Why Marantz AV receivers never appear in What HiFi reviews?

[Naass]

Hello HiFi Enthusiastics,

Everytime I read my new edition of What HiFi magazine I feel some diappointment.

The magazine is supposed to be objective and non-biased, but how can anybody explain why in all AV receivers individual and group reviews, the magazine omits to review or even to mention the Marantz products.

When I decided to upgrade my AV receiver a couple of years ago, I had a look on what is available on the market and then I tried to see what the experts are saying about each products.

One of the products I short listed at the time was the Marantz SR6006.

I waited patiently (more than 6 months) the What HiFi review which never came.

I finally decided myself and bought the little beast.

My choice was done following several listening sessions. The choice was also based on specifications and quality/price performance.

I am happy. Yes, I am happy with my choice.

But, how frustrated I am to see that month after month, magazine after magazine, my Marantz receiver and its successors are still un-understandably omitted in the reviews.

Since then, I colcluded that What HiFi is biased toward some brands.

This should not be the case for one of the leaders in the HiFi press.

If I am wrong, I would love to hear the reason behind pushing some brands, while others are completely dropped.

I would love also to hear the opinion of the readers.

Thanks.

 

[bigboss]

WHF has no reason for bias. Marantz stereo amplifiers are award winners.

 

[Naass]

How can you then explain that no Marantz AV receiver has figured in the reviews for few years now?

 

[Andy Clough]

We have asked for them to include in our reviews and Group Tests on many occasions, but Marantz has declined to supply. We'd be very happy to include them. And there's certainly no bias on our part, as the Awards for the Marantz CD6004 and PM6004 prove.

 

[Naass]

But how come, they provide the stereo amps and CD players as you have them systematically on review?

And how can you explain that they always provide you with Denon equivalent?

To say that you have independant review or opinion, you do not need to wait the manfacturer to provide you with the product.

Surely there are other ways or channels that could provide the product for a week.

 

[bigboss]

1) It's the manufacturer's decision regarding which products to submit for review.

2) There hasn't been any significant demand to review them on the forum; I haven't seen any thread in my 4 years here.

 

[nopiano]

I've no idea if this is the case, but I always had the impression that Marantz AV products were there to pad out the hifi range. And Denon hifi was there to pad out their AV range. I speak as an owner of 2005 year Denon AV system and a past user of Marantz items (still in use by family members, and very good too).

Now they are part of a common group, it would make sense for me if they were to diverge - Marantz to hifi and Denon to AV. But I suspect their distribution and reputation varies by country, hence the present situation.

Nice at is is to see our purchaces reviewed, you did the right thing by researching and listening for yourself!

The bias you hint at simply doesn't stack up.

 

[Naass]

What HiFi proudly flag their best buying guide, the number 1source of clear, expert and independent advice.

Is that true?

To be true, the guide should be complete with almost all available products listed and noted.

To be true it should be independent. Independent means, they shouldn't rely on the supplied product, but should get the product from the high street. Otherwise how can they certify that the supplied product was not tweeked, just to get the hieghest rating?

If you want to have a view on the available espresso coffee machines on the market, just have a look on the Which! guide.
You will see all the available makes and models were reviewed. They didn't omit one model pretexting that the ditributor did not provide them with the sample.

Saying Marantz is a good for Stereo and Denon is good for the home cinema is a personal opinion.

So if I want to buy an AV receiver and need a professional advice on the available products, where do I go?

Say, I short listed the Denon AVR-3312 and the Marantz SR6006. Could you tell me why do I need to buy What HiFi magazine as it always reviews Denon receivers and then I have to spend days looking for another professional reviewer and then buy another magazine for the Marantz SR6006 which happened this tilme to be Sound Vision Install magazine.

And how can you explain why the distriburtor supplied the SR6006 sample to the SVI magazine and refused to do so to WH?

What HiFi says that their guide is the most complete, then it should be the most complete.

Come on guys! It is clear that something is wrong somewhere.... I do not work for What HiFi to know what is the cause.
That's why I posted this thread and I was hoping to get an honest contructive answer... which I didn't get... yet.

 

[bigboss]

The hard reality is that it is simply not possible to buy & test every AV equipment on the market with the current budget constraints. What Hi Fi has to continue making money, in the face of other Hi Fi magazines closing down.

Which? on the other hand, is a registered charity (also known as Consumers' Association) who charges for everything: online access, magazines & other services. Being a charity, it gets tax benefits as well.

What Hi Fi doesn't charge for online access.

No other Hi Fi & AV magazine tests as many products as What Hi Fi. If there is sufficient demand, they will buy & test it (like Oppo 831). So, in effect, it is the most complete amongst the current lot.

 

[psurquhart]

Shoot me down in flames but I think Naass has a very valid point here.

I appreciate I have harped on about this before but I was in the same train of thought with the flagship Sony av amps.

Yes, I know a review is supposedly just around the corner for Sony's STR-DA5800ES but I too found it very odd that they had not reviewed the previous models.

I still own the highly rated (at its time) and reviewed DA5400ES - in fact it was top dog in the high end buyers guide for many many months and indeed won a Product of the Year Award - praised highly by WHF. And being one to always look to upgrade I was hoping for a review on the predecessing models? No reviews on the 5500ES, 5600ES and 5700ES (see what Sony do here with model numbers !!!). Four years down the line my wait may well be over to see if the new Sony 5800ES is any good compared with its competitors (but probably not a Marantz).

Come on What Hi Fi - please can we have a super group test of the premier flagship amps sometime soon ?

With av amps you can always guarantee a review/group test of Pioneer, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha and Arcam. Thats a given. But no Sony or Marantz.

Naass you have a point. WHF has very boldly printed on the new mag - "New Buying Guide ! All the specs All the facts" - doesnt quite totally ring true.

I do appreciate it must be hard both to source products and financially to budget in every product on the market but both Marantz and Sony are pretty big players here. I dont believe any bias comes in to it though and I still think you guys do a fantastic job but Naass has a point.

 

[banjoman1]

Hi Everyone. I am a new member and this is the first time I have joined in a conversation. I am currently in the process of changing my AV receiver. After many years of fine service I have decided to retire my Yamaha RX-V2600. I have been looking at the Marantz range but it seems very difficult to find reviews in magazines of Marantz av receivers. Like other members of this forum I have been buying WHF in the hope of finding a review but as yet no luck. This is indeed very frustrating.

To take this one step further it seems increasing difficult to find a dealer who stocks the higher end Marantz AV receivers. When I ask they inevitably want to steer me towards Yamaha and Pioneer and Onkyo. So not only is it proving difficult to find reviews in magazines it's also proving difficult to audition Marantz receivers.

So I am now asking for advice. My short list for a replacement for my Yamaha RX-V2600 include Marantz SR7007, Denon AVR3313 or Yamaha RX-A1020. I want a receiver which is good with 2channel music. The marantz has very good reports as regards to music, the Denon's price is tumbling, I recently saw it advertised for under £600 which seems a real bargin. The Yamaha is receiving great reviews but as much as I like my current Yamaha I do find it a little clinical with music.

Your thoughts, opinions and reviews would be very welcome.

Thanks

 

[bigboss]

Which speakers have you got? I'm very surprised that you find the Yamaha to be a little clinical with music. In my experience, I found it refreshingly warm with my speakers.

Yamaha 2020 is more in league with your other 2 options, the 1020 sits a class below that.

Here's a Marantz review:

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Marantz-SR7007-7-2-channel-AV-Receiver-Review_454/Review.html

Can't suggest anymore without knowing your speakers.

 

[bigboss]

Is there any other reason for you to upgrade your receiver, other than improving 2 channel music? If not, then getting a cheap to midrange stereo amplifier & connecting it to your receiver's pre-outs will bring far greater benefits, & will be a lot cheaper.

 

[banjoman1]

Thanks for your reply. The speakers that I.m currently using for 2 channel music are monitor audio BX5, I'm in the process of up dating my surround speakers. One of the main reasons for changing is because the rx-v2600 doesn't' accept 1080p or higher. Also everything in the house is Mac orientated so I would like airplay and eventually wifi for streaming. I had considered using the pre outs but due to "pressure" from my wife another box might not be a good idea. I would love the 2020 but it's a little above my budget.

 

[bigboss]

I'm quite shocked at the price of Denon 3313. It represents excellent value. Yamaha 1020 is a brilliant receiver as well. You can't go wrong with either. Demo both to see which one you'd prefer.

 

[Andy Clough]

What HiFi proudly flag their best buying guide, the number 1source of clear, expert and independent advice.

Is that true?

To be true, the guide should be complete with almost all available products listed and noted.

To be true it should be independent. Independent means, they shouldn't rely on the supplied product, but should get the product from the high street. Otherwise how can they certify that the supplied product was not tweeked, just to get the hieghest rating?

Come on guys! It is clear that something is wrong somewhere.... I do not work for What HiFi to know what is the cause.
That's why I posted this thread and I was hoping to get an honest contructive answer... which I didn't get... yet.

Naass, with the huge number of products available on the market across all the different product sectors we cover, it would simply be impossible to test every single product currently available. No-one, not even our rivals, has the resources to do that.

When we can't get a product for review, we do buy it or borrow it from a retailer if we can. We did just that with a recent Denon AV receiver, for example. But we do not have a limitless budget to buy products ourselves, and not all retailers will lend us samples as they obviously have to be unboxed to test them (which effectively makes them secondhand), so we - like every magazine and website in the business - have to rely on manufacturers supplying them for us to test. It's the same with car magazines, camera or computer titles and so on.

We also publish a number of motoring titles - Autocar and WhatCar? - and if we had to buy every new car on the market to test, we'd simply go bust. As bigboss points out, our websites are free.

Our integrity and independence is based on the fact that we never discuss the results of the review with the manufacturer, their marketing or PR dept before they're published. If all the products we tested were 'tweaked' as you suggest, then it would soon become obvious and our readers would no longer trust us.

And I will say again: we always do our best to get relevant models from as many brands as possible (including Sony and Marantz), but it's not always possible within the time constraints/deadlines we operate under. However, if there are particular models you would like us to test (Sony STR-DA5800ES duly noted!) we'll endeavour to get them.

 

[banjoman1]

Bigboss, thanks for your help. I agree that the Denon appears to outstanding value for the money, almost half the oringinal asking price. Very very tempting indeed.

I must add that as much as I have been looking for reviews on Marantz AV products I can sympathise with publications such as What Hifi. It must be incredibly difficult for publications to keep up with all the new products and updates on current products. The sheer number of products on the market can be overwhelming. Whilst auditioning a Yamaha RX-V773 I asked the dealer a few questions about output and connectivity. He decided to look on Yamaha's website only to find out the the RX-V773 was about to replaced by the RX-V775. (so no point in buying the 773). If dealers are having trouble keeping up what hope is there for the rest of us or for publications such as What Hifi trying to test and review new products which by the time they have tested and published there reviews the product itself may well have been updated or replaced.

 

[psurquhart]

What HiFi proudly flag their best buying guide, the number 1source of clear, expert and independent advice.

Is that true?

To be true, the guide should be complete with almost all available products listed and noted.

To be true it should be independent. Independent means, they shouldn't rely on the supplied product, but should get the product from the high street. Otherwise how can they certify that the supplied product was not tweeked, just to get the hieghest rating?

Come on guys! It is clear that something is wrong somewhere.... I do not work for What HiFi to know what is the cause.
That's why I posted this thread and I was hoping to get an honest contructive answer... which I didn't get... yet.

Naass, with the huge number of products available on the market across all the different product sectors we cover, it would simply be impossible to test every single product currently available. No-one, not even our rivals, has the resources to do that.

When we can't get a product for review, we do buy it or borrow it from a retailer if we can. We did just that with a recent Denon AV receiver, for example. But we do not have a limitless budget to buy products ourselves, and not all retailers will lend us samples as they obviously have to be unboxed to test them (which effectively makes them secondhand), so we - like every magazine and website in the business - have to rely on manufacturers supplying them for us to test. It's the same with car magazines, camera or computer titles and so on.

We also publish a number of motoring titles - Autocar and WhatCar? - and if we had to buy every new car on the market to test, we'd simply go bust. As bigboss points out, our websites are free.

Our integrity and independence is based on the fact that we never discuss the results of the review with the manufacturer, their marketing or PR dept before they're published. If all the products we tested were 'tweaked' as you suggest, then it would soon become obvious and our readers would no longer trust us.

And I will say again: we always do our best to get relevant models from as many brands as possible (including Sony and Marantz), but it's not always possible within the time constraints/deadlines we operate under. However, if there are particular models you would like us to test (Sony STR-DA5800ES duly noted!) we'll endeavour to get them.

Thanks Andy re Sony av amp.

As I said before, not a pop just a point.

 

[professorhat]

To be true it should be independent. Independent means, they shouldn't rely on the supplied product, but should get the product from the high street. Otherwise how can they certify that the supplied product was not tweeked, just to get the hieghest rating?

If a manufacturer could simply "tweak" a product to sound better and get a higher rating (and somehow know this tweak would get a higher rating), why on earth would they not just include this tweak in every model? It would serve them a lot better to do so in the long run since they'd get a good review and have happy, loyal customers (which ultimately is the aim of these companies believe it or not!).

 

[whiskywheels]

But how come, they provide the stereo amps and CD players as you have them systematically on review?

And how can you explain that they always provide you with Denon equivalent?

To say that you have independant review or opinion, you do not need to wait the manfacturer to provide you with the product.

Surely there are other ways or channels that could provide the product for a week.

I'm with you here. This is why we should take no notice of all this subjective nonsense and hype. The sample group is determined by manufacturer input (bias), not a real objective anlaysis of available, comparable products. Then we give adulation to the opinions of people who make no reference to real world applications. We suck it up like the fools we are, as if having the allegedly best sounding, best value for money product is the most important thing in the world in preference to what our ears, eyes, and other considerations may tell us. The opinions of fellow forumites are no more valid, given that most of them are based on the "this is what I've got so it's the best" philosophy. Oh, and dealers will recommend and enthuse about what they sell won't they? All of which may lead you to wonder why you should want to visit this forum, which I won't be anymore.

 

[The_Lhc]

All of which may lead you to wonder why you should want to visit this forum, which I won't be anymore.

Cool, don't let the door smack you in the backside on the way out...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Oh, and dealers will recommend and enthuse about what they sell won't they? All of which may lead you to wonder why you should want to visit this forum, which I won't be anymore.

Only if it is any good.

This seems a popular statement, but I don't suppose a dealer is going to enthuse about something they don't sell seeing as they probably haven't heard it...

 

[mfanje]

:bounce: Hi! I have Cambridge Audio Azur 840C cd Player and I linn Exotic Preamplifier and Parasound model 2250 Power Amplifier. When come to speakers I use spendor S5 or some times I use B&W DM309. What is your view to this combination. I love music and I would love to creat a good hi fi which will do justice to my music. I love both jazz and R&B type of music.

Regards

Mfanje

 

[Andrew Everard]

:bounce: Hi! I have Cambridge Audio Azur 840C cd Player and I linn Exotic Preamplifier and Parasound model 2250 Power Amplifier. When come to speakers I use spendor S5 or some times I use B&W DM309. What is your view to this combination. I love music and I would love to creat a good hi fi which will do justice to my music. I love both jazz and R&B type of music.

Regards

Mfanje

You may do better posting this as a new topic in the 'Hi-Fi' section rather than appending it to this discussion, where it's likely to get overlooked.

 

[strapped for cash]

To be true it should be independent. Independent means, they shouldn't rely on the supplied product, but should get the product from the high street. Otherwise how can they certify that the supplied product was not tweeked, just to get the hieghest rating?

If a manufacturer could simply "tweak" a product to sound better and get a higher rating (and somehow know this tweak would get a higher rating), why on earth would they not just include this tweak in every model? It would serve them a lot better to do so in the long run since they'd get a good review and have happy, loyal customers (which ultimately is the aim of these companies believe it or not!).

Though it's not inconceivable that review samples are "golden samples, perhaps even hand built," as HDTV Test's David Mackenzie put it.

This statement was made after he bought a Panasonic ST50 with far more noticeable DSE than the sample he reviewed. It's strange that so many problems aren't spotted in reviews, yet show up in abundance once users get their hands on the same model.

Anyway, this is an AV receiver thread, so I won't derail it with more TV talk.