Is the resurgence of vinyl LP's a fad?

[Al ears]

The dynamics of the thread remind me of the male circumcision debate: a lot of myths and the tribal "we versus them" with a few rabid antis and pros who same to have made a sport of advocating their side.

That's cutting, very cutting...

 

[Leon74]

That's cutting, very cutting...

It's cleaner they say - The CD sound I am talking about of course

​

 

[Jasonovich]

Yes, the 'rubbish in - rubbish out' message was used a lot before CD came about.
Spend the highest proportion of your budget on the turntable and almost any old amp and speakers would do - according to some.

These days, with digital sources so prominent, the reverse is a more popular choice for many - giving much more priority to speakers and amps.

Is there anyone here willing to argue that quality differences between modern digital sources are remotely comparable in scale with those between different makes/ models of speaker?

Back then, the turntable was centre of the universe. I wonder if the momentum now going with vinyl, it will swing back in that direction?

It has shifted with the advent of digital. It is true what you say, I have been for the most part, upgrading my speakers and amp because it made more sense. If I changed the DAC, I would not hear significantly large difference between the two devices. The better DAC will smooth out the rougher edges or resolve better detail.

The degree of these sonic differences isn't as wide as two TTs from the opposite end of the market spectrum, where one is from the bargain basement al' la the false wood veneer Lenco with the many knobs and the other shiny minimalistic rotating biscuit tin, is an engineering legend and, you vomit a mouthful of latte after the Sales Rep told you the price .

 

[froze]

The problem with new vinyl recordings is that they are indeed taken from digital masters, so you're not gaining a damn thing, just buy the CD and forget it.

However, due to the growing trend of vinyl modern recording artists are beginning to record 2 masters at the same time, one for digital and one for analog.

By the way, when I write in cursive, I find that I write neater with a fountain pen than any other type of pen, not sure why that is, the only guess I can make is that with a fountain pen, the tip grips the paper better instead of sliding over it like on ice as the other types of pens feel like. My worst penmanship comes from roller writers. I am not so old school that I was raised on fountain pens, I was raised on ballpoint pens. When I tried a fountain pen when I ran my own business it worked better for me than any other pen I had ever used, so I stayed with the fountain pen for many years. I no longer use them because unless you use that type of pen every day the ink can dry up in a fountain pen, plus fountain pens do require maintenance, and the less you use the pen the more maintenance you have to do. I always used the Parker Jotter because they were inexpensive, wrote fantastically, and I could buy the ink and the pen in a lot of local stores, Walmart, and office supply places carried them back then, but probably not true anymore, probably have to go to Amazon now.

 

[DCarmi]

We doing writing implement critiques now? Did I miss something? My writing with any type of pen looks like it was done by a chicken whilst walking blindfold on cobblestones! Thank goodness for the keyboard because my scribing is now ligelbe.

 

[Al ears]

The problem with new vinyl recordings is that they are indeed taken from digital masters, so you're not gaining a damn thing, just buy the CD and forget it.

However, due to the growing trend of vinyl modern recording artists are beginning to record 2 masters at the same time, one for digital and one for analog.

By the way, when I write in cursive, I find that I write neater with a fountain pen than any other type of pen, not sure why that is, the only guess I can make is that with a fountain pen, the tip grips the paper better instead of sliding over it like on ice as the other types of pens feel like. My worst penmanship comes from roller writers. I am not so old school that I was raised on fountain pens, I was raised on ballpoint pens. When I tried a fountain pen when I ran my own business it worked better for me than any other pen I had ever used, so I stayed with the fountain pen for many years. I no longer use them because unless you use that type of pen every day the ink can dry up in a fountain pen, plus fountain pens do require maintenance, and the less you use the pen the more maintenance you have to do. I always used the Parker Jotter because they were inexpensive, wrote fantastically, and I could buy the ink and the pen in a lot of local stores, Walmart, and office supply places carried them back then, but probably not true anymore, probably have to go to Amazon now.

The presumption that alll vinyl recording is taken from digital masters is erroneous.

 

[manicm]

The presumption that alll vinyl recording is taken from digital masters is erroneous.

That's not actually important, thing is mastering is by necessity different for vinyl. If I'm correct. And they can't compress the recording as high as they can and do for CD.

 

[Rodolfo]

... Many people are still fixated with the old stuff and I still don't understand why.

You need to be patient. You're only on post #225 and probably haven't repeated yourself enough times.

 

[froze]

The presumption that alll vinyl recording is taken from digital masters is erroneous.

I guess you can't read, please try again.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

I guess you can't read, please try again.

Don't get personal please - form rules in a sticky in each sub-forum.

 

[Al ears]

That's not actually important, thing is mastering is by necessity different for vinyl. If I'm correct. And they can't compress the recording as high as they can and do for CD.

I didn't say it was important, however it is, I was trying to correct the bit about new vinyl recordings.

 

[SohoAudiophile]

I'd like to get into records, but as you say putting a digital mix onto vinyl makes no sense.

Is there some scheme or marking for records that come from an analogue original recording that has never been digitised? Some watermark of 'analogue-only path' from reording would be useful.

 

[Jasonovich]

I'd like to get into records, but as you say putting a digital mix onto vinyl makes no sense.

Is there some scheme or marking for records that come from an analogue original recording that has never been digitised? Some watermark of 'analogue-only path' from reording would be useful.

NativeDSD, I download my music from there a lot but they also do vinyl mastered from analogue. I'm not sure how extensive is their analogue catalogue but worth checking it out - see link below below.

https://www.nativedsd.com/catalogue/?filter_original-recording-format=analog-2

 

[DCarmi]

Is there some scheme or marking for records that come from an analogue original recording that has never been digitised?

There is the SPARS code on some modern LPs. You may see codes like:
AAA - Fully analogue
AAD - Analogue recording and editing and Digital mastering
ADD - Analogue recording, Digital editing and Digital mastering
DDD - Everything Digital

The caveat is that it is not compulsory to note the SPARS code. I've not checked my vinyl to see how prevalent. There are companies like Rhino which release AAA vinyl. Basically hunt the interwebs.

 

[spl84]

I think the only reason vinyl ever went dark was due to people demanding the portability that CDs brought. The emergence of CDs in the late 80s early 90s allowed music fans to enjoy their music virtually anywhere, on the go, and at a decent quality. Then the portability craze morphed into mp3 and digital streaming audio, which is, of course, still extremely popular and probably always will be. People finally came back around to wanting something of a more visceral experience with their music. That's where vinyl came back around to us and here we are today where it's a booming industry again. So no definitely not a fad!

 

[Jasonovich]

I think the only reason vinyl ever went dark was due to people demanding the portability that CDs brought. The emergence of CDs in the late 80s early 90s allowed music fans to enjoy their music virtually anywhere, on the go, and at a decent quality. Then the portability craze morphed into mp3 and digital streaming audio, which is, of course, still extremely popular and probably always will be. People finally came back around to wanting something of a more visceral experience with their music. That's where vinyl came back around to us and here we are today where it's a booming industry again. So no definitely not a fad!

It's an interesting take. Not sure people were swayed by the portability of CD. If that was so, then why didn't cassette tapes kill vinyl two decades earlier? 😊But yes nice to see vinyl doing well

 

[davidf]

After spending the weekend in a hotel room with a Luphonic H2 turntable, Hegel H190v amp, and a pair of Amphion Argon 3S speakers, I can understand why some people love vinyl so much. It wasn't a cheap system at just under £10k, but it was cheaper than many at the show, and it sounded fantastic. It's always been good previously, but we'd usually borrow a Rega TT, but using the new TT massively elevated the whole system.

I think some people need to give vinyl a proper listen before being so negative about it - whether they're interested in the format or not. I would've dared anyone to visit the room and not like the sound of the system.

 

[manicm]

After spending the weekend in a hotel room with a Luphonic H2 turntable, Hegel H190v amp, and a pair of Amphion Argon 3S speakers, I can understand why some people love vinyl so much. It wasn't a cheap system at just under £10k, but it was cheaper than many at the show, and it sounded fantastic. It's always been good previously, but we'd usually borrow a Rega TT, but using the new TT massively elevated the whole system.

I think some people need to give vinyl a proper listen before being so negative about it - whether they're interested in the format or not. I would've dared anyone to visit the room and not like the sound of the system.

I'm sure it sounds fantastic and more appealing than CD. But then I think of all the tlc a turntable system and vinyl need, and then I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[A-Line]

There's a return to LP playback. Back in the 60's- the mid 1980's these were referred to as records vs vinyl here in the USA.

I don't really care about why there's a return I'm just glad that there is a return. I love playing my records, always have. I didn't purchase any high end digital playback components until around 2006. I learned that digital needed tubes to smooth things out but also a good digital source component(s) were necessary as well.
I like solid state for analog and tubes for digital. Just my opinions of course...😎

 

[Jasonovich]

I'm sure it sounds fantastic and more appealing than CD. But then I think of all the tlc a turntable system and vinyl need, and then I'm not so sure anymore.

Kudos to people who don't mind all the fluff with TT, turntables not just for Christmas! I think a lot of analogue enthusiasts are still locked into a time capsule, hey love those flares and sideburns, where the digital sound wasn't quite up there with the best of analogue.

Ok, hit the big button on the fast forward tape, oh man, how did I get that belly, oh hell my waist use to be size 29 and now 36 and what happen to my mop hair? Yep, time is a Bee beeb b....

Anyway, apologies for the digression. Unless you've been living in a vacuum or like eleven spoonful's of sugar in your coffee, the sound quality from modern DACs surpasses anything analogue, don't care your TT weighs more than your Mini or the arm is carbon titanium, like everything there's always diminishing returns.

Yes your TT sounds fab but can it extract every sinew of detail? Especially, when I'm listening to music at the very highest resolution, nope I don't think so. The future is digital, the future is England not winning anything in football but hey-ho, despite all my rantings, I think, it's important to enjoy our music, if it pulls your string, that's what matters in the end.

 

[Jasonovich]

This is insane!
Levitating turntable, Yoda would be impressed.

View: https://youtu.be/OFEbLXdZ4ws?si=mKZwglIHaxKscQtb

 

[spl84]

It's an interesting take. Not sure people were swayed by the portability of CD. If that was so, then why didn't cassette tapes kill vinyl two decades earlier? 😊But yes nice to see vinyl doing well

Well probably the same reason cassette tapes were never very popular. They're aggravating to play. Having to fast forward to find a song is plain annoying. CDs and tapes are very different. CDs combined portability with good sound quality and ease of navigation. So not just the portability but a combination of features. Yes, I still enjoy CDs.

 

[A-Line]

Kudos to people who don't mind all the fluff with TT, turntables not just for Christmas! I think a lot of analogue enthusiasts are still locked into a time capsule, hey love those flares and sideburns, where the digital sound wasn't quite up there with the best of analogue.

Kudos to people who don't mind all the fluff with TT, turntables not just for Christmas! I think a lot of analogue enthusiasts are still locked into a time capsule, hey love those flares and sideburns, where the digital sound wasn't quite up there with the best of analogue.

Ok, hit the big button on the fast forward tape, oh man, how did I get that belly, oh hell my waist use to be size 29 and now 36 and what happen to my mop hair? Yep, time is a Bee beeb b....

Anyway, apologies for the digression. Unless you've been living in a vacuum or like eleven spoonful's of sugar in your coffee, the sound quality from modern DACs surpasses anything analogue, don't care your TT weighs more than your Mini or the arm is carbon titanium, like everything there's always diminishing returns.

Yes your TT sounds fab but can it extract every sinew of detail? Especially, when I'm listening to music at the very highest resolution, nope I don't think so. The future is digital, the future is England not winning anything in football but hey-ho, despite all my rantings, I think, it's important to enjoy our music, if it pulls your string, that's what matters in the end.

Ok, hit the big button on the fast forward tape, oh man, how did I get that belly, oh hell my waist use to be size 29 and now 36 and what happen to my mop hair? Yep, time is a Bee beeb b....

Anyway, apologies for the digression. Unless you've been living in a vacuum or like eleven spoonful's of sugar in your coffee, the sound quality from modern DACs surpasses anything analogue, don't care your TT weighs more than your Mini or the arm is carbon titanium, like everything there's always diminishing returns.

Yes your TT sounds fab but can it extract every sinew of detail? Especially, when I'm listening to music at the very highest resolution, nope I don't think so. The future is digital, the future is England not winning anything in football but hey-ho, despite all my rantings, I think, it's important to enjoy our music, if it pulls your string, that's what matters in the end.

 

[A-Line]

I'm mainly a analog playback person. I got into digital only out of necessity because certain recordings were only available on CD/SACD format.

I currently have a Linn Sondek LP12. It's fully updated minus a Urika ll phono stage and a Karousel bearing. My Radikal power supply has the Dynamik upgrade. I also don't have Trampoline as I have a pier and beam flooring which makes that upgrade pointless.

My understanding is that Linn's Urika ll phono stage converts the audio signal to digital. It's for this reason that a use a EAR Yoshino 324 solid state analog phono stage instead. This upcoming week I'm taking my turntable to my Linn dealer for a Karousel bearing upgrade. It's also time for a tune-up for the table. My EAR324 phono stage is sonically better than Linn's Urika or Uphoric internal phono stages. My EAR324 phono stage is roughly twice the price of Linn's internal phono stages

The best digital that I've heard comes from digital servers, not CD/SACD players. My current CD player is a McIntosh MCD500 CD/SACD player and sonically it's comparable to a really good turntable whereas my current LP12 is a excellent turntable.

Current pricing for a Linn Klimax DSM music server is about £36,000.00 and Klimax LP12 is around £30,000.00.

Yes playing records requires one to engage their system moreso than if only dealing with digital: remote control vs having to flip a record over.

I'm 62 years old and have been playing records my whole life so it's not really a inconvenience for me as I enjoy playing my records but I also enjoy my CD/SACD collection as well as listening to radio. I've several analog tuners from days gone by for this purpose but also have a current production Magnum Dynalab MD90t tube tuner.

In my experience digital sounds better with a very good basic tube amp/preamp as it's a unnaturally bright and too forward. Analog sounds better with solid state to me.

Everyone has their own configurations as to what they feel sounds the best. The Linn KLIMAX DSM does sound better than a current upgraded LP12 with the right speakers and tube electronics.

With a record collection over 3000 LP's and more than 1500 CD/SACD's I no longer have any more room for any more recordings. Additionally I like recordings that I can hold in my hand and store in proper storage unit like a cabinet. Digital files I can't hold nor do they require a cabinet for storage.

Just my thoughts and opinions...

 

[Jasonovich]

Everyone has their own configurations as to what they feel sounds the best. The Linn KLIMAX DSM does sound better than a current upgraded LP12 with the right speakers and tube electronics.

Bang on, absolutely.
I love your passion and that's a good thing. In my youth, I enjoyed the delights of analogue and I remember with fondness my Logic DM101 Turntable, my Mono Block Edision 12 Class A tube amp (I had built from kit), I had bridged four ways(!) with my Musical Fidelity Speakers.

I sound quality was holographic, I recall sitting in the same room as Ella Fitzgerald.
"I don't want to imitate anybody, I just want to be me," encapsulates her unique spirit as a jazz icon and I think, all of us here, want to find our own identity in the music we love and kudos to you.

I'm happy with the sound I'm getting from DSD512, I listen mainly from my NAS server via the PC or Digital Transport via SSD storage. I can tell you there's none of those digital artefacts but the highest rendition of sound quality you can retrieve from this format. If you must have your sweetness, tubes are just great