Andrew Everard:Would be interested to know who these 'high
up actual Yamaha techs are': it seems a very strange thing for
employees of a company to say to a consumer regarding their products.
...tell me about it! I thought it was very strange as well. It was honest and refreshing though.<
Basicly i rang and spoke to Yamaha actual technical support and was talking to their techies (not the useless phone support drones) out the back and i happened to mention how disappointed i was at the 65 series and that it wasn't a patch on the older units - he agreed with me repeated everything i had just said and moaned about (more then im writing here) and said that they really are "weak" and to try and find a previous model or go up to the 3900.
Regards,
Matt
up actual Yamaha techs are': it seems a very strange thing for
employees of a company to say to a consumer regarding their products.
...tell me about it! I thought it was very strange as well. It was honest and refreshing though.<
Basicly i rang and spoke to Yamaha actual technical support and was talking to their techies (not the useless phone support drones) out the back and i happened to mention how disappointed i was at the 65 series and that it wasn't a patch on the older units - he agreed with me repeated everything i had just said and moaned about (more then im writing here) and said that they really are "weak" and to try and find a previous model or go up to the 3900.
Regards,
Matt
was just a joke, but these things can and do happen ... Bribery can be 'subtle' ... things like free air tickets/accomodation to shows, free lunch, christmas gifts, etc etc can and do have an influence (I am speaking from experience in the engineering field)
not saying it happens at WHF
not saying it happens at WHF
dim_span:was just a joke, but these things can and do happen ... Bribery can be 'subtle' ... things like free air tickets/accomodation to shows, free lunch, christmas gifts, etc etc can and do have an influence (I am speaking from experience in the engineering field)
not saying it happens at WHF
Of course you're not. You're just implying it does by putting a story, complete with racial stereotypes, into this thread.
not saying it happens at WHF
Of course you're not. You're just implying it does by putting a story, complete with racial stereotypes, into this thread.
Hey everybody lighten up! It's the weekend, the temperature is only -2 and it didn't snow last night. Things just don't get much better than that.
a bit touchy on the racial thingy? ... like I said it was a joke that was cut and pasted from google ....
but seeing we are on the subject, in all the years that you have been working at WHF, have you or any of your collegues ever accepted a free lunch, or accomodation or airticket or any 'promotional gift'?
if so, that would be classed as a form of 'subtle' bribery (in my books)
but seeing we are on the subject, in all the years that you have been working at WHF, have you or any of your collegues ever accepted a free lunch, or accomodation or airticket or any 'promotional gift'?
if so, that would be classed as a form of 'subtle' bribery (in my books)
One quick thing off topic that i feel WHIFI should do is also list what equipment they are using especially for reviewing speakers..... Brands of recievers all have totally different sounds as we all no and for a review of a speaker to get 5 star - joe blogs buys them but has a overly bright receiver and they sound rubbish..... get my point?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much. Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!! Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright etc... but again what speakers were used?
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
Regards,
Matt
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much. Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!! Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright etc... but again what speakers were used?
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
Regards,
Matt
dim_span:a bit touchy on the racial thingy? ... like I said it was a joke that was cut and pasted from google ...
Which makes it alright?
dim_span:but seeing we are on the subject, in all the years that you have been
working at WHF, have you or any of your collegues ever accepted a free
lunch, or accomodation or airticket or any 'promotional gift'?
Of course: all journalists are taken to press launches and the like. PRs like to think it makes a difference to how their brand or product is perceived. And yes, I have a Bang & Olufsen bottle opener.
dim_span:if so, that would be classed as a form of 'subtle' bribery (in my
books)
There's nothing subtle about it, and it certainly isn't bribery, as amazingly (in your books) it has no effect whatsoever. Any journalist sufficiently naive to be swayed by anything like that is heading for a very short career.
Which makes it alright?
dim_span:but seeing we are on the subject, in all the years that you have been
working at WHF, have you or any of your collegues ever accepted a free
lunch, or accomodation or airticket or any 'promotional gift'?
Of course: all journalists are taken to press launches and the like. PRs like to think it makes a difference to how their brand or product is perceived. And yes, I have a Bang & Olufsen bottle opener.
dim_span:if so, that would be classed as a form of 'subtle' bribery (in my
books)
There's nothing subtle about it, and it certainly isn't bribery, as amazingly (in your books) it has no effect whatsoever. Any journalist sufficiently naive to be swayed by anything like that is heading for a very short career.
Andrew Everard:
dim_span:a bit touchy on the racial thingy? ... like I said it was a joke that was cut and pasted from google ...
Which makes it alright?
dim_span:but seeing we are on the subject, in all the years that you have been working at WHF, have you or any of your collegues ever accepted a free lunch, or accomodation or airticket or any 'promotional gift'?
Of course: all journalists are taken to press launches and the like. PRs like to think it makes a difference to how their brand or product is perceived.
dim_span:if so, that would be classed as a form of 'subtle' bribery (in my books)
There's nothing subtle about it, but amazingly (in your books) it has no effect whatsoever.
I was responding to a claim made, gave my personal opinion in a 'jovial lighthearted manner' and to be honest, does not bother me in the slightest
I'm from the 'old school' where I believe that 'there is nothing for free' ... if you disagree with my opion, so be it ...
dim_span:a bit touchy on the racial thingy? ... like I said it was a joke that was cut and pasted from google ...
Which makes it alright?
dim_span:but seeing we are on the subject, in all the years that you have been working at WHF, have you or any of your collegues ever accepted a free lunch, or accomodation or airticket or any 'promotional gift'?
Of course: all journalists are taken to press launches and the like. PRs like to think it makes a difference to how their brand or product is perceived.
dim_span:if so, that would be classed as a form of 'subtle' bribery (in my books)
There's nothing subtle about it, but amazingly (in your books) it has no effect whatsoever.
I was responding to a claim made, gave my personal opinion in a 'jovial lighthearted manner' and to be honest, does not bother me in the slightest
I'm from the 'old school' where I believe that 'there is nothing for free' ... if you disagree with my opion, so be it ...
dim_span:and to be honest, does not bother me in the slightest
Of course it doesn't. Hence all the questions, and not-so-subtle implications.
Of course it doesn't. Hence all the questions, and not-so-subtle implications.
Aaah! .... you see! (Free Bang and Olufsen bottle opener)
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/post/393215.aspx
just joking!
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/post/393215.aspx
just joking!
Yes, and I saw those facilities on a press trip for which Bang & Olufsen (shock horror) picked up the tab.
But hey, keep plugging away - it clearly makes you happy...
(And good to see the search function is being used)
But hey, keep plugging away - it clearly makes you happy...
(And good to see the search function is being used)
Andrew Everard:
Keep plugging away - it clearly makes you happy...
(And good to see the search function is being used)
yea ... am having a 'whale' of a time
Keep plugging away - it clearly makes you happy...
(And good to see the search function is being used)
yea ... am having a 'whale' of a time
dim_span:yea ... am having a 'whale' of a time
Clearly some hilarious double meaning in there, but I fear it eludes me.
Clearly some hilarious double meaning in there, but I fear it eludes me.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
Mattrix:One quick thing off topic that i feel WHIFI should do is also list what equipment they are using especially for reviewing speakers..... Brands of recievers all have totally different sounds as we all no and for a review of a speaker to get 5 star - joe blogs buys them but has a overly bright receiver and they sound rubbish..... get my point?
Yes, you have an axe to grind and you blame WHF because you bought something you don't like. Incidentally if it sounds that bad why did't you take it back? You're quite within your rights to do so. More to the point, why didn't you audition it first?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much.
Don't really account for much? So you'd rather they just plugged it into an oscilloscope rather than actually listen to it?
Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!!
Well, more fool you for taking a manufacturer's power ratings at face value, they almost never stack up in the real world.
Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright ec... but again what speakers were used?
You know there are plenty of exceedingly dull magazines that will give pages of measurements and frequency analysis, all of which means pretty much nothing to most people, feel free to go and read one of those instead if that's what you prefer.
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
I think you'll find that's exactly what they do.
Yes, you have an axe to grind and you blame WHF because you bought something you don't like. Incidentally if it sounds that bad why did't you take it back? You're quite within your rights to do so. More to the point, why didn't you audition it first?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much.
Don't really account for much? So you'd rather they just plugged it into an oscilloscope rather than actually listen to it?
Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!!
Well, more fool you for taking a manufacturer's power ratings at face value, they almost never stack up in the real world.
Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright ec... but again what speakers were used?
You know there are plenty of exceedingly dull magazines that will give pages of measurements and frequency analysis, all of which means pretty much nothing to most people, feel free to go and read one of those instead if that's what you prefer.
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
I think you'll find that's exactly what they do.
Mattrix:
One quick thing off topic that i feel WHIFI should do is also list what equipment they are using especially for reviewing speakers..... Brands of recievers all have totally different sounds as we all no and for a review of a speaker to get 5 star - joe blogs buys them but has a overly bright receiver and they sound rubbish..... get my point?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much. Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!! Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright etc... but again what speakers were used?
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
Regards,
Matt
Can I ask what speakers are you using with it?
Thanks
One quick thing off topic that i feel WHIFI should do is also list what equipment they are using especially for reviewing speakers..... Brands of recievers all have totally different sounds as we all no and for a review of a speaker to get 5 star - joe blogs buys them but has a overly bright receiver and they sound rubbish..... get my point?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much. Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!! Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright etc... but again what speakers were used?
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
Regards,
Matt
Can I ask what speakers are you using with it?
Thanks
You've completely taken most of what ive said out of context.
For starters if you had read properly i wished i had seen a review here before I bought some speakers. What Hifi has had nothing to do with any purchase decision i have made. I've been reading around after the effect of buying x y z etc and found a glowing report by what hifi, where people out "there" have a different opinion and even employees.
Simply taking things back is not always doable and not the general practice in certain countries certainly not for "whim" factor like the USA.
My mentioning about bench testing was purely a suggestion albeit in the wrong thread to assist and HELP what hifi in becoming a better review place. if you had bothered reading furthur I did state that it is great to have a few people together and listen to a avr but MY suggestion to What Hifi is to mention what equipment is being used in their reviews.
I come from a technical background and thought it would be of use for What Hifi to encorporate some factual testing with their reviews. Example being with Onkyos 805 you got great power pretty close to what they stated etc hence it being a brilliant hit and sought after even today in the second hand market....
By not testing actual power ratings What HIFI is NOT helping manufacturers to be more truthful with power figures...
the_lhc:
Mattrix:One quick thing off topic that i feel WHIFI should do is also list what equipment they are using especially for reviewing speakers..... Brands of recievers all have totally different sounds as we all no and for a review of a speaker to get 5 star - joe blogs buys them but has a overly bright receiver and they sound rubbish..... get my point?
Yes, you have an axe to grind and you blame WHF because you bought something you don't like. Incidentally if it sounds that bad why did't you take it back? You're quite within your rights to do so. More to the point, why didn't you audition it first?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much.
Don't really account for much? So you'd rather they just plugged it into an oscilloscope rather than actually listen to it?
Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!!
Well, more fool you for taking a manufacturer's power ratings at face value, they almost never stack up in the real world.
Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright ec... but again what speakers were used?
You know there are plenty of exceedingly dull magazines that will give pages of measurements and frequency analysis, all of which means pretty much nothing to most people, feel free to go and read one of those instead if that's what you prefer.
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
I think you'll find that's exactly what they do.
For starters if you had read properly i wished i had seen a review here before I bought some speakers. What Hifi has had nothing to do with any purchase decision i have made. I've been reading around after the effect of buying x y z etc and found a glowing report by what hifi, where people out "there" have a different opinion and even employees.
Simply taking things back is not always doable and not the general practice in certain countries certainly not for "whim" factor like the USA.
My mentioning about bench testing was purely a suggestion albeit in the wrong thread to assist and HELP what hifi in becoming a better review place. if you had bothered reading furthur I did state that it is great to have a few people together and listen to a avr but MY suggestion to What Hifi is to mention what equipment is being used in their reviews.
I come from a technical background and thought it would be of use for What Hifi to encorporate some factual testing with their reviews. Example being with Onkyos 805 you got great power pretty close to what they stated etc hence it being a brilliant hit and sought after even today in the second hand market....
By not testing actual power ratings What HIFI is NOT helping manufacturers to be more truthful with power figures...
the_lhc:
Mattrix:One quick thing off topic that i feel WHIFI should do is also list what equipment they are using especially for reviewing speakers..... Brands of recievers all have totally different sounds as we all no and for a review of a speaker to get 5 star - joe blogs buys them but has a overly bright receiver and they sound rubbish..... get my point?
Yes, you have an axe to grind and you blame WHF because you bought something you don't like. Incidentally if it sounds that bad why did't you take it back? You're quite within your rights to do so. More to the point, why didn't you audition it first?
Also these fanciful reviews - all well meaning by a panel of people dont really account for much.
Don't really account for much? So you'd rather they just plugged it into an oscilloscope rather than actually listen to it?
Real bench testing is needed. The 1065 for eg is rated for 100w but have all 5 channel driven and you barely get 50w drive 7 channels and that plumets to 30w!!!
Well, more fool you for taking a manufacturer's power ratings at face value, they almost never stack up in the real world.
Now yes where this type of listening review is helpfull is with a few people getting to listen to it and find that its not harsh or bright ec... but again what speakers were used?
You know there are plenty of exceedingly dull magazines that will give pages of measurements and frequency analysis, all of which means pretty much nothing to most people, feel free to go and read one of those instead if that's what you prefer.
What Hifi really does need to help shape the manufacturers and help buyers in promoting truthfull ratings of products.
I think you'll find that's exactly what they do.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
Mattrix:You've completely taken most of what ive said out of context.
Really? You haven't said one positive thing about the magazine yet, in what way is that out of context?
My mentioning about bench testing was purely a suggestion albeit in the wrong thread to assist and HELP what hifi in becoming a better review place.
Do you know how long WHF has been the leading magazine in the sector? And can you make a guess why those other magazines that stuff their reviews full of numbers don't sell as well as WHF? If WHF don't put pages of figures and graphs in their reviews it's because they know their readership aren't interested in all that. If you are, then there's plenty of publications that will cater to your requirements.
I come from a technical background and thought it would be of use for What Hifi to encorporate some factual testing with their reviews. Example being with Onkyos 805 you got great power pretty close to what they stated etc hence it being a brilliant hit and sought after even today in the second hand market....
By not testing actual power ratings What HIFI is NOT helping manufacturers to be more truthful with power figures...
I think you're being a little optimistic there, the only thing that would make manufacturers more realistic in the figures they give is a change in the law. It's a numbers race, nobody is going to voluntarily drop their stated power outputs unless they're forced to.
Really? You haven't said one positive thing about the magazine yet, in what way is that out of context?
My mentioning about bench testing was purely a suggestion albeit in the wrong thread to assist and HELP what hifi in becoming a better review place.
Do you know how long WHF has been the leading magazine in the sector? And can you make a guess why those other magazines that stuff their reviews full of numbers don't sell as well as WHF? If WHF don't put pages of figures and graphs in their reviews it's because they know their readership aren't interested in all that. If you are, then there's plenty of publications that will cater to your requirements.
I come from a technical background and thought it would be of use for What Hifi to encorporate some factual testing with their reviews. Example being with Onkyos 805 you got great power pretty close to what they stated etc hence it being a brilliant hit and sought after even today in the second hand market....
By not testing actual power ratings What HIFI is NOT helping manufacturers to be more truthful with power figures...
I think you're being a little optimistic there, the only thing that would make manufacturers more realistic in the figures they give is a change in the law. It's a numbers race, nobody is going to voluntarily drop their stated power outputs unless they're forced to.
bigboss
Moderator
Mattrix has a point in suggesting that it would help if the speakers are mentioned when testing receivers, although WHF usually does mention when reviewing certain systems to pair them carefully, like this, for example.
"If it's thrills you crave, you'll certainly find a like-minded ally
here - but, at the very least, be careful with your system-matching.
Paired with a similarly stimulating amplifier, things could get
altogether too dramatic"
the_lhc, I think you're being a touch harsh here when responding to Mattrix, although you're correct in pointing out that WHF must be doing something right to be the largest selling AV magazine.
"If it's thrills you crave, you'll certainly find a like-minded ally
here - but, at the very least, be careful with your system-matching.
Paired with a similarly stimulating amplifier, things could get
altogether too dramatic"
the_lhc, I think you're being a touch harsh here when responding to Mattrix, although you're correct in pointing out that WHF must be doing something right to be the largest selling AV magazine.
Alantiggger
Well-known member
My younger brother is like a good few who frequent these pages in that he has superb items in all things hifi and home cinema, he too stopped buying what hifi because it was widely known for ages that what hifi (he said) were always but always putting forward 'sony' at the time of his and others grumblings ... while at the same time certain items from other companies were supposidly a good bit better but what hifi kept banging on about 'sony'.
I myself don't have any qualms about such and love reading all what ya'll got to say about most things.... but it IS a wide-held conception by many that what hifi do tend to favour some companies over others ... so i've heard. (but don't believe)
I forgot to say most items I myself buy are all based on what I read from the what hifi staff or you guys yourselves ... i was just saying that other folk do talk in a negative way about the mag is all.... I think it's brill... the mag I mean
I myself don't have any qualms about such and love reading all what ya'll got to say about most things.... but it IS a wide-held conception by many that what hifi do tend to favour some companies over others ... so i've heard. (but don't believe)
I forgot to say most items I myself buy are all based on what I read from the what hifi staff or you guys yourselves ... i was just saying that other folk do talk in a negative way about the mag is all.... I think it's brill... the mag I mean
Personally all reviews are taken with a pinch of salt, Mark Grant's G1000HD cable got 2 stars out of 5 with a rather badly worded short review in WHF. I know Mark and asked for a cable to use, 2 out of 5 indeed! My Roksan has never sounded better!
Personally all reviews are taken with a pinch of salt
im sure the guys will appreciate that comment
im sure the guys will appreciate that comment
maxflinn:
Personally all reviews are taken with a pinch of salt
im sure the guys will appreciate that comment
Personally means moi, what anyone else does is up to them and for the record I mean every review in every format in every forum/magazine not just what hi-fi
Personally all reviews are taken with a pinch of salt
im sure the guys will appreciate that comment
Personally means moi, what anyone else does is up to them and for the record I mean every review in every format in every forum/magazine not just what hi-fi
mains cables r us:maxflinn:
Personally all reviews are taken with a pinch of salt
im sure the guys will appreciate that comment
Personally means moi, what anyone else does is up to them and for the record I mean every review in every format in every forum/magazine not just what hi-fi
even hdmi cable reviews ?
Personally all reviews are taken with a pinch of salt
im sure the guys will appreciate that comment
Personally means moi, what anyone else does is up to them and for the record I mean every review in every format in every forum/magazine not just what hi-fi
even hdmi cable reviews ?
John Duncan
Well-known member
Alantiggger:
My younger brother is like a good few who frequent these pages in that he has superb items in all things hifi and home cinema, he too stopped buying what hifi because it was widely known for ages that what hifi (he said) were always but always putting forward 'sony' at the time of his and others grumblings ... while at the same time certain items from other companies were supposidly a good bit better but what hifi kept banging on about 'sony'.
I myself don't have any qualms about such and love reading all what ya'll got to say about most things.... but it IS a wide-held conception by many that what hifi do tend to favour some companies over others ... so i've heard. (but don't believe)
I forgot to say most items I myself buy are all based on what I read from the what hifi staff or you guys yourselves ... i was just saying that other folk do talk in a negative way about the mag is all.... I think it's brill... the mag I mean
http://whathifi.com/Sony/Rating_Desc/
My younger brother is like a good few who frequent these pages in that he has superb items in all things hifi and home cinema, he too stopped buying what hifi because it was widely known for ages that what hifi (he said) were always but always putting forward 'sony' at the time of his and others grumblings ... while at the same time certain items from other companies were supposidly a good bit better but what hifi kept banging on about 'sony'.
I myself don't have any qualms about such and love reading all what ya'll got to say about most things.... but it IS a wide-held conception by many that what hifi do tend to favour some companies over others ... so i've heard. (but don't believe)
I forgot to say most items I myself buy are all based on what I read from the what hifi staff or you guys yourselves ... i was just saying that other folk do talk in a negative way about the mag is all.... I think it's brill... the mag I mean
http://whathifi.com/Sony/Rating_Desc/
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