facto all WHF 5* ratings are rubbish.

*pardon*