Understanding sacds

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok just got dire straits brothers in arms on sacd cd but noticed when looking at the titles that some say hybrid ,multi channel cd as the marantz sa8005 is only 2 channel as I see fleetwood Mac rumours but it say multi channel will this album play 2 channel ? And is there anything to look out for when buying sacds as some are very expensive like black sabbath first album is nearly £200 to buy and have the company's stopped releasing scads ? Thanks

 

[Al ears]

Ok just got dire straits brothers in arms on sacd cd but noticed when looking at the titles that some say hybrid ,multi channel cd as the marantz sa8005 is only 2 channel as I see fleetwood Mac rumours but it say multi channel will this album play 2 channel ? And is there anything to look out for when buying sacds as some are very expensive like black sabbath first album is nearly £200 to buy and have the company's stopped releasing scads ? Thanks

The marantz will play the stereo SACD layer, the multi channel layer would be used when playing back through a home theatre set-up using something like a Sony blue-ray player.

Rare SACD's like rare LPs are always going to be expensive.

Not much issued on SACD discs any more, it is mainly the Japanese market that keeps the format going.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Super audio cd is a multichannel music format and was designed to play through multichannel amps or receivers and I reckon you'd need a decent to high end one to get any real satisfaction out of it.will it not down mix into stereo?anyway Sabbath I thinks you should have maybe researched a little bit further before taking the plunge.I was thinking about it back in the early 2000's but I wasn't convinced it would take off + couldn't be bothered with all those speakers in my room,nightmare if you ask me.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok just got dire straits brothers in arms on sacd cd but noticed when looking at the titles that some say hybrid ,multi channel cd as the marantz sa8005 is only 2 channel as I see fleetwood Mac rumours but it say multi channel will this album play 2 channel ? And is there anything to look out for when buying sacds as some are very expensive like black sabbath first album is nearly £200 to buy and have the company's stopped releasing scads ? Thanks

The marantz will play the stereo SACD layer, the multi channel layer would be used when playing back through a home theatre set-up using something like a Sony blue-ray player.

Rare SACD's like rare LPs are always going to be expensive.

Not much issued on SACD discs any more, it is mainly the Japanese market that keeps the format going.

so if i got the fleetwood mac rumours i could still play it on 2 channal even though it says muliti channal ?

 

[Al ears]

Ok just got dire straits brothers in arms on sacd cd but noticed when looking at the titles that some say hybrid ,multi channel cd as the marantz sa8005 is only 2 channel as I see fleetwood Mac rumours but it say multi channel will this album play 2 channel ? And is there anything to look out for when buying sacds as some are very expensive like black sabbath first album is nearly £200 to buy and have the company's stopped releasing scads ? Thanks

The marantz will play the stereo SACD layer, the multi channel layer would be used when playing back through a home theatre set-up using something like a Sony blue-ray player.

Rare SACD's like rare LPs are always going to be expensive.

Not much issued on SACD discs any more, it is mainly the Japanese market that keeps the format going.

so if i got the fleetwood mac rumours i could still play it on 2 channal even though it says muliti channal ?

Yes, the multi channel layer is one of many options. Mark is incorrect in saying SACD's are multi layer designs, as not all are and they were originally designed for stereo playback systems.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

and the hybrid is that cd + sacds all in 1 ?

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Ok.got the stereo bit wrong.buy it's main selling point back in the day was it's multichannel capabilities.pretty much like listening to music in proper dolby digital 5.1.And back then budget multichannel receivers weren't that great in the music department,Arcam's offerings were though to be very musical receivers,but they were very expensive.I'm sure sacd stereo sounds very nice,but you'll need an above average system to get the benefits and lots of cash for the discs themselves.I'd say leave it alone.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok.got the stereo bit wrong.buy it's main selling point back in the day was it's multichannel capabilities.pretty much like listening to music in proper dolby digital 5.1.And back then budget multichannel receivers weren't that great in the music department,Arcam's offerings were though to be very musical receivers,but they were very expensive.I'm sure sacd stereo sounds very nice,but you'll need an above average system to get the benefits and lots of cash for the discs themselves.I'd say leave it alone.

i will not bother with multichannel just intrested in 2 channal only i just did not want to buy the fleetwood mac album if it said mulitchannel and would not play 2 channel as this would be a wast of money if it did not work .

 

[Al ears]

Ok.got the stereo bit wrong.buy it's main selling point back in the day was it's multichannel capabilities.pretty much like listening to music in proper dolby digital 5.1.And back then budget multichannel receivers weren't that great in the music department,Arcam's offerings were though to be very musical receivers,but they were very expensive.I'm sure sacd stereo sounds very nice,but you'll need an above average system to get the benefits and lots of cash for the discs themselves.I'd say leave it alone.

i will not bother with multichannel just intrested in 2 channal only i just did not want to buy the fleetwood mac album if it said mulitchannel and would not play 2 channel as this would be a wast of money if it did not work .

It is a bit confusing isn't it? There is a two channel recording along with the multichannel one on the SACD layer.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Ok.got the stereo bit wrong.buy it's main selling point back in the day was it's multichannel capabilities.pretty much like listening to music in proper dolby digital 5.1.And back then budget multichannel receivers weren't that great in the music department,Arcam's offerings were though to be very musical receivers,but they were very expensive.I'm sure sacd stereo sounds very nice,but you'll need an above average system to get the benefits and lots of cash for the discs themselves.I'd say leave it alone.

i will not bother with multichannel just intrested in 2 channal only i just did not want to buy the fleetwood mac album if it said mulitchannel and would not play 2 channel as this would be a wast of money if it did not work .

It is a bit confusing isn't it? There is a two channel recording along with the multichannel one on the SACD layer.

ok miss read your top post i understand now the disc has both incodeings on the disc 2 channal and multi

 

[emperor's new clothes]

Put the disc in the SA 8005 and it will play the 2 channel SACD by default. You can select the Cd layer should you ever wish to compare. The Marantz UD7007 gives you the choice of multichannel, two channel or CD layer. There are plenty of recent DSD recordings and SACDs, but mostly classical. Hope you enjoy BIA - it was one of the first digitally mastered and recorded albums. Lends itself very well to SACD, IMHO. I have a number of discs from original 70's analogue 16 track tapes and they sound pretty good too - more organic and closer to the original vinyl. HD tracks has started to release DSD downloads and our SA8005s are future proof in this respect. happy listening.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Put the disc in the SA 8005 and it will play the 2 channel SACD by default. You can select the Cd layer should you ever wish to compare. The Marantz UD7007 gives you the choice of multichannel, two channel or CD layer. There are plenty of recent DSD recordings and SACDs, but mostly classical. Hope you enjoy BIA - it was one of the first digitally mastered and recorded albums. Lends itself very well to SACD, IMHO. I have a number of discs from original 70's analogue 16 track tapes and they sound pretty good too - more organic and closer to the original vinyl. HD tracks has started to release DSD downloads and our SA8005s are future proof in this respect. happy listening.

i have all of the dire straits albums on cd and the quality has always been very good with this band . in my time i must of brought brothers in arms about 4 time in my life tape , vinyl , cd , sacd lol

 

[MeanandGreen]

I have Brothers In Arms on both SACD and CD.

The SACD layer on the hybrid disc sounds very good. The CD layer sounds noticibly inferior to the SACD layer. However the standard CD version of the album sounds every bit as good as the SACD layer on the hybrid version.

I have dabbled with SACD a little only in 2 chanel stereo and I think it always sounds very good, but not always better than the ordinary CD releases. Considering how much some SACD albums cost I don't think they are worth it.

I'd like Miles Davis Bitches Brew on SACD, but it was about £50 the last time I checked. I have the CD and it sounds excellent so that will do for me.

 

[davedotco]

The disc is similar to a DVD disc in that it con contain approx 4.7GB per layer, compared to 700MB for a CD, it can also, and usually is, multi layer.

The SACD layer will carry the recording in DSD format and will have a multichannel (5.1) and/or a stereo version, often both. There are a small number of devotees who consider this format superior to the regular PCM recordings of CDs and to have considerable psycoacoustic benefits as well as higher resolution.

However for any of the 'benefits' to be apparent on playback, the recording and the whole mastering process needs to have been carried out in DSD. Legacy recordings, like some of those mentioned above will be converted from analogue or PCM masters thus negating any possible advantage of SACD.

Generally, with the exception of the 'pure DSD' recordings or those in multichannel, the playback quality of the SACD will be pretty much the same as CD and as always the quality of the mastering is paramount.

Beware also that the 5.1 recording on some SACDs may not be DSD at all but low quality 'lossy' Dolby Digital 5.1, that in my limited experience, sound pretty awful.

The high prices come about due to rarity value and collectability in some markets, mainly Japan.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

So like CDs it comes down to how well it was transferred and if it's been compressed I do understand the dual laying thing now but not interested in doing the multi thing only 2 channel I have only brought the dire straits album so far so will see when I get my new cd play which might be tomorrow hopefully if the post is on time and then see what it will sound like . I brought the dire straits album for £11.00 new which I thought was not to bad but as the CD player is new I will have to run it in a bit before it loosens up a bit before I can give my judgment if it will sound the same as the cd version as I will do a comparison of the two but if it sounds the same I have only lost £11 but still got my self a good CD player I will also try running the CD player without the arcam dac and see what I am getting on the sound front with out the dac . but thanks everyone for the info I will let you all no what I think ones I have let things run in a bit

 

[davedotco]

So like CDs it comes down to how well it was transferred and if it's been compressed I do understand the dual laying thing now but not interested in doing the multi thing only 2 channel I have only brought the dire straits album so far so will see when I get my new cd play which might be tomorrow hopefully if the post is on time and then see what it will sound like . I brought the dire straits album for £11.00 new which I thought was not to bad but as the CD player is new I will have to run it in a bit before it loosens up a bit before I can give my judgment if it will sound the same as the cd version as I will do a comparison of the two but if it sounds the same I have only lost £11 but still got my self a good CD player I will also try running the CD player without the arcam dac and see what I am getting on the sound front with out the dac . but thanks everyone for the info I will let you all no what I think ones I have let things run in a bit

There are umteen versions/releases of Dire Straits (and other popular) albums and some will be very much better than others, I would hope that a premium release such as your SACD has a good 'version', but knowing the music industry as I do, there is no guarantee of that.

I am not a fan so can not offer specific advise, but as a Spotify user I find they usually have multiple versions of well known albums and they can vary quite noticeably. Mostly the earlier and original versions are best, but this is not always so.

The important thing to understand here is that if you are trying to get the best possible sound quality, then you need to look at the different versions. The mastering seems far more important than any other consideration, a well mastered CD sounding better than, say, a less well mastered 24/96 download.

 

[expat_mike]

There are umteen versions/releases of Dire Straits (and other popular) albums and some will be very much better than others, I would hope that a premium release such as your SACD has a good 'version', but knowing the music industry as I do, there is no guarantee of that.

18 months ago, I was thinking about buying a Marantz UD-7007 and a few SACDs, just to explore the medium.

In the end, I bought a couple of hybrid SACDs, which I could play on my normal CD player, but have not yet bought a dedicated SACD player yet.

But I did find it interesting reading forums which contained threads about SACD releases. It was quickly apparent that not all SACDs are created equal, and there is much discussion among music fans, as to which SACDs have been created from the best original master recording.

If you still want to explore SACDs, then I suggest you read a few threads like this one before buying any discs, because it could help you avoid buying an expensive duff SACD.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/mofi-dire-straits-brothers-in-arms-sacd-july-2013.318631/

I shall probably make sure that my next discplayer can read SACDs, but I am open to the idea that much of the claimed audio benefits of some SACDs, derive from them being based on well mastered source material.

 

[Rethep]

i have all of the dire straits albums on cd and the quality has always been very good with this band . in my time i must of brought brothers in arms about 4 time in my life tape , vinyl , cd , sacd lol

As i said somewhere else on this forum, even the 1st release of the 1st Dire Straits album on CD (i had the LP too!), sounds breathtaking. Listen to e.g. 'Wild west end'. But then again, i have a very good valve-amp!

Some guest here, auditioning a 128 kbs mp-3 of 'Private investigation' fell almost from his chair because of the good sound, he told me. So no necessity for Super Audio here, sorry!

 

[iMark]

Ok just got dire straits brothers in arms on sacd cd but noticed when looking at the titles that some say hybrid ,multi channel cd as the marantz sa8005 is only 2 channel as I see fleetwood Mac rumours but it say multi channel will this album play 2 channel ? And is there anything to look out for when buying sacds as some are very expensive like black sabbath first album is nearly £200 to buy and have the company's stopped releasing scads ? Thanks

As explained by others, the SACD format comes in different types of discs.

- SACD, stereo layer only

- Hybrid SACD stereo: stereo layer SACD and stereo layer CD

- Hybrid SACD multichannel: multihannel SACD layer, stereo SACD layer and stereo CD layer

- SACD multichannel: multichannel SACD layer, stereo SACD layer

I got interested in SACDs around 2003 and bought my first universal DVD player in 2003, a Pioneer DV-565. Three years ago this was upgraded to a Sony Bluray player that also plays SACDs. (I had already given up on DVD-Audio discs that the Pioneer can play.)

I still think Hybrid SACD is a good format. It works for stereo audiophiles, multichannel show offs and people that only have a regular CD player. I like the fact that I can buy one disc that gives me hires stereo and multichannel and the CD layer that I can rip without any problems into the iTunes library. There is not other disc with this kind of flexibilty.

For a couple of years I bought quite a few Hybrid SACDs but everything went downhill when Universal dropped their support for the format (except in Japan). Here in NL classical music fans were quite happy with the format but that wasn't enough of a driving force.

The format is still supported by a couple of smaller labels like Linn Classical and BIS. There are many terrific releases on these labels. If you want to keep up to date with releases or just browse in recordings that were ever released on SACD: http://www.sa-cd.net

Some of the SACDs I bought in 2003 and 2004 are now worth quite a bit because they are extremely rare.

 

[tonky]

What a classic - the vinyl sounded superb. Best thing they ever did (inmho). In that era so many groups' first albums where (in my opinion) absolute stand outs .The groups were new - their sound was so fresh and appealing. Very difficult to capture on subsequent albums.

tonky

 

[The Magus]

the best brother in arms by dire straits i have hear and that i am listen right now is from this box here:

http://www.minilps.net/dire-straits/brothers-in-arms-box-du-sp257

IS SHM-CD

i belive is the same as this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EB5BEO?keywords=Dire%20Straits%20%20Brothers%20In%20Arms%20%20SHM-CD&pebp=1447185086738&perid=KTV3R3QR09TCPRWE1H2Y&qid=1447185051&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

 

[Blacksabbath25]

the best brother in arms by dire straits i have hear and that i am listen right now is from this box here:

http://www.minilps.net/dire-straits/brothers-in-arms-box-du-sp257

IS SHM-CD

i belive is the same as this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001EB5BEO?keywords=Dire%20Straits%20%20Brothers%20In%20Arms%20%20SHM-CD&pebp=1447185086738&perid=KTV3R3QR09TCPRWE1H2Y&qid=1447185051&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

thanks for the links I do have all there albums on cd but that dire straits box set is that all of the albums or just a special ed of brothers in arms ?

 

[chebby]

Mostly the earlier and original versions are best, but this is not always so.

Yep.

I am waiting for the music industry to realise this and finally re-issue all the originals as 'classic' (or whatever branding they put on it to dodge the issue of all those generations of overheated 're-masters'.)

In the same way that Coca Cola had to re-launch 'Coca Cola Classic' after the 'New Coke' fiasco almost bankrupted them. (You #### with America's favourite sugar delivery system at your peril!)

 

[The Magus]

thanks for the links I do have all there albums on cd but that dire straits box set is that all of the albums or just a special ed of brothers in arms ?

it have many albums of dire straits in it i wish i could send you a private message but it seems i can not do that in this forum but put this title in google and you will find litle info:

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms Box 10 SHM-CD Japan Mini LP Edition

 

[davedotco]

thanks for the links I do have all there albums on cd but that dire straits box set is that all of the albums or just a special ed of brothers in arms ?

it have many albums of dire straits in it i wish i could send you a private message but it seems i can not do that in this forum but put this title in google and you will find litle info:

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms Box 10 SHM-CD Japan Mini LP Edition

Christ....!

In our shop we used to make anyone who wanted to play anything by Dire Straits put a couple of quid in our collection box.

Not entirely successful as some of our 'regulars' brought in copies (borrowed?) just so they could contribute and join in the fun...*unknw*