I hadn't really thought about that, I'm just curious as to why Oldric doesn't trust AVI, he posts quite a lot in AVI threads.Ajani said:
steve_1979
Well-known member
Do AVI sell just the slave speakers without the DAC and pre amp?
I don't think that they do with the ADM9's but I could be wrong.
I don't think that they do with the ADM9's but I could be wrong.
steve_1979 said:
I don't think they do with the ADM9's but they might with the 40s since those are custom order.
chebby
Well-known member
Phileas said:
For people who want to choose (or already have) their own 'front end' and simply want active speakers to hang off it.
There might be a lot of people with pre-amps/receivers/DACs/hybrid CD & DAC devices etc. who could be in the market for a domestically acceptable/traditional looking pair of floorstanding actives (a pretty rare beast) and don't need or want built-in DAC and pre-amp.
It is perfectly possible that there are people with analogue sources and a pre-amp who would like high quality, well finished active floorstanders and don't need digital at all.
Why miss out on a potential extra market when no change has to be made to the product? (Except increasing the number of 'slave' boxes produced.)
Chebby
Well, I'm not sure how much cheaper two slaves would be. I'd rather have the master which gives more options. (I take your point about AV pre-amp but otherwise I'd just sell the extra boxes)
Well, I'm not sure how much cheaper two slaves would be. I'd rather have the master which gives more options. (I take your point about AV pre-amp but otherwise I'd just sell the extra boxes)
chebby
Well-known member
Phileas said:
I don't think - at this level - you are going to get an awful lot of penny pinchers*, and i'm sure it's not beyond AVI to set a price that gives them their expected percentage return.
*More likely someone ridding themselve of a bunch of power amps but wanting to keep source
Phileas said:
Agreed. I don't really see the point either, as I'd much rather just have the whole system and sell my existing DAC/Pre (or use it in a 2nd system).
As I've said before; the remote controlled DAC/Pre is what makes the AVIs so special. Take that away and it's just another pair of active speakers.
chebby
Well-known member
Ajani said:
Who is to say there wouldn't be a market for both configurations? (Especially if the DAC'less actives were special order only then there would be little or no financial risk in finding out.)
All AVI would need to do is offer the option, work out a price, and see what happens. If no-one bites, no loss.
Ajani
Earlier in the thread it appears you haven't heard them.
You must have. I wouldn't be so dismissive of something I hadn't heard.
Earlier in the thread it appears you haven't heard them.
You must have. I wouldn't be so dismissive of something I hadn't heard.
Ajani said:
Well, I reckon they're probably a bit more than just another pair of active speakers (I may be slightly biased).
richardw42 said:
Huh??? I don't see what I said that you found dismissive. These speakers are right up there on my next upgrade list. But I want the whole package DAC,Pre, Amp & Speakers (so the ADM40s as they are) and not just a pair of slaves.
Phileas said:Ajani said:
Well, I reckon they're probably a bit more than just another pair of active speakers (I may be slightly biased).
No. I'm talking factually, not about whether you prefer how they sound versus other active speakers. The ADM9s caused a major stir because they took the active speaker concept to the logical next step (Remote Pre and DAC); essentially a full high quality system in a very convenient package. Take that away and they are just active speakers. I'm not arguing about whether they are the best actives available for the money or anything like that.
richardw42 said:
I suspect that you don't really get what the current discussion is about. It's not an attack on the ADM40s. We are discussing whether selling a version of the 40s without the DAC and Pre makes sense.
chebby said:
Hold up... I totally agree with you that AVI should offer that option if people request it. It would be easy to do since all 40s are currently special order... I just don't see why I would want to order just the slaves, as a customer. That seems like removing the unique part of the speakers and risking having a much lower resale value if I ever want to sell...
Unless the 40s without the DAC and Pre are MUCH MUCH MUCH cheaper, I just don't see the appeal.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Phileas said:Ok Ajani. I knew what you meant
LOL... I suspected you did, but I responded just in case.
chebby
Well-known member
Ajani said:
That's "the argument from personal incredulity".
I should think there are many people using the same product (like speakers) who thinks others are totally bonkers for enjoying a record player based system (with the same speakers) when they personally prefer a DAC and digital streaming or a CD player.
Who cares if someone - for instance - doesn't need a built-in DAC but just wants a high quality, well finished, pair of active floorstanding speakers?
Just because you don't personally see the appeal others might see lots of appeal. (They do. We know many companies shift a lot of active speakers that don't include DACs and pre-amps.)
I wouldn't expect a pair of ADM40s (without DAC and pre-amp) to go for less than £2500, maybe more. Furthermore i'd expect to see quite a few people interested in them.
(How many other floorstanding active speakers with Spendor like finish and a range of real veneers are there on the market right now?)
Ajani said:
If I was in the market for some in the living room, I'd be tempted for this option and run them through AV receiver pre-outs, all the inputs would be into that anyway. A few hundred less would be tempting.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Zero cost differential would be my guess. Any savings in parts would be negated by costs in having to do something different. And there'd be no volume control at all, right? So no ability to balance gain against preamp output. Lots of hum, perhaps?
chebby said:
Here we just have to agree to disagree. You think there would be a strong market and a price around £2500. I suspect the price would be closer to £2800 and I don't see much market since the price difference is minimal.
Even if I had a TT and Pre, I'd spend the extra £200 to get the fully featured model, since I could always use the analog input and set the volume at 100% and forget it anyway. Further, if I found I prefer the AVI pre then I could sell my own pre (likely for more than the £200 difference anyway!).
I'm sure if enough customers request active speakers free of the DAC and Pre, then AVI will offer it. I doubt the demand is that high or they would probably have launched a slave version of the 9T without DAC or Pre years ago.
Overdose
Well-known member
chebby said:
I think that you might have missed the point made by Ajani. The exclusion of some relatively cheap components will not drastically alter the price of the product, but would dramtically alter its functionality. The exclusion of the DAC and preamp might save less than £100 in the overal cost of over £3500? For that relatively miniscule saving, you are trading quite a lot of product ability. They are then indeed, just another pair of active speakers, regardless of performance.
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