Will Harris:ÿThis is the first time that I've seen any of you really go to town on someone.
No but this insinuates they took it a step further. Which they didn't.ÿ
No but this insinuates they took it a step further. Which they didn't.ÿ
Octopo:
Will Harris: This is the first time that I've seen any of you really go to town on someone.
No but this insinuates they took it a step further. Which they didn't.
Indeed - I think we stayed reasonable in the face of increasingly intense provacation. No bans, no deletions or modding, no swearing.....
Will Harris: This is the first time that I've seen any of you really go to town on someone.
No but this insinuates they took it a step further. Which they didn't.
Indeed - I think we stayed reasonable in the face of increasingly intense provacation. No bans, no deletions or modding, no swearing.....
Clare Newsome:
Oh, and as an aside, IAG - owner of Audiolab - is one of the biggest advertisers in WHF, occupying the premium back-cover position every issue. In fact, there was an advert for the very Audiolab product you mention in the very same issue as that critical review.
I would imagine that IAG's advertising contract was signed and sealed long before the review issue was published, and probably long before they saw a copy of the review. I would also imagine that advertising contracts last for more than one issue, hence the "continued" advertising. It would be unlikely for a manufacturer to pull its advert, having paid a premium price for the back-cover.
Oh, and as an aside, IAG - owner of Audiolab - is one of the biggest advertisers in WHF, occupying the premium back-cover position every issue. In fact, there was an advert for the very Audiolab product you mention in the very same issue as that critical review.
I would imagine that IAG's advertising contract was signed and sealed long before the review issue was published, and probably long before they saw a copy of the review. I would also imagine that advertising contracts last for more than one issue, hence the "continued" advertising. It would be unlikely for a manufacturer to pull its advert, having paid a premium price for the back-cover.
Will yor being far too reasoned and level headed about the whole thing. I was for one was enjoying the fight 
We had no intention of "really going to town" on anyone. Having seen the post we merely wanted to put the record straight. But then, hey, we're a reasonable bunch of people!
pioneer7
Well-known member
Errmm ok here goes,why do people buy products on the recomendations of magazines [WHAT-HiFi]why do readers go onto forums and ask questions about setting up gear, or what to buy? you only have to look on this forum, which i enjoy. The reason [in my opinion]is Guidence, advice, or just a second opinion, no one has to buy anything on anyones say or review of a product, i think it is fair to say that if a bad review is given, that product will not be bought.But get a good review then it is a different ball game, especailly if there are multiple reviews of one product [plasmas, LCDs]and all have 5-Star awards, you only have to read the threads on here, and find that a large number of people want to know which is really the best bit of kit, i.e HDMI Cables i for one have posted asking which one really is the best cable Chord or H-D-Hull both 5-STAR but the Van.Den Hull pipped the Chord because the the VDH was flexible, is it better in PQ terms who knows there probably is no difference, not that i would be able to see anyway, but if the VDH was £10 cheaper than the Chord would that be the cable to go for??.The point is What HiFi MAG Or forum is a guide, to assist in helping with your purchase, to give the pros and cons of certain products, i was going to buy the pioneer LX-71 but i am not now, i will wait untill the cheaper model arrives Pioneer FD-59 [i think]but will wait untill it is reviewed,Why?? because i think it will be as good in PQ and Sound Terms as the 71.with out the features as the LX-71.But i would always use this mag as a guide, we have to remember we do not have the facilitys at home as what the mag has when reviewing a product, and unless we have a million Quid to spend, would it be fair to say we would not get the results that What Hi-Fi get in there listening rooms, i think not, BUT if it means buying a disc or using a set up programme to get us the best out of our purchase, then that can only be good cant it, especailly if it has been recomended by this Mag so i think What Hi-Fi do a pretty good job of assisting and guiding us to buy A/V Hi-Fi with the budget we have, what does annoy me abit though is this ISF Callibration, i see it is starting to appear on amps, you would think that if you are spending £1000 it would sound pretty special, but spend £300 and some one will come roumd and make it sound better, WHY can it not sound better when you have tweeked your self, i dont know may be there will be some thing else that will be able to be tuned for a sum of money, all i know is that as stated many times before let your eyes and ears be the judge and let the Mag guide you, even if people do not agree with the reviews of products, What Hi-Hi will never be able to satisfy every one.
I for one enjoy reading these forums especially if they are a little heated at times, but do not allow them to get like other forums, i personally think you dont have to justify yourselves to the extent you have, i could certainly sense Clares frustration and it showed, but hey we are only human and all have strong feelings, in this case A/V.
This is probably a load of tosh to some who read this but hopefully you will know where i am trying to come from, after all this what forums are for.
I for one enjoy reading these forums especially if they are a little heated at times, but do not allow them to get like other forums, i personally think you dont have to justify yourselves to the extent you have, i could certainly sense Clares frustration and it showed, but hey we are only human and all have strong feelings, in this case A/V.
This is probably a load of tosh to some who read this but hopefully you will know where i am trying to come from, after all this what forums are for.
Mr Orange - Well , no manufacturer gets to read its reviews before they're published, so they wouldn't have known of the poor review for that issue. But according to the OP (wrongly) there is a link between ads and editorial - if that were so, why on earth would we write a poor review of a key advertiser? IAG have continued to advertise long after this (the audiolab review was more than a year ago) and other totally independent reviews of their wide range of products - we've loved some, not others, but only (as ever) on the merits of products as compared to their contemporaries,
pioneer7
Well-known member
pioneer7:i could certainly sense Clares frustration and it showed, but hey we are only human and all have strong feelings, in this case A/V.
I am woman, hear me roar
You have no idea how more pleasantly I should have been spending my afternoon....
I am woman, hear me roar
You have no idea how more pleasantly I should have been spending my afternoon....
pioneer7
Well-known member
You will always have to suffer the fixed review accusation its very handy for puttin down a review that a poster disagreed with. I dont think youll ever get away from it.
pioneer7
Well-known member
pioneer7:But does what i say make any sense???
Much more sense than a lot on this thread, ,but i'm probably the wrong person to ask - it's been a long, emotional day (11th November, anyone? Let's get this in perspective
)
Much more sense than a lot on this thread, ,but i'm probably the wrong person to ask - it's been a long, emotional day (11th November, anyone? Let's get this in perspective
As someone who's had a subscription for over a decade now, and been reading the magazine for a good 10 years plus before that, I've seen a lot of changes over the years in the magazine. In fact, in the hi-fi press full stop.
Of the titles I've read (most over the years), the only ones I've stuck with are this one, more recently Hi Fi World which has a nice old school feel to it (unashamedly I might add, and I think publisher Noel Keywood and editor David Price would agree with that to some extent!) and on the odd occasion, high end hifi+.
WHFS&V these days applies its brush over a broad canvas; tellies, hifi, phones, all in one systems, cabling, hard disk, and so on. Not all of it appeals to me, TVs, projectors, MP3, etc., are all entertainment right enough, but they don't do much beyond the functional as opposed to the desirable for me. I've openly disagreed with the quantity of TV reviews and that at times I can read the magazine in 10 minutes.
Equally, since 1997, I've bought - on the strength of WHF reviews - my current loudspeakers (Mission 733i floorstanders - "superb with all kinds of music"), my former CD player (Kenwood DP7090 - no single quote sticks out with this one, but it struck me that it was almost on a par with the Cyrus 6SE of the day, the Marantz CD-63MkII KI Signature and they were bang on), my current speaker cable (Audioquest type IV - a four star review), my former cable - Van den Hul's The Name, my current amp, my old tape deck (Aiwa ADF850 from 1993), my former amps (Arcam Alpha 5 and NAD 3020A), my former speakers (Mission 751s) and last but not least, my current interconnect between my CD player and my amp (Nordost Blue Heaven).
Apart from listing most of the gear I've bought in recent years, that shouts out to me how much I've valued the magazine's reviews over the last 20-odd years. I can't moan much about the last few issues as there's been a big turn towards two channel gear again and this month carries a review of the latest Chord DAC (the QBD76, not the Chordette, although it features too elsewhere in the current issue) in the Tempations section which HFW covered a while back and both mags give it a great review.
I think the investment the title has put in to the test facilities is pretty impressive, I think the fact you can come on here and speak, not just to some web content floozy, but to the actual editorial team is mind bogglingly good - what more could you reasonably ask for?
Example: I stuck up a post on the HiFi Choice website forum a year or so back in response to an article from a very well known hifi journo who's been on the scene for years and which was dipped in the inkwell of bad science. Not a squeak. I like to think he'd re-read his piece and booked a long holiday...
Anyway, my point is, here we have a case where someone has posted critique of review standards (or policy) and has not only had his questions answered by the Editor In Chief (ma'am!), the tech ed and the online site editor, but had several responses.
I think you must give credit where it's due (I'm not suggesting the OP has done differently here); the magazine is still impartial IMO and required reading for anyone looking to buy or upgrade. I might not agree with all of what I read in WHFS&V, but it appeals to a wide body of people who get a lot from it and it's not difficult to see why.
(By the way, why didn't you review the Marantz SA7001 KI Signature player - just about everything else in their 2-channel product range was covered from the budget end to the top end of the scale; did they forget to send one out?! Hopefully, the new SA8003 will make an appearance this time round...!)
Of the titles I've read (most over the years), the only ones I've stuck with are this one, more recently Hi Fi World which has a nice old school feel to it (unashamedly I might add, and I think publisher Noel Keywood and editor David Price would agree with that to some extent!) and on the odd occasion, high end hifi+.
WHFS&V these days applies its brush over a broad canvas; tellies, hifi, phones, all in one systems, cabling, hard disk, and so on. Not all of it appeals to me, TVs, projectors, MP3, etc., are all entertainment right enough, but they don't do much beyond the functional as opposed to the desirable for me. I've openly disagreed with the quantity of TV reviews and that at times I can read the magazine in 10 minutes.
Equally, since 1997, I've bought - on the strength of WHF reviews - my current loudspeakers (Mission 733i floorstanders - "superb with all kinds of music"), my former CD player (Kenwood DP7090 - no single quote sticks out with this one, but it struck me that it was almost on a par with the Cyrus 6SE of the day, the Marantz CD-63MkII KI Signature and they were bang on), my current speaker cable (Audioquest type IV - a four star review), my former cable - Van den Hul's The Name, my current amp, my old tape deck (Aiwa ADF850 from 1993), my former amps (Arcam Alpha 5 and NAD 3020A), my former speakers (Mission 751s) and last but not least, my current interconnect between my CD player and my amp (Nordost Blue Heaven).
Apart from listing most of the gear I've bought in recent years, that shouts out to me how much I've valued the magazine's reviews over the last 20-odd years. I can't moan much about the last few issues as there's been a big turn towards two channel gear again and this month carries a review of the latest Chord DAC (the QBD76, not the Chordette, although it features too elsewhere in the current issue) in the Tempations section which HFW covered a while back and both mags give it a great review.
I think the investment the title has put in to the test facilities is pretty impressive, I think the fact you can come on here and speak, not just to some web content floozy, but to the actual editorial team is mind bogglingly good - what more could you reasonably ask for?
Example: I stuck up a post on the HiFi Choice website forum a year or so back in response to an article from a very well known hifi journo who's been on the scene for years and which was dipped in the inkwell of bad science. Not a squeak. I like to think he'd re-read his piece and booked a long holiday...
Anyway, my point is, here we have a case where someone has posted critique of review standards (or policy) and has not only had his questions answered by the Editor In Chief (ma'am!), the tech ed and the online site editor, but had several responses.
I think you must give credit where it's due (I'm not suggesting the OP has done differently here); the magazine is still impartial IMO and required reading for anyone looking to buy or upgrade. I might not agree with all of what I read in WHFS&V, but it appeals to a wide body of people who get a lot from it and it's not difficult to see why.
(By the way, why didn't you review the Marantz SA7001 KI Signature player - just about everything else in their 2-channel product range was covered from the budget end to the top end of the scale; did they forget to send one out?! Hopefully, the new SA8003 will make an appearance this time round...!)
Having ploughed through this thread, can I add my voice to those suggesting that some kind of scientific test (with lots of complicated technical instruments with dials and flashing lights and stuff etc.) on the accuracy of cables would be an interesting read. Especially if then compared to reviewers' own, non-scientific impressions of observing the differences on the screen. Well, I'd find it interesting. If it's not considered mainstream enough to go in the mag, could it find a home on the website?
Alec
Well-known member
Clare Newsome:
pioneer7:But does what i say make any sense???
Much more sense than a lot on this thread, ,but i'm probably the wrong person to ask - it's been a long, emotional day (11th November, anyone? Let's get this in perspective
)
Oh well done, insult us all in one go.
You could have spent your time more pleasantly, could you?
Then you should have done so.
I'll repeat, again (with genuine regret taht i have to) that you have a job, and we all pay to read the mag. What time you spend on the forums is, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, up to you, as its unpaid.
Im sorry today has upset you; you are bound to be just one of very many, however.
pioneer7:But does what i say make any sense???
Much more sense than a lot on this thread, ,but i'm probably the wrong person to ask - it's been a long, emotional day (11th November, anyone? Let's get this in perspective
Oh well done, insult us all in one go.
You could have spent your time more pleasantly, could you?
Then you should have done so.
I'll repeat, again (with genuine regret taht i have to) that you have a job, and we all pay to read the mag. What time you spend on the forums is, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, up to you, as its unpaid.
Im sorry today has upset you; you are bound to be just one of very many, however.
al7478:
I'll repeat, again (with genuine regret taht i have to) that you have a job, and we all pay to read the mag. What time you spend on the forums is, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, up to you, as its unpaid.
I'm not sure what the point of this paragraph is - Clare's contracted, as with the rest of the team, to produce the magazine. They put out a title which is by and large inoffensive. Actually, it's very inoffensive.
You pay to read a magazine which is an inoffensive hi-fi related title.
Some of the team come on here and read stuff which is written by some people hiding behind a keyboard who write stuff that - being kind - chances their arm by virtue of their anonimity. "Keyboard heroes" I call them, which is to say, someone who writes something online they'd never dream of saying to someone else's face. There's been plenty on this site that falls in to that category and I think your post borders on it.
I'll repeat, again (with genuine regret taht i have to) that you have a job, and we all pay to read the mag. What time you spend on the forums is, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, up to you, as its unpaid.
I'm not sure what the point of this paragraph is - Clare's contracted, as with the rest of the team, to produce the magazine. They put out a title which is by and large inoffensive. Actually, it's very inoffensive.
You pay to read a magazine which is an inoffensive hi-fi related title.
Some of the team come on here and read stuff which is written by some people hiding behind a keyboard who write stuff that - being kind - chances their arm by virtue of their anonimity. "Keyboard heroes" I call them, which is to say, someone who writes something online they'd never dream of saying to someone else's face. There's been plenty on this site that falls in to that category and I think your post borders on it.
Alec
Well-known member
the record spot:al7478:
I'll repeat, again (with genuine regret taht i have to) that you have a job, and we all pay to read the mag. What time you spend on the forums is, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, up to you, as its unpaid.
someone who writes something online they'd never dream of saying to someone else's face. There's been plenty on this site that falls in to that category and I think your post borders on it.
Yes, i hate them. To my shame, I've been one of them once or twice (have you never?), but I'm not this time.
Nothing i said in that post should need explaining. Clare's responce was aimed at everyone, and was offensive and reactionary.
I am also a little weary of being told how hard WHF staffers work, and how they could be doing something better (see clare's post on the previous page, and many others).
Andrew - how kind of you to recogniose me when you want to have a go, but not when i try to apologise to you. Oh yes, you'd forgotten all about me then had'nt you? Far too busy and important are you to remember plebs like me, when it serves.
I'll repeat, again (with genuine regret taht i have to) that you have a job, and we all pay to read the mag. What time you spend on the forums is, as you have pointed out ad nauseum, up to you, as its unpaid.
someone who writes something online they'd never dream of saying to someone else's face. There's been plenty on this site that falls in to that category and I think your post borders on it.
Yes, i hate them. To my shame, I've been one of them once or twice (have you never?), but I'm not this time.
Nothing i said in that post should need explaining. Clare's responce was aimed at everyone, and was offensive and reactionary.
I am also a little weary of being told how hard WHF staffers work, and how they could be doing something better (see clare's post on the previous page, and many others).
Andrew - how kind of you to recogniose me when you want to have a go, but not when i try to apologise to you. Oh yes, you'd forgotten all about me then had'nt you? Far too busy and important are you to remember plebs like me, when it serves.
.....Oh dear there's always one ...I could have spent my time more pleasantly than reading ill considered replies like the above ..
Claire is right, perspective is needed on a day like today ....and I for one find it very refreshing that that senior members of the editorial team post on the various forums and are prepared to explain reviews ratings etc. Of course I will disagree with some of Claire's and Andrew's views at times .....surely that's what a forum like this is all about?
And for me I don't think anyone's being paranoid here ...the original Post that started this thread really does seem to be based on a pre-conceived agenda rather than a genuine critique of the magazine's quality.
Claire is right, perspective is needed on a day like today ....and I for one find it very refreshing that that senior members of the editorial team post on the various forums and are prepared to explain reviews ratings etc. Of course I will disagree with some of Claire's and Andrew's views at times .....surely that's what a forum like this is all about?
And for me I don't think anyone's being paranoid here ...the original Post that started this thread really does seem to be based on a pre-conceived agenda rather than a genuine critique of the magazine's quality.
al7478:
(have you never?)
I'll make a robust defence, I will argue a point and if I overstep the mark I'll apologise in open forum. Do I pitch up, throw a snarky one out there and run? Nope. Never.
(have you never?)
I'll make a robust defence, I will argue a point and if I overstep the mark I'll apologise in open forum. Do I pitch up, throw a snarky one out there and run? Nope. Never.
Alec
Well-known member
the record spot:al7478:
(have you never?)
I'll make a robust defence, I will argue a point and if I overstep the mark I'll apologise in open forum. Do I pitch up, throw a snarky one out there and run? Nope. Never.
Re-written for clarity's sake.
So the answer is yes. I too have never done the thing you describe in your reply.
I heartily agree that you shouldnt behave differently online to how you do in public, and ive had to preach just that on another forum with some pompous oafs on it.
(have you never?)
I'll make a robust defence, I will argue a point and if I overstep the mark I'll apologise in open forum. Do I pitch up, throw a snarky one out there and run? Nope. Never.
Re-written for clarity's sake.
So the answer is yes. I too have never done the thing you describe in your reply.
I heartily agree that you shouldnt behave differently online to how you do in public, and ive had to preach just that on another forum with some pompous oafs on it.
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