Why I wont be renewing my subscription

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Hello there,

Hopefully this is the right place for this as I feel the need to get some things off my chest about what used to be my favourite AV magazine.

Firstly, some background... I've been reading What Hi-Fi since the early 90s. It was what guided me to my first Hi-Fi system, and I appreciated the informed advice that it gave me. I've had my subscription for a while now.

Recently though I've noticed that things have just gotten to such a low point, I feel I can no longer justify spending money on buying your magazine. Some of the reasons why I will outline below:

1) Poor technical understanding of equipment that is reviewed. For a magazine that is potentially advising people to part with vast sums of their own personal money, you seem to have no published or acknowledged technical standards. I believe you have stated that you use THX or DVE to optimise the displays you review by eye. Is there no-one at What Hi-fi who is ISF certified that can use the correct calibration equipment to ensure things have been calibrated to D65 standards? Is there anyone there who is HAA certified to ensure that the audio equipment you are testing has been set-up correctly too?

If the answer to this is "no" then how are you sure that problems you encounter during testing are faults of the product, or because you've set-up something incorrectly?

We want to see if products can be calibrated to a high standard, not how good they look out of the box. It doesn't need to go to the levels of showing us countless gamma and luminance charts... but some mention of it would be nice, even if it's just to see if you bothered to set these things up correctly!

Another item that highlighted What H-Fi's poor technical understanding, and change of paradigm, was the Audiolab 8000AP review. The AP was slated because 'Lacks the ability to decode high-definition audio soundtracks, which is unacceptable at this price level' for a unit that costs £1000. Which shows a total lack of understanding about these products. Not only Audiolab, but Arcam, Meridian, and numerous other top-end home cinema manufacturers have stated that LPCM is the optimum way to enjoy the HD sound formats. You let the player decode (decoding being a simple case of 'unzipping' an encoded audio file, it either works or it doesn't... no levels of quality of decoding) and then pass this information onto the DAC... whether that be in a processor, an amp, or whatever.

You then wrote about an Arcam processing unit: 'True, you won’t find the
cutting-edge decoding features present in many cheaper components, but
even so, living with this Arcam would never be hard work.'
which you seem to find acceptable, even though the Arcam costs £3750. Totally illogical.

These products are not about having the latest fancy marketing speak, or lots of legacy inputs that are mostly redundant for people. They are purely about getting the best sound for you money. You seem to have lost this essential element in all the manufacturer marketing speak of 'deep colour' (makes no difference until films are made that way!) and other useless modes/features that most people don't need in order to hear brilliantly reproduced music or soundtracks. For the money, the Audiolab has yet to be beaten. You are doing the AV industry a huge travesty by not reviewing this product again, with your informed hat on.

2) Inconsistency and dubious reviews. One thing that is very annoying is the fact that you seem to change your mind on previous reviews. A prime example of this was last year when you compared a Samsung Q97 to a Panasonic PX70. At the end of the comparison you concluded that the Samsung gave you a slightly better picture for the money. However, in following months you awarded the PX70 the award for being the best television in this range. Yet again illogical.

What makes this further dubious is that when I spoke to a representative from Panasonic, AND later a representative from Samsung... they informed me that What H-Fi had never had a Panasonic PX70 in house to test! So how could you review this? Why would two totally seperate companies tell me the same thing? The Samsung representative even suggsted that this had caused the editorial changes seen at What Hi-Fi last year once it had been discovered. Is this what happened? If so, why was there no apology offered to the readership?

3) Bias that cannot be ignored. I've read over and over again how you claim that your advertisers do not affect what you review and how it rates. However this is not what the magazine reflects, except in a few rare circumstances.

A good example of this is Sony. Now they were the only BIG AV manufacturer at your What Hi-Fi live show this year. Your JVCs, Pioneers, Denon, Samsungs etc were all conspicuous by their absence (this begs the question why? Do they no longer have faith in What Hi-Fi either?). After this news was announced, suddenly all the Sony LCD televisions have started to get 5 star ratings. Now I have seen these sets in action, extensively. They are average, nothing more, nothing less. When you compare one of these to a (rightly) 5 star Pioneer Kuro, it's like night & day. The Kuro blows the Sony ranges away in every category. Every professional AV installer in the country knows this, and would never recommend a Sony as the display. They cost the same, or are even more expensive than the Kuros. So how can they be recommended at the same level? It just smacks of favouritism because Sony were kind enough to attend your event.

HDMI cables that are recommended over others because they 'offer deeper colours and make the picture really stand/pop out'. How does an HDMI cable allow more of a colour, or different video information to pass through? Now I am not one of those people who believe non-stop that all HDMI cables are equal, as in each cable there is an analogue timing signal. However, the only thing this can affect is motion and timing (i.e. prevent break-up of the picture, or HDCP handshake loss). There is absolutely no scientific way that one HDMI cable can transfer colours with different saturations, hues, or luminances to another cable. How can you claim this is possible? Again I believe this is down to advertising bias, as there's no possible reason you could claim otherwise. If you disagree, how about you use the correct gear (a colorimeter and some software to read it) to show, with physical measurements, that a cable does affect the intensity of colour coming through from the source. Prove it and put your money where you mouth is, and end this debate for all your readers once and for all.

I really want to see What Hi-Fi get back to the roots that established it. Before I renew my subsciption again I would want to see evidence that you are testing these things correctly, that you are taking steps to ensure things are calibrated, and that we are getting fair and unbiased reviews and reporting. Please, please address all this and make What Hi-Fi the respectable magazine it once was. In doing so, you might attract all the big manufacturers back for your next live show in 2009!

All the best,
Eiren
 
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Anonymous

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one thing for sure im looking forward to reading the replies.
 

SouthaK

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bobbys:one thing for sure im looking forward to reading the replies.

Me too! It's a strongly but fairly worded email that deserves and (not doubt) will get a response. I'm not in the industry but I also hear whispers of bias towards to a certain manufacturer but of course they go unrepeated by me (having no evidence of such bias myself).

I'm on tenterhooks...
 

Gerrardasnails

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SouthaK:bobbys:one thing for sure im looking forward to reading the replies.

Me too! It's a strongly but fairly worded email that deserves and (not doubt) will get a response. I'm not in the industry but I also hear whispers of bias towards to a certain manufacturer but of course they go unrepeated by me (having no evidence of such bias myself).

I'm on tenterhooks...

Everyone deserves their say but I'm going to say a couple of things about the OP's rant. Sony's more expensive than Kuros?? Kuros are plasmas, Sonys are LCD. They are rated as best LCD and best plasma. The Pioneers are clearly rated as the best screens.

I also think it's clear that the OP is not a subscriber and far more likely trying to throw a spanner at the WHF staff. I will now sit back and read the riposte.
 
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Anonymous

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A television is a television, LCD or plasma. As such they are comparable.

If anyone from What Hi-Fi wants to check my subscription status they're welcome to message me and I'll supply them my details.

What prompted me to write this was the latest edition of the magazine which I received through the post yesterday via my subscription.
 

professorhat

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I think the only comment I would make is the point on ISF calibration and other forms of calibration which can only be performed by specialists at a reasonably high cost - this is not in defence of the magazine (I'll leave that to them), but just my own view point. I would argue that, since very few people are ever likely to get this done, the majority of the review should be conducted assuming the device has only been calibrated by the user. So for example, with TVs, the THX Optimiser is a tool which is easily available to anybody and as such, a TV calibrated with this is more likely to be a closer match to what the person gets in their home. It is therefore much more relevant for this to be done and reviewed, compared to a review of a TV which has been professionally calibrated, since very few people would have this done.
Now of course, that doesn't mean the set shouldn't be calibrated in this way to see what improvements these make, and, if significant, this should be mentioned in the review as a way of getting a really great picture. Obviously though, the extra cost of the calibration then needs to be taken into account for the value for money rating, since a set which produces a great picture without this could therefore be better value...
Just my opinion.
 
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Anonymous

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Eiren:
A television is a television, LCD or plasma. As such they are comparable.

come on get a grip a car is a car but there a big difference between a 4x4 and a mini
 
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Anonymous

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bobbys:Eiren:
A television is a television, LCD or plasma. As such they are comparable.

come on get a grip a car is a car but there a big difference between a 4x4 and a mini

In all fairness, a 37" plasma and a 37" LCD both have exactly the same job to do. Were as a mini and a 4x4 have completely different design and use intentions. So in no way is that an analogy of what Eiren said.
 
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Anonymous

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professorhat:I think the only comment I would make is the point on ISF calibration and other forms of calibration which can only be performed by specialists at a reasonably high cost - this is not in defence of the magazine (I'll leave that to them), but just my own view point. I would argue that, since very few people are ever likely to get this done, the majority of the review should be conducted assuming the device has only been calibrated by the user. So for example, with TVs, the THX Optimiser is a tool which is easily available to anybody and as such, a TV calibrated with this is more likely to be a closer match to what the person gets in their home. It is therefore much more relevant for this to be done and reviewed, compared to a review of a TV which has been professionally calibrated, since very few people would have this done.

Now of course, that doesn't mean the set shouldn't be calibrated in this way to see what improvements these make, and, if significant, this should be mentioned in the review as a way of getting a really great picture. Obviously though, the extra cost of the calibration then needs to be taken into account for the value for money rating, since a set which produces a great picture without this could therefore be better value...

Just my opinion.

That's certainly true to an extent, however everyone can pick up a relatively cheap (<£100) meter themselves, and free software, and get a far more accurate set-up than going by eye.

Most people just buy the sets and leave them as set straight out of the box. What Hi-Fi should really be advocating people getting the most out of their sets, which they do. However, people want to know just how good the sets are pushed to their full capabilities.

If What Hi-Fi did this they would know that the latest Panasonic Viera sets have omitted several essential picture controls that are needed to get an accurate picture from. There's no controls for setting the greyscale on them at all! Readers need to know these things, and because What Hi-Fi is not calibrating them correctly... they'll never get to hear of this until they've bought it!
 

Sliced Bread

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lets be fair here

Eiren:We want to see if products can be calibrated to a high standard, not how good they look out of the box.
I've been reading the magazine since about 2000 and the magazine has always given the advice that you shouldn't settle for the out of the box calibration, as it is set up for the sho room floor (i.e. contrast too bright etc...)

Eiren:Hi-Fi live show this year. Your JVCs, Pioneers, Denon, Samsungs etc were all conspicuous by their absence (this begs the question why? Do they no longer have faith in What Hi-Fi either?)
The credit crunch is going to have a severe effect on the sales of luxury goods. Many companies are tightening there belts in order to weather the storm. Whether it is wise to cut marketing budgets is another mater though.

Eiren:After this news was announced, suddenly all the Sony LCD televisions have started to get 5 star ratings.
Maybe there products are good at the moment.

Eiren:HDMI cables that are recommended over others because they 'offer deeper colours and make the picture really stand/pop out'. How does an HDMI cable allow more of a colour, or different video information to pass through?
Try it and decide for yourself. it worked for me. DTS HD Master audio is 24MBPS. That is 24 million pieces of information passed down a cable every second. That is ALOT. Just as in analogue cables where detail is lost through loss of information, it will take an exceptional cable to get that much information sent through without any errors at all. My understanding is that the players have error correction to try and cope with this loss of data.
 

Ravey Gravey Davy

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JohnDuncan:I can't find the thread, but I thought that two of the staffers were ISF certified......

I remember that too- it was a post by Clare defending another attack on WHF,but I cannot find it either.I am sure if this is the case it will be on here shortly.
 
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Anonymous

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Oh my God! It was a toss up between reading the first post or watching Gone With The Wind so I chose the latter instead
 

Clare Newsome

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I'm on the road right now, so can't dwell on an equally lengthy response. Key points:

1) Yes, ISF skills on team

2) TV/AV part of Sony were NOT exhibiting at our Show - only the VAIO and PlayStation 3 divisions. Biggest TV presence was from LG - someone who's never won a TV Award from us and rarely get a great rating, as regular readers will know.

3) We definitely had that Panasonic TV in for review - do you think manufacturers know everything about our reviewing? Again, as regular readers here and in the magazine will know ,we often buy kit if it's not supplied.

4) Our tests do not contradict each other - we test everything consisently on a performance per pound basis, and comparatively. That means a product's star rating and market-ranking can change along with its price and new entrants coming into the arena.

Sorry you no long want to subscribe. I hope many others will continue to benefit from the genuine desire our dedicated team has to communicate news, reviews and advice via the magazine and here online.

I will return later with a more detailed response...
 

Clare Newsome

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Oh, and we gave Panasonic, Samsung and Pioneer Awards this year, too, including saying that technically the Kuro is the best TV set you can buy - but we're also real-world enough to know that not everyone can afford the money or space for 50in+ plasma TVs. So, the Pioneer got a best in class (Best 50in+ TV), but we're not going to ignore 26-50in sets and take a 'Kuro or nothing' stance.
 

professorhat

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Eiren:That's certainly true to an extent, however everyone can pick up a relatively cheap (<£100) meter themselves, and free software, and get a far more accurate set-up than going by eye.
I'm not sure I would class that as cheap when compared to the THX Optimiser which is free - most people aren't even aware of this so letting people know they already own and can use a tool is good advice. Tell them to spend circa £100 on a meter, download some software, test light levels etc. and a lot of people are going to ask "Why should I?" and cry "These things should just work out of the box!" and the like and then lose interest in what you have to say. Far more sensible to point them to a tool they probably already own on DVD and say, "Just try it, only takes a few minutes and I'll bet you the picture is better!".
And what on earth is wrong with setting something up by eye? Are you telling me it would be better to set something up using a meter, even if you actually prefer it on another setting by eye? That's just plain silly!
EDIT - oh, and I'm talking about your average user here i.e. people who just want to buy a TV or a Hi-Fi, quickly set it up and then watch / listen and enjoy it. As opposed to the sort of guys who regularly run signals through crazy science equipment to ensure the signal is absolutely perfect before deciding it's okay to listen to.
 

Clare Newsome

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Though of course we have also regularly advocated the use of a Spyder meter/calibrator if you really feel DVE/THX isn't enough for you and you don't want to splash out on ISF calibration....

Right, I reallly must go now....
 

The_Lhc

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JohnNewman:
DTS HD Master audio is 24MBPS. That is 24 million pieces of information passed down a cable every second. That is ALOT. Just as in analogue cables where detail is lost through loss of information, it will take an exceptional cable to get that much information sent through without any errors at all. My understanding is that the players have error correction to try and cope with this loss of data.

Pretty exceptional cable? Cat6e Gigabit (that's Gigabit, ie 1000Mbps, DTS HD Master is 24Mbps, megaBITS, not megabytes, that would be MBps) ethernet cable is about 50p/metre. That's 50 pence, not 60 quid, like some HDMI cables are...

It's only ALOT because 24 million per second sounds like a big number, but in terms of relative data-rates it's not actually that much, ethernet surpassed 24Mbps more than a decade ago.
 
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Ravey Gravey Davy:
JohnDuncan:I can't find the thread, but I thought that two of the staffers were ISF certified......

Found it ( yes it is slow at work today) here

Thanks for that link. It's very interesting as Neil Davidson is the guy that organises and facilitates ISF training in the UK & Europe. So he knows his stuff! Remember I was asking if they had ISF and HAA certified staff because the magazine shows no evidence that these standards are being practiced, as shown in the fact that no-one picked up the Viera sets cannot be calibrated correctly using the user menus. What I wanted to see was that these standards were being used as a reference to test displays.

Thanks for the brief replies, Clare. Look forward to the detailed responses to alleviate some of my concerns.
 

Andy Clough

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Just to add to the points Clare has already made:

1) We invested £1m+ in our suite of six test rooms in Teddington Studios, including a TV test room in which the walls are coated with special grey and black paint (and with no windows) to ensure no light seepage and a consistent environment in which to do A-B comparisons of different sets.

2) Do you seriously think we would publish a review of anything if we haven't actually had the item in for test? Ludicrous.

3) We pander to advertisers: so that would be why the review of Pioneer's new KRL-37V, which got a four-star review, appeared next to a John Lewis web ad for the same new Pioneer model then. Given your argument, you'd suggest it would get a five star review because of the ad. It didn't.

A more detailed response coming up shortly from our Technical Editor.
 

Ketan Bharadia

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Hi Eiren,

Yes, we have members of staff who have been on both the ISF and HAA courses you mention. We've also reviewed a lot of different equipment over the years and that experience is handy too.

We choose to use the THX option most because that's the one the vast majority of our readership can get access to most easily.

Audiolab 8000AP review:

In our experience there is no obvious sonic hierarchy between decoding on-board the player and doing the number crunching in the processor.

In comparisons our vote has gone both ways. We would suggest hearing the results both ways and deciding which one sounds best for you rather than relying solely on technical reasons.

It could be argued the small specialist brands you mention don't include on-board decoding because they don't have the development resources of industry majors rather than any performance related reasons.

In our reviews we always try to balance performance, price and features. Our verdicts reflect that.

The Arcam processor was reviewed back in 2006 whereas the Audiolab was tested in 2008. By 2008 even budget AV amplifiers had HD-decoding built-in. That's why we were more critical of the Audiolab.

Panasonic/ Samsung

It's very hard to review (and photograph) TV sets when you don't have them. We had and tested them. The company representatives you spoke to were mistaken.

I'm not sure of the exact Panasonic/Samsung sets you are talking about when you say we were inconsistent. Give me more details and I'll look into it.

Bias

We try to be as fair as possible and aren't influenced by whether a company comes to our show or not. The likes of Naim and Cyrus have got very good reviews recently and neither of them were at the show. How would you explain that?

Sony TVs

So, you disagree with our opinion on the Sony sets. You're perfectly entitled to. We think people should always have an audition before deciding, and go with whatever they like best, even if it's different to what
we recommend.

HDMI cables

This topic has been covered to death elsewhere on theis Forum. If you look/listen with an open mind we think you'll see differences. If you don't, then that's great and you save some money.

I hope this makes our view clearer.
 
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Anonymous

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Andy Clough:
Just to add to the points Clare has already made:

1) We invested £1m+ in our suite of six test rooms in Teddington Studios, including a TV test room in which the walls are coated with special grey and black paint (and with no windows) to ensure no light seepage and a consistent environment in which to do A-B comparisons of different sets.

2) Do you seriously think we would publish a review of anything if we haven't actually had the item in for test? Ludicrous.

3) We pander to advertisers: so that would be why the review of Pioneer's new KRL-37V, which got a four-star review, appeared next to a John Lewis web ad for the same new Pioneer model then. Given your argument, you'd suggest it would get a five star review because of the ad. It didn't.

A more detailed response coming up shortly from our Technical Editor.

Thanks for the reply, Andy.

1) That's all fine if you've got the perfect test environment, but it makes no difference if things aren't being tested correctly and set-up correctly in the first place. What I was looking for was some confirmation of the process that is used, as there's no mention of it in the magazine. There's no indication that once calibrated if there's much difference from out of the box or standard settings. There's no mention on the Viera screens about them missing vital picture controls.

2) Hence why I wanted to hear straight from the horse's mouth, so-to-speak. I understand it's a real world publishing environment with strict deadlines. As a reader it's good to get confirmation that shortcuts aren't taken to ensure deadlines are met.

3) I understand there are exceptions to this, however as someone reading through the magazine each month, it seems that this is the exception rather than the rule. Isn't Clare Newsome also an associate editor on the official Sony Magazine? (also is it the same Clare that used to write for Super Play magazine back in the 90s? I loved that magazine!).

Thanks for responding though. I realise I have been very critical, and I am looking forward to the detailed replies.
 
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Anonymous

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Ketan Bharadia:
Hi Eiren,

Yes, we have members of staff who have been on both the ISF and HAA courses you mention. We've also reviewed a lot of different equipment
over the years and that experience is handy too.

We choose to use the THX option most because that's the one the vast majority of our readership can get access to most easily.

Audiolab 8000AP review:

In our experience there is no obvious sonic hierarchy between decoding on-board the player and doing the number crunching in the processor.

In comparisons our vote has gone both ways. We would suggest hearing the results both ways and deciding which one sounds best for you rather than relying solely on technical reasons.

It could be argued the small specialist brands you mention don't include on-board decoding because they don't have the development
resources of industry majors rather than any performance related reasons.

In our reviews we always try to balance performance, price and features. Our verdicts reflect that.

The Arcam processor was reviewed back in 2006 whereas the Audiolab was tested in 2008. By 2008 even budget AV amplifiers had HD-decoding
built-in. That's why we were more critical of the Audiolab.

Panasonic/ Samsung

It's very hard to review (and photograph) TV sets when you don't have them. We had and tested them. The company representatives you spoke
to were mistaken.

I'm not sure of the exact Panasonic/Samsung sets you are talking about when you say we were inconsistent. Give me more details and I'll
look into it.

Bias

We try to be as fair as possible and aren't influenced by whether a company comes to our show or not. The likes of Naim and Cyrus have
got very good reviews recently and neither of them were at the show. How would
you explain that?

Sony TVs

So, you disagree with our opinion on the Sony sets. You're perfectly entitled to. We think people should always have an audition before
deciding, and go with whatever they like best, even if it's different to what
we recommend.

HDMI cables

This topic has been covered to death elsewhere on theis Forum. If you look/listen
with an open mind we think you'll see differences. If you don't, then that's
great and you save some money.

I hope this makes our view clearer.

Crikey, replies coming in thick and fast now! Thanks again.

Firstly, the Audiolab review. I think you just said it best, even budget AV amps have audio decoding built in. This indicates that it's not a marker for quality. If you have HAA accredited staff on-board, surely it's not too much of a herculean task for them to compare and measure any differences between a bit-stream HD audio output and a decoded LPCM output? Put the debate to bed once and for all?

The televisions in questions were the Samsung Q97 and the Panasonic PX70, both compared in the June 2007 magazine.

What process do your ISF trained staff go through to test displays? How are they set-up etc?

In regards to HDMI cables, the topic wouldn't need to be done to death if you could actually show real world qualitative figures showing the difference. It's very easy for your ISF staff to be able to measure luminance, hue, saturation changes due to different cables. Not just because a review 'perceives' an HDMI cable to have a 'better picture'. Qualify these statements with facts, because you have a £1+ test room that allows you to do this!

Thanks for listening/reading.
 

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