Probably but they will be tiny in number and limited entirely to the kind of youngsters you see coming in your shop now and again. 50-odd percent of new records are bought by people with no means to play it, nor any intention to ever do so.David@FrankHarvey said:
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Amongst the many other age brackets.MajorFubar said:
Wasn't that survey stating about 48%? (A bit less than 50 odd). How many records were bought during the 80s with no intention of being placed on a record deck? Collectors have been around for many decades, and doesn't change the fact that sales of turntables and records are way up, and still increasing.
David@FrankHarvey said:
I guess it would be very interesting to see in which price bracket the increase is best noticeable
knaithrover
Well-known member
I started buying music seriously in the 70's so have invested heavily in vinyl although went over entirely to cd's in the 90's then digital media and streaming later on. I got back into vinyl purely because I wanted to play my large collection. I have an RP1 which i've ugraded, nowhere near high end but sonically very good indeed to my ears and certainly a match for cd or Tidal. Not better just different. There's also the pleasure of album art and the physical ritual which can't be underestimated. I will be upgrading my TT at some stage yes but I don't think we should be sniffy about the so called cr*p cheap tt's people are buying now as starter kit, did any of us start off with state of the art equipment or even half decent for that matter? Everyone has to start somewhere.
jjbomber
Well-known member
David@FrankHarvey said:
That's basically it. Things like overdubs and hi-hats just get lost in the mix. A good example is Dark Side Of The Moon, where one track features 7 different guitars from Dave Gilmour. How many of the public could pick out each guitar? Not many. But if they were sitting in HiFix or wherever with Dave Gilmour explaining it all, think how great an education that would be. The better the hi-fi, the easier to follow the 7 guitars. So the shops get upgrade sales from existing customers and the Dan fans become new customers. Everybody would have won.
knaithrover said:
That was perhaps part of my question. In the day I started with LPs it was indeed a basic system but then we never had CD Players. Now they are readily and cheaply available why would anybody want to add into their set-up a device that is sonically inferior ? At least these are in the cheaper devices that seem to be selling well these days.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
I can only comment on my experience. I've had a turntable since 1978, and still own a budget TT, although I've pimped the cart since 2006. For me vinyl gives you another dimension in musical playback. I'm not saying it's better or worse - but I think that's the crux: It gives you something different.
I know there are the hipsters who just buy turntables to be... erm... hip. But that says a lot to me: If it was outmoded stinking pile of s**t why would the hipsters pretend it was hip?
I know there are the hipsters who just buy turntables to be... erm... hip. But that says a lot to me: If it was outmoded stinking pile of s**t why would the hipsters pretend it was hip?
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Agreed. You'd think modern digital technology would be classed as "hip", rather than analogue tech that has been with us for almost 70 years, even well over 100 years depending on your outlook. You'd think that having all your music at your finger tips via your phone or tablet would be "hip" - whilst that was cool 5-10 years ago, it's not somehting people are knocking themselves out to own.plastic penguin said:
David@FrankHarvey said:
Other age brackets will remember when vinyl was the dominant source. What fascinates me with the younger end is why they are suddenly interested. There will be lots of subheadings and bulletpoints, but all of them can be summarised by the one reason: vinyl ownership, from the physical size and tactility of the medium and the players, to its sound, is completely different to anything that generation has ever known.
From what I am seeing in my surroundings, I see a lot of 16-25yr olds buying records from fleamarkets, stores and the internet. A lot of them just buy it as decoration. Of course a lot of the albums have great art on them and can be used as a nice framed picture. Others just superglue them to the walls as wallpaper.... And there are those few who actually listen to them. And when thos last few are fed with good music they will learn to appriciate the charme of vinyl. CD's, MP3's etc. are all much simpler and easier to get and listen to. But iff they are realy intersted in music and are willing to take the time records could be for them.
The reason I still play records is simple, I listen to an entire album instead of skipping thru 11 of the 12 songs. I actually listen to each song. And as for the people in the range of 40+ that are getting back into the game, besides their midlifecrisis, they seem to get that the records from the 60-80's were actually good recordings, instead of the 90's CD eara were every slide was turned open to get more oomph in the disk and soundquality was far inferiour in recording and espescially mixing then back in the day.
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The reason I still play records is simple, I listen to an entire album instead of skipping thru 11 of the 12 songs. I actually listen to each song. And as for the people in the range of 40+ that are getting back into the game, besides their midlifecrisis, they seem to get that the records from the 60-80's were actually good recordings, instead of the 90's CD eara were every slide was turned open to get more oomph in the disk and soundquality was far inferiour in recording and espescially mixing then back in the day.
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knaithrover
Well-known member
Al ears said:
Cheque? What's that? :-0 Seriously, Al ears, here it is 2016 and I'm still scratching my head over this. I had a modest LP collection (about 850) and my turntable cost me NZ$550 in 1977/78. I got fed up with equipment that I soon grew out of and decided to go for something that I would NEVER grow out of. Retail price at the time was $850, the same as the LP12. But I couldn't get an LP12 straight from an importer at a reduced price. I also got an arm (SME Series III) from the same importer for NZ$300, retail price $330. It took me absolutely ages to pay these things off, by the way; I couldn't take them until I'd handed over the last dollar. I didn't need a new cartridge. There was nothing wrong with the Shure V15 Type III that I already owned. While I loved my set-up at the time, there is no way I'd go back to LPs. They are heavy, cumbersome, too easy to damage, and you can't stop them getting clicks and pops (which seem to sound much worse on hi-fi than on a cheap outfit). Even without clicks and pops, the sound is definitely inferior to a good CD—narrower dynamic range, etc. See Do CDs Actually Sound Better Than Vinyl After All? - Diffuser.fm. The writer there explains it far better than I could. I still have my Luxman PD-131 and I hate to think what you'd have to pay to get something that sounds as good today. I've sold most of my LPs (for an average of less than 50c each—but what can I expect when I live in such a philistine society?) I would rather have given them away than see them land up on the tip, which is almost certainly what would happen after my death.
Digital/virtual invades more and more of our every day life. We are tactile beings...
Now I've turned to the dark side and gone active vinyl is the only aspect of my love of music I can physically interact with, tinkering etc...
As for the vinyl resurgence I visited the local HMV today and after browsing the vinyl albums thought I'd have a laugh and looked at their selection of 'turntables'... if one thing alone kills of this current resurgence it will be people expecting any kind of quality replay with these pieces of plastic junk. It was quite shocking especially the build quality. Pictures are one thing, go and get tactile with one and have a giggle! ;-)
Now I've turned to the dark side and gone active vinyl is the only aspect of my love of music I can physically interact with, tinkering etc...
As for the vinyl resurgence I visited the local HMV today and after browsing the vinyl albums thought I'd have a laugh and looked at their selection of 'turntables'... if one thing alone kills of this current resurgence it will be people expecting any kind of quality replay with these pieces of plastic junk. It was quite shocking especially the build quality. Pictures are one thing, go and get tactile with one and have a giggle! ;-)
I'm 43 and so grew up on vinyl and rushed for CDs when hey arrived. He reason then was that on all in one hifi units the CD was a huge step up in quality compared to the mass produced turntables that came with a mini system. Good turntables and separates back then were way more than a teenager or someone in their early 20's could afford.
Nowadays though a fair few things have changed. I can afford better systems an I could then and secondly the relative cost of separates is far far lower now.
More significant though is that a lot of people have gone down the route of home cinema systems when they realised the difference an AV amp and speakers make over the TV. From there it was a simple step to look at hifi, then CDs and ultimately vinyl. With the current buzz around vinyl when I looked into it (as a lot of my friends did) we were surprised to hear just how good vinyl now sounds on a half decent deck. I don't agree that you need to spend 1,000s to get a better sound and lots of people my age have now realised that our old vinyls can now sound better than what was designed to replace them now that the technology exists to produce turntables to get the most out of them for an affordable amount. The quality that a £500 turntable in 2016 produces would have been unaffordable in 1985 to most.
For the younger side, a lad who is 25 that works with me has just bought into vinyl. His reasons and that of a lot of his friends were varied but were a mix of having something 'to hold' as opposed to something you stream, they look cool and a realisation just how much better they sound. As he pointed out to me, he would happily spend 300 quid on headphones to listen to streamed music and was staggered when he realised what that same £300 would buy him when spent it on a deck. So now he only buys vinyl as most of it comes with a download too so he has the best of both worlds.
Nowadays though a fair few things have changed. I can afford better systems an I could then and secondly the relative cost of separates is far far lower now.
More significant though is that a lot of people have gone down the route of home cinema systems when they realised the difference an AV amp and speakers make over the TV. From there it was a simple step to look at hifi, then CDs and ultimately vinyl. With the current buzz around vinyl when I looked into it (as a lot of my friends did) we were surprised to hear just how good vinyl now sounds on a half decent deck. I don't agree that you need to spend 1,000s to get a better sound and lots of people my age have now realised that our old vinyls can now sound better than what was designed to replace them now that the technology exists to produce turntables to get the most out of them for an affordable amount. The quality that a £500 turntable in 2016 produces would have been unaffordable in 1985 to most.
For the younger side, a lad who is 25 that works with me has just bought into vinyl. His reasons and that of a lot of his friends were varied but were a mix of having something 'to hold' as opposed to something you stream, they look cool and a realisation just how much better they sound. As he pointed out to me, he would happily spend 300 quid on headphones to listen to streamed music and was staggered when he realised what that same £300 would buy him when spent it on a deck. So now he only buys vinyl as most of it comes with a download too so he has the best of both worlds.
I'm glad it has I just hate music on souless digital files where you don't own anything but a file that sits on you PC/Nas which you can do by ripping from a CD or Vinyl which will still have value, artwork, physical mastercopy, and all the extras that sometimes are packed with it. There's nothing better then great artwork, sound, physical ownership of owning Vinyl and CD (my personal preference) ...I also notice you appreciate your vinyl more, you listen rather then skip-skip or endless browsing as with digital.
stereoman
Well-known member
At least 2 major things: Firstly, sound quality. But what kind of sound quality ? Better than CD ? No , different. Cds , some digital magnetic or chip media have noise free clean sound but they lack the vivid, upbeat sound of vinyl. The stylus on record has hundreds of micro shakes what constitues this livelike sound. In order to get the same feature in CD players one must spend thousands of dollars and it will only nearly come close to vinyl like sound. Secondly, it is the physical media that has a big format without the re-winding issues and offers big sleeve designs what makes a nice impression on the listener. That is my opinion.
P.S. Try to put for example "Bob Marley Live in the Lyceum" on the deck and the same version on CD. Vinyl offers priceless soundstage livelike sound.
P.S. Try to put for example "Bob Marley Live in the Lyceum" on the deck and the same version on CD. Vinyl offers priceless soundstage livelike sound.
bigfish786
Moderator
Unfortunately for me, I got vinyl wrong, very wrong. Back in the 80's when I bought my first Sony stack system. I bought an equal amount of records, cassettes and CDs.
What I got wrong was buying picture discs. Not knowing any better, I was just a naive teenager.
to me, cassettes were my format of choice, they went with me in my Walkman, or in my portable "ghetto blaster" (it was the early 80's)
cds were quite rare, there wasn't the back catalogue that cassette and vinyl had.
being a kid, growing up n the 80's I was also perennially skint. So any music purchase was a big expenditure.
Vinyl never sounded good back then, as I played it back on a crappy plastic turntable, and bought picture discs cos they looked awesome (to me)
in my forties now, I'm still learning about quality hifi, and music replay. Had I known then what I know now, my music collection and my hifi buying history would look completely different.
What I got wrong was buying picture discs. Not knowing any better, I was just a naive teenager.
to me, cassettes were my format of choice, they went with me in my Walkman, or in my portable "ghetto blaster" (it was the early 80's)
cds were quite rare, there wasn't the back catalogue that cassette and vinyl had.
being a kid, growing up n the 80's I was also perennially skint. So any music purchase was a big expenditure.
Vinyl never sounded good back then, as I played it back on a crappy plastic turntable, and bought picture discs cos they looked awesome (to me)
in my forties now, I'm still learning about quality hifi, and music replay. Had I known then what I know now, my music collection and my hifi buying history would look completely different.
chebby
Well-known member
bigfish786
Moderator
chebby said:
for a physical format, it is still doing quite well.
I dont think the cheapo crappy turntables flooding the market are doing it any favours though.
chebby
Well-known member
bigfish786 said:
Vinyl has - mostly - been played on "cheapo crappy turntables" since it's beginnings. Only a tiny, tiny proportion of record buyers have ever owned a decent, well set-up turntable.
bigfish786
Moderator
Yeah, I know. That's how I started and stopped with vinyl in the early 80's.
i have a decent turntable now, fortunately, so I get to enjoy what vinyl can really do.
the vast majority of new listeners will probably suffer the same fate as most of us did and be very underwhelmed by the experience.
i have a decent turntable now, fortunately, so I get to enjoy what vinyl can really do.
the vast majority of new listeners will probably suffer the same fate as most of us did and be very underwhelmed by the experience.
stereoman
Well-known member
chebby said:
True to a degree, but most of the low-grade mono record players of yesteryear made by the likes of Dynatron / HMV / Dansette were still in a different league to the crap currently churned out by such as Steepletone and Crossley. It all started to go wrong in the 70s with cheap plastic junk from such as Fidelity and Matsui, and the current crop are just apeing that level of inadequacy.
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