The new vinyl resurgence, why now?

[Al ears]

As an old-timer that has always had music served up on a 'black disc' in my life I am intregued to find out why the vinyl phenomenon of today has evolved.

Considering the number of questions we get on this forum from complete novices about adding a turntable to their systems, invariably on a budget, why would somebody want to return to such a 'low-fi', and expensive if bought new, system?

On a restricted budget there is no way a vinyl-based system is going to compete with the cheap CD options that are currently available, so why the interest?

Why would someone with no vinyl in their collection want to suddenly decide it's a must have?

Whilst I love the media myself , and have paid a small fortune getting my system to the state it is now in, I am at odds as to why someone would want to start afresh, often to the point of not realising the amp they currently own will not even take a turntable without extra outlay on an external phono preamp.

Is it purely industry-driven or is it just a yearning for things past? If it was good enough for my parents etc.

Answers on the back of a blank signed cheque please. ;-)

 

[daveh75]

 

[stevebrock]

To appear cool & trendy

 

[Frank Harvey]

You'll get a number of sarcastic/negative etc answers to this question. Personally, I don't think you can pin it down to any one reason.

Yes, there are those who think it is cool. Whether this type of person is getting into it for the first time, or whether they were previously a vinyl user, who knows.

There are those who haven't used vinyl for a long time, and may have heard a friend's system and been impressed by it. There could be a number of reasons for this - maybe their friend's vinyl playing system is better than their own digital system, or maybe they have been used to digital for so long that their friend's system just sounds so different - and they prefer it.

Yes, there are collectors. That has never changed though, as collectors have been around for many decades.

Some are getting back into vinyl and bringing down their collections from the loft. Maybe they don't want to get involved in the streaming generation, or find it hard to get into.

And then there are those that just prefer the sound of a vinyl system to a digital one, regardless of how incomprehensible that is to digital users. There are too many negatives thrown around regarding how bad vinyl sounds. Yes, vinyl can sound "low fi" if it is an entry level system, if the turntable is not a particularly good design, and the records are old, worn, or just not well looked after. With a well designed turntable, a half decent system, and well maintained records, a vinyl based system loses very little to a digital one.

 

[abacus]

Vinyl never went away, as it was always used in clubs by DJs, and all the youngsters like to think their great DJ’s, so having a couple of cheap turntables and a mixer makes them cool with their mates.

There have also been many surveys etc. on why vinyl has retuned, and the main ones always come back to the physical nature of the covers which adds something to the mix. (Most surveys also show that the vast majority of buyers that purchase vinyl, do not possess a turntable or would ever buy one, they just want something physical to go with their download)

Finally, there are the die-hard’s that believe digital is evil and vinyl is king. (Basically the musical equivalent of those that are adamant that the world is flat and we never went to the moon)

Bill

 

[MajorFubar]

It's the young ones who throw £100-£150 at something crap by Ion or Steepletone that I feel sorry for. The same money could have been spent on something that has a far better chance of playing records well without destroying them. We had one such person on here not long ago wanting to know which £300 amp to connect it to. Insane. It's impossible to tell them in a nice way that their budget's arse about face and they're heading for nothing but instant disappointment. It also frustrates me that they'll base their whole opinion on how well records can sound on their experience with such junk.

 

[6and8]

Al, I think the interest in vinyl is part of a bigger thing, a need to go touchy feely in an impersonal, digital world. Look at how most people work these days, at computer screens in open plan offices. They do their banking and shopping and online because it's more convenient. They stream their TV content and play video games with strangers online. They have 500+ Facebook friends they'll never meet. They find their next boyfriend / girlfriend on a website. All things that are sort of invisible, intangible, out there in the ether. And they're 'always on'. Glued to the screen of their phone or phablet on the bus, in the pub, walking aong the street, at the dinner table with their family.

But there's also a growing interest in cooking, gardening, keeping an allotment, knitting, building sheds, baking cakes. All very hands on, 'human' activities. Business may be booming for IKEA but 1950s and 1960s furniture and designs are popular again among younger people. At the Classic Car Club in London people pay a hefty subscription to be able drive old cars, from Ferraris to family saloons from the 60s and 70s. All slower and heavier to drive than the average car today, but more of an experience. Trendy cyclists prefer old-fashioned bikes to flash, modern ones.

Which is why, IMHO, vinyl is so popular again. It's touchy feely. It's an old format but the music buried in the grooves is familiar. Instead of pressing a button and downloading invisible music files from the internet you can hold a chunk of black vinyl in your hand, put it on a turntable, drop a stylus into the grooves. And what's more, it comes in a large cardboard cover with pictures and words. Vinyl is the new knitting. It's groovy, man.

 

[Al ears]

All very interesting posts, some of which I can relate to, keep them coming.

 

[jjbomber]

With a well designed turntable, a half decent system, and well maintained records, a vinyl based system loses very little to a digital one.

I know 4 recording artists personally and have met several more backstage as support acts. Every single one of them prefers vinyl. The usual answer is that you get a certain warmth with vinyl that digital sources can't deliver. Given that they are musically trained and judging their own music, they should know. So vinyl doesn't lose very little to digital musically, only if you mean convenience does it lose out.

Incidently, I use all digital, so I am not biased to vinyl at all. However I have to respect the opinions of professional musicians.

 

[chebby]

Hipsters mostly.

There was a survey (recently I think) that showed half of all vinyl buyers never play their records nor have the means to do so...

(found it) ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-36040746

However, I was guilty of nostalgia myself for a year or so (back in 2008 or thereabouts) with a new Rega and Ortofon 2M Blue.

I sold it on to a fellow member here.

We've got a couple of decent used record shops in town including one that sells Pie & Mash too ...

http://www.pieandvinyl.co.uk/

... It was a hit with our daughters when we took them there for birthday lunches. However it's a whole 'scene' or fashion/fun thing there amongst (mostly) the local Uni students and not really a hi-fi thing.

 

[chebby]

It's the young ones who throw £100-£150 at something crap by Ion or Steepletone that I feel sorry for. The same money could have been spent on something that has a far better chance of playing records well without destroying them. We had one such person on here not long ago wanting to know which £300 amp to connect it to. Insane. It's impossible to tell them in a nice way that their budget's arse about face and they're heading for nothing but instant disappointment. It also frustrates me that they'll base their whole opinion on how well records can sound on their experience with such junk.

Don't worry. Most of the "young ones" listening to the original LPs (back in the 1950s - 1980s) were listening to them on junk systems too.

A B&W Zeppelin Wireless and a smart phone would thrash anything a teenager was listening to back then. (Unless it was an incredibly rich teenager.)

 

[nopiano]

I like 6and8's reply.

I cannot rationalise it myself either. Like you, Al, I had LPs when they were the source, other than taping off the FM tuner. What I didn't do, however, was replace most of my LPs with CDs. It even took me a while to find a fairly good cd replay standard, such that I stopped playing records.

I started to get interested in different genres and repertoire, and acquired those on cd - so when I went back to my LPs it was to relisten to things from my younger days. I see that as a bit like getting another bicycle, or the motorbike you couldn't afford!

I also was given a couple of quite decent LP collections, including some valuable early Decca and RCA recordings, so I now have older LPs than I began with!

Definitely the effort to play an LP I see as akin to dressing up for a night out, whereas a cd is more like a microwaved ready meal.

 

[Al ears]

I like 6and8's reply.

I cannot rationalise it myself either. Like you, Al, I had LPs when they were the source, other than taping off the FM tuner. What I didn't do, however, was replace most of my LPs with CDs. It even took me a while to find a fairly good cd replay standard, such that I stopped playing records.

I started to get interested in different genres and repertoire, and acquired those on cd - so when I went back to my LPs it was to relisten to things from my younger days. I see that as a bit like getting another bicycle, or the motorbike you couldn't afford!

I also was given a couple of quite decent LP collections, including some valuable early Decca and RCA recordings, so I now have older LPs than I began with!

Definitely the effort to play an LP I see as akin to dressing up for a night out, whereas a cd is more like a microwaved ready meal.

Just love that analogy. ;-)

 

[Al ears]

With a well designed turntable, a half decent system, and well maintained records, a vinyl based system loses very little to a digital one.

I know 4 recording artists personally and have met several more backstage as support acts. Every single one of them prefers vinyl. The usual answer is that you get a certain warmth with vinyl that digital sources can't deliver. Given that they are musically trained and judging their own music, they should know. So vinyl doesn't lose very little to digital musically, only if you mean convenience does it lose out.

Incidently, I use all digital, so I am not biased to vinyl at all. However I have to respect the opinions of professional musicians.

This is one of the points that I don't fully understand. The majority of posters on this forum are newbies trying to do vinyl on the cheap. There is no way basic set-ups like they are after can offer the full benefits of vinyl, this takes money particularly on the cartridge front, before it will even vaguely approach the frequency response and others of a cheap CD player.

 

[Chris Munden]

I am also an old timer and started playing vinyl on an old Dansette way back in 1960. I soon found that drastic upgrades were needed to hear my vinyl at their best so down to my local HI FI dealer where a TD 160 + SME 3009 arm and Shure cartridge was purchased a couple of used Thames Dittons and a early Sugden amp. My favourite trick was to record new albums straight to tape (a Dual tape deck) before the album got worn or damaged. I admit I'm a tad biased towards Vinyl becausec that is where my Hi Fi carreer started and it still does today but with much more up to date gear. CD's came along and we all stuffed the turntable and albums in the loft and started using CD. I never felt especially in those early days that CD had the dynamic ambience of a Vinyl through quality gear, but as CD's were developed, they digitally enhanced the sound envelope to compete and probably equal or better vinyl. Having said, I have a vast tape collection and the quality on some of them is superb so thats included in my sound system. The Oxford Street store in London of HMV now has a whole floor dedicated to vinyl and has had for several years, but interestingly, they reported a couple of years ago that vinyl sales out sold CD's for one particular year.

Used vinyl shops are springing up all over and I have a good choice within easy reach, but I would warn every one buying a used vinyl, check it our carefully in direct light for dings and scratches before you buy it, its buyer beware. Some dealers will play it for you before you buy.

Pete

 

[Al ears]

So, if as many suppose, the resurgence is down to people with little sense and a poor bank balance with little interest in hi-fi per se, what's the chance in an upsurge in Blue-Ray audio discs? ;-)

 

[bigfish786]

Vinyl can sound remarkably good.

Its not just young hipsters buying this stuff. It's people like me, middle aged, with spare cash, and a desire to hear music at its best.

get it right, and vinyl can sound fantastic.

Cd can sound a bit itchy and scratchy after listening to the same album on vinyl.

i still listen to cd, but it's happening less and less .

for the music industry to survive, vinyl is a really big shot in the arm. A premium product that basically sells itself.

Sacd, DVDa, minidisc, dcc, and hi res have very little success in convincing us we are listening to a premium product.

I would happily invite any unbelievers to listen to the same album on cd and vinyl on a decent setup.

If they can't hear the difference, then stick to cd. If they can, buy a decent turntable, and spend some money in vinyl. And support the music industry.

 

[Al ears]

Vinyl can sound remarkably good.

Its not just young hipsters buying this stuff. It's people like me, middle aged, with spare cash, and a desire to hear music at its best.

get it right, and vinyl can sound fantastic.

Cd can sound a bit itchy and scratchy after listening to the same album on vinyl.

i still listen to cd, but it's happening less and less .

for the music industry to survive, vinyl is a really big shot in the arm. A premium product that basically sells itself.

Sacd, DVDa, minidisc, dcc, and hi res have very little success in convincing us we are listening to a premium product.

I would happily invite any unbelievers to listen to the same album on cd and vinyl on a decent setup.

If they can't hear the difference, then stick to cd. If they can, buy a decent turntable, and spend some money in vinyl. And support the music industry.

Whilst I couldn't agree with you more about a decent vinyl system it was my thoughts in the initial post that this is not what most of the people behind the vinyl resurgence are doing. They are listening on sub standard ready-made packages that cannot be doing that black vinyl disc any justice at all. So why are they liking it that much? The cost of a new LP is considerable so why attempt to build a vinyl collection on a budget?

 

[Frank Harvey]

With a well designed turntable, a half decent system, and well maintained records, a vinyl based system loses very little to a digital one.

I know 4 recording artists personally and have met several more backstage as support acts. Every single one of them prefers vinyl. The usual answer is that you get a certain warmth with vinyl that digital sources can't deliver. Given that they are musically trained and judging their own music, they should know. So vinyl doesn't lose very little to digital musically, only if you mean convenience does it lose out.

Incidently, I use all digital, so I am not biased to vinyl at all. However I have to respect the opinions of professional musicians.

I suppose it depends on the individual's interpretation/classification of "warmth". I think many of us see this warmth as the warmth added by cheap, low quality turntables. As you have mentioned recording artists - who we would presume know what they're talking about - maybe they're talking more of vinyl's smoothness in the higher frequencies that could give vinyl a certain warmth? I hear similar preferences from various reps of manufacturers - and before anyone says they'll be biased - I'm talking about reps for companies who make products like speakers, so they have no vested interest in the vinyl format or turntables.

 

[jjbomber]

I suppose it depends on the individual's interpretation/classification of "warmth". I think many of us see this warmth as the warmth added by cheap, low quality turntables. As you have mentioned recording artists - who we would presume know what they're talking about - maybe they're talking more of vinyl's smoothness in the higher frequencies that could give vinyl a certain warmth?

Last year Dan Patlansky was in negotiations with a hi-fi chain in the UK to do a 'tour'. He was willing to play his album, Introvertigo, to a selected audience to point out what you can hear on a good hi-fi compared to the run of the mill ones. Also, there was to be a vinyl v CD shoot-out for the attendees to judge for themselves, based on what they had been told to listen out for. Sadly the negotiations fell through, as the sales department said yes and the accountants said no. It would have been a great experiment.

 

[friendly_ghost]

I too think 6and8's response is spot on. It does not have anything to do with hifi, as most young people have never even heard music through a decent system. I doubt most of them know there is much difference. So it's the tactile thing and cover art that's important to them.

I'll be 27 in a week and have always listened to my dads records, only recently did other people my age start doing that. But they only played mp3's through their laptop speakers before, so they're not bothered about the quality really...

(edited for spelling)

 

[Chris Munden]

To go back to the original question, resurgence of vinyl, it was always simmering just under the surface so to speak and in the last few years has surfaced into a growing medium, albeit very small by comparisson to other music mediums. Just to point out that a friend has a huge home cinema system, must have cost shed loads and all he does is down load the music and plays it through the system. This is the future of Hi Fi at home is his answer, Don't agree but that's modern technology for you.

Al ears makes a good point, playing vinyl on some cheap record player does not do the vinyl an iota of justice, It took me a few years to prove that. So resurgence, yes, but I suspect it will remain a niche market, hopefully, new vinyl abums will start to drop in price making the system more available, but currently I feel they are too expensive and younger Hi Fi enthuseasts will weigh up the price of a CD against a vinyl!

Pete

 

[Frank Harvey]

I'll be 27 in a week and have always listened to my dads records, only recently did other people my age start doing that. But they only played mp3's through their laptop speakers before, so they're not bothered about the quality really...

But are there a number of people getitng into vinyl because they've been used to digital compression for so long that they now realising (maybe after earing friend's systems) that there is better sound quality out there?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Last year Dan Patlansky was in negotiations with a hi-fi chain in the UK to do a 'tour'. He was willing to play his album, Introvertigo, to a selected audience to point out what you can hear on a good hi-fi compared to the run of the mill ones. Also, there was to be a vinyl v CD shoot-out for the attendees to judge for themselves, based on what they had been told to listen out for. Sadly the negotiations fell through, as the sales department said yes and the accountants said no. It would have been a great experiment.

That would have been interesting.

You mention that the listeners would have been told what to listen for. I don't want to imply people don't know what to listen for, but I do think that many people just listen to the sound that is immediately in front of them. There's far more going on than this though - ambience, texture etc. Most people watching a film will be looking at the two people having a conversation right in front of them on screen, totally oblivious to any detail. or what is going on in the background or around them.

 

[friendly_ghost]

I guess there might be, but then there are surely cheaper and easier ways to do so...