Unity control app ... 25 GBP !!! ???

[Sliced Bread]

Andrew Everard:Not really any

about it, just that Naim will tell you that the take-up on Uniti has hugely exceeded expectations, but like most companies in this sector is unlikely to reveal actual sales figures.

Not what I was implying...just a smiley to lift the mood

But back to the main point...the bottom line is that without knowing the size of the market we cannot really judge if £25 is too steep.

It all depends upon the logic behind developing the app in the first place. Was it designed as a means of increasing the overall appeal of the Uniti (which appears to be the approach of Sonos - as the OP stated that their app is free), or was it developed as a source of revenue in its own right. Maybe it was intended as a bit of both. From the price, I would say the later...but without any figures I cannot know for sure.

Software development is not cheap.

 

[John Duncan]

JohnNewman:Software development is not cheap.

 

[Sliced Bread]

JohnDuncan:JohnNewman:Software development is not cheap.

?

 

[John Duncan]

Well let's just say John that people are asking me ever more frequently why it's so ******* expensive...

 

[Sliced Bread]

JohnDuncan:Well let's just say John that people are asking me ever more frequently why it's so ******* expensive...
Hehe I know what you mean

I work for a software development company and the amount of effort involved is enormous. Especially if you want the software to be good at what it does.

 

[The_Lhc]

JohnNewman:the_lhc:JohnNewman:Price is quite understandable.

They are not going to be selling that many copies and the developers need to make a return on it somehow.

Bull, they should have factored that in to the rrp of the hardware. The Sonos iPhone wasn't even thought of when Sonos released their hardware and yet they've taken their app on without charging for it. Yes Sonos sells more but their unit price is less (thank dog...).

As Andrew said, it is an optional extra and therefore it would not have been taken into account when developing the hardware.

And in that respect is EXACTLY the same as the Sonos iPhone app. Which is... FREE!

You need to look at the number of units sold (not a huge amount), then the number of owners who also have an iphone / itouch, then the number of those who feel the need to replace the standard remote control with the app. The target audience is not that large.

Yes, the same as you would for people who own Sonos and an iPhone, the percentage of owners with both is probably going to be similar and as I said, the Sonos hardware is cheaper, so there's less margin to work with to pay for development of an app but still Sonos don't see the need to charge for it.

I'm not sure who developed it, but it is likely to be an independent developer(s) working in collaboration with Naim. Developing software is time consuming, it needs to be designed, coded and tested. By the time you divide the profits between the developers, Naim and iTunes the end profit will need to be worth the developers time.

I *think* (although I might be wrong) the Sonos app was developed by one of their workers, in his own time, as an unsupported offering. When it became popular Sonos pulled it in and gave it official status. It took a while for that to happen though (a year or more). There's a pretty reasonable Android app that a lone user has developed in his own time, if that proves popular I wouldn't be surprised if Sonos bring that in house either and I don't expect them to charge for it either.

I'm guessing, since the Uniti system is so new, that their app is actually something they reasoned was a good idea fairly early on, so, at risk of repeating myself, is something they should have accounted for from the start. IMO.

Whether the market feels that the price is right is another matter. I suspect that a fair few people who want the app will buy one, after all £25 is a dip in the ocean when you consider the price of the hardware plus speakers.

That's one way of looking at it, the other way is "Hang on, I've paid over £2k for this and now you want ANOTHER £25?". Look at all the other manufacturers providing iRemotes, such as Pioneer, for their new AV amps, they aren't charging either and most of them are in excess of a grand.

 

[John Duncan]

See, Andy? See?

 

[John Duncan]

the_lhc:"Hang on, I've paid over £2k for this and now you want ANOTHER £25?"

You could say the same about speaker cables (except add a hundred in front of it).

 

[Clare Newsome]

JohnDuncan:Well let's just say John that people are asking me ever more frequently why it's so ******* expensive...

I would never use such language

. There'd be far more asterisks

 

[scene]

JohnDuncan:the_lhc:"Hang on, I've paid over £2k for this and now you want ANOTHER £25?"

You could say the same about speaker cables (except add a hundred in front of it).

Some points:

1. As others have stated, other people charging more or less for their systems provide free control apps (on an iPod) or free controllers.
2. Speaker cable is not the same a controller. If you buy a new pair of speakers, you can still use your existing speaker cables
3. You are not restricted to buying speaker cable from the speaker manufacturer.

Though having said all this, Sonos charge £100+ for their controller and provide a free iPod application - maybe this is the way to go...

EDIT: Sorry - £100 for CR200 is pure wishful thinking - it's around £270

 

[John Duncan]

scene:Sonos charge £100+ for their controller

Really? The Naim one is free.

 

[scene]

JohnDuncan:scene:Sonos charge £100+ for their controller

Really? The Naim one is free.

But the controller application they do for the iPod Touch/iPhone is free... Strange world, isn't it?

 

[chebby]

scene:1. As others have stated, other people charging more or less for their systems provide free control apps (on an iPod) or free controllers.

Naim include their own controllers within the price of the product.

Example.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I appreciate that the Sonos app is free and they've absorbed the cost of it (whether they've developed it or not), but Sono are in a better position to absorb this cost, as their trade prices are pretty naff. The most you ever see off Sonos is about 10% - this is because retailers can't afford to sell it for any less! A little similar to iPods - it's the manufacturer making most of the money, not the retailer.....

 

[The_Lhc]

JohnDuncan:the_lhc:"Hang on, I've paid over £2k for this and now you want ANOTHER £25?"

You could say the same about speaker cables (except add a hundred in front of it).

Well, apart from the fact that speaker cables are a necessity, cables are an open market, so you have a choice over how much you want to spend on them (or not) and generally speaking, you aren't buying the cables from the same manufacturer as the rest of the hardware (generally, I know some do but even then you're not required to buy those particular cables).

 

[The_Lhc]

FrankHarveyHiFi:I appreciate that the Sonos app is free and they've absorbed the cost of it (whether they've developed it or not), but Sono are in a better position to absorb this cost, as their trade prices are pretty naff. The most you ever see off Sonos is about 10% - this is because retailers can't afford to sell it for any less! A little similar to iPods - it's the manufacturer making most of the money, not the retailer.....

So how much are you expecting to be able to discount the Uniti stuff?

 

[scene]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
I appreciate that the Sonos app is free and they've absorbed the cost of it (whether they've developed it or not), but Sono are in a better position to absorb this cost, as their trade prices are pretty naff. The most you ever see off Sonos is about 10% - this is because retailers can't afford to sell it for any less! A little similar to iPods - it's the manufacturer making most of the money, not the retailer.....

Yes, I can tell from the consistency of Sonos pricing across the board. But in the long run, Sonos must be cutting their own throats on the Controller front because who's going to buy a £270 (sorry - not sure where I got the £100 from in my earlier post - wishful thinking?) controller when they can get a more functionally rich iPod Touch for £135 and download the free controller app?

 

[Clare Newsome]

I've talked to Sonos about this - their sales have shot up since they introduced the iPhone App. It's almost a marketing tool for them (which is another reason it's free). Add in the fact that you still get a controller bundled with the system and it's a win-win for them at the moment.

 

[The_Lhc]

JohnDuncan:scene:Sonos charge £100+ for their controller

Really? The Naim one is free.

The Sonos one is actually £279!

And yes this is a lot but if you have an iPhone, they give you the option of not having (and therefore not paying for) the controller.

I suspect the reason Sonos charge for the controller is because there is effectively no limit to the number of controllers you can have (there is actually a limit, it's 32 but it's unlikely anyone is going to have that many, so effectively there's no practical limit), it's anywhere from 1 to 32. Therefore they price controllers seperately to give people the flexibility to buy more controllers if they wish (it's only necessary to have more than one if you regularly have more than one person listening to different music in different zones, otherwise one controller will happily handl all the zones).

This also allows you to buy more zone players without having to incur the cost of an additional controller each time (Which you can guarantee people would complain about).

And don't forget a bundle of two zone players and a controller is still less than any of the Uniti kit.

 

[The_Lhc]

scene:FrankHarveyHiFi:
I appreciate that the Sonos app is free and they've absorbed the cost of it (whether they've developed it or not), but Sono are in a better position to absorb this cost, as their trade prices are pretty naff. The most you ever see off Sonos is about 10% - this is because retailers can't afford to sell it for any less! A little similar to iPods - it's the manufacturer making most of the money, not the retailer.....

Yes, I can tell from the consistency of Sonos pricing across the board. But in the long run, Sonos must be cutting their own throats on the Controller front because who's going to buy a £270 (sorry - not sure where I got the £100 from in my earlier post - wishful thinking?) controller when they can get a more functionally rich iPod Touch for £135 and download the free controller app?

Well there is a downside to the iPhone app, it only works if you're in range of your own wireless network as it cannot join the Sonos wireless network, unlike the standard controller. This is one reason for having a standard controller.

Speaking personally, if and when I get an S5 for the kitchen, I'll probably move my CR100 into the kitchen with it, the other two zones are in range of my router, so I'll just use the Android app for those.

 

[Clare Newsome]

the_lhc:The Sonos one is actually £279!

And yes this is a lot but if you have an iPhone, they give you the option of not having (and therefore not paying for) the controller.

I suspect the reason Sonos charge for the controller is because there is effectively no limit to the number of controllers you can have (there is actually a limit, it's 32 but it's unlikely anyone is going to have that many, so effectively there's no practical limit), it's anywhere from 1 to 32. Therefore they price controllers seperately to give people the flexibility to buy more controllers if they wish

To clarify, you can buy additional controllers - and other standalone Sonos components - but every (official) Sonos bundle comes with a controller. There's not a bundle option yet where you can opt out of buying the controller.

 

[The_Lhc]

JohnDuncan:scene:Sonos charge £100+ for their controller

Really? The Naim one is free.

And looking at it, so it should be, it's just a standard remote control, not exactly on a par with the Sonos touchscreen controller is it?

 

[The_Lhc]

Clare Newsome:
the_lhc:The Sonos one is actually £279!

And yes this is a lot but if you have an iPhone, they give you the option of not having (and therefore not paying for) the controller.

I suspect the reason Sonos charge for the controller is because there is effectively no limit to the number of controllers you can have (there is actually a limit, it's 32 but it's unlikely anyone is going to have that many, so effectively there's no practical limit), it's anywhere from 1 to 32. Therefore they price controllers seperately to give people the flexibility to buy more controllers if they wish

To clarify, you can buy additional controllers - and other standalone Sonos components - but every (official) Sonos bundle comes with a controller. There's not a bundle option yet where you can opt out of buying the controller.

I did mention the bundle at the end of my post!

 

[chebby]

Perhaps this £25 app can be likened better to Naim's optional £120 N-Link for connecting iPods to the naimuniti.

Not everyone uses an iPod so the N-Link is optional. It is £120 because it is 'proprietary' technology (it bypasses the iPod DAC). If a customer finds that too expensive then there is a choice of using an iPod transport or a dock or a 3.5mm - 3,5mm/RCA lead instead.

The Naim wireless/streaming products, like the naimuniti, all come with remote controllers included. The iPhone app is just an optional extra - for those who have one - just like the N-Link is an optional extra.

My Naim tuner came with a remote control included (worth £85 seperately) and a 5 Pin DIN interconnect (worth £115 as a seperate item) but it did not come with a free roof aerial + installation even though you could argue the tuner is useless without one!

 

[John Duncan]

the_lhc:you have a choice over how much you want to spend on them (or not)

Bit like iPhone apps then?

I think it's expensive as well, but isn't everybody getting a bit up to high doh about something that they don't have to buy because a) there's a controller in the box already, b) they may not have an iPhone or c) they don't actually have a Uniti in the first place...