The Devialet thread

Page 36 - Seeking answers? Join the What HiFi community: the world's leading independent guide to buying and owning hi-fi and home entertainment products.

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
6
18,545
Visit site
Devialet Phantom.....

It looks like a new type of Sub. But what is it really?

The Devialet website isn't very helpful. 'Implosive Sound Center', 'Heart Bass Implosion Speakers'....

What does it all mean??

They sure look ugly too.

Have Devialet gone too far?

Discuss.
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
The new Devialet Phantom is a wireless active speaker. It has three tricks up its sleeve:

1. it will automatically configure itself as a stereo speaker if another phantom is in the same room, or indeed as a 5- or 7-way home cinema speaker system, if you can splash out on that many Phantoms.

2. it has a special bass reinforcement technology, the details of which are unclear at the moment: it claims to go very deep and very loud with minimal distortion.

3. all the drivers in each Phantom are driven by Devialet's ADH amplification and its SAM technology, which matches speaker output to input in real time.

If it's as good as Devialet claim, it will be very interesting. It may well make the Naim Mu-so look and sound very old hat. But we don't know much about its SQ yet. Apparently it'll be on sale in January.
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
4
18,545
Visit site
matt49 said:
Here's some more detail: evidently there's some pretty serious engineering under the hood.

Excellent! Thanks for the link, Matt. And I had my mind set on a Bluesound system for the multiroom. Putting that on hold for a while!

As for the high-excursion bass drivers: the Phantom animation on the Devialet homepage reminds me of the LEEDH speakers I once demoed. The LEEDHs have even smaller drivers, with even higher excursion, and produce a very fast (yes, fast, Chris), punchy bass. LEEDHs have their drawbacks though (awkward looks, huge price ticket and very low sensitivity)...

So I wonder wether Devialet based their work on the LEEDH technology, making it better and cheaper.*scratch_one-s_head*
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
Yes, it does look similar to the LEEDH drivers. It could be they bought in the LEEDH technology, though I don't know.

I've been worrying about the source for my Dev for some time and have held off. All the options seemed either too expensive or too fiddly. The DIALOG could be just the job, and at a reasonable price.

But now my main focus is the Montis + Magtech system. I just took delivery of some Townshend Seismic Bars to stand the Montis on, and OMG the effect is remarkable. They isolate the speakers from our awkward sprung wooden floor, and somehow the result is a super clean top end -- and no bothering the neighbours with vibrations through the floor.

I think we need to start a panel speaker thread.

*music2*

Matt
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
4
18,545
Visit site
matt49 said:
But now my main focus is the Montis + Magtech system. I just took delivery of some Townshend Seismic Bars to stand the Montis on, and OMG the effect is remarkable. They isolate the speakers from our awkward sprung wooden floor, and somehow the result is a super clean top end -- and no bothering the neighbours with vibrations through the floor.

I think we need to start a panel speaker thread.

Yes, we could do that! Who knows, there might be anyone else except you and me, who has actually heard some!
 

tino

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2011
135
10
18,595
Visit site
If it's half as good as they say, and if they did other colours other than white ... I could see myself sellling getting these.

2015 just got very interesting. *music2*
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
6
18,545
Visit site
tino said:
If it's half as good as they say, and if they did other colours other than white ... I could see myself sellling getting these.

2015 just got very interesting. *music2*

I'm not so sure. These seem to be aimed at the 'casual' listener who is also interested in quality.

I'd love to see how they stack up against acknowledged hi-end speakers.

For multi-room or general background sound they seem pretty impressive though.
 

tino

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2011
135
10
18,595
Visit site
Infiniteloop said:
tino said:
If it's half as good as they say, and if they did other colours other than white ... I could see myself sellling getting these.

2015 just got very interesting. *music2*

I'm not so sure. These seem to be aimed at the 'casual' listener who is also interested in quality.

I'd love to see how they stack up against acknowledged hi-end speakers.

For multi-room or general background sound they seem pretty impressive though.

The Phantom will cost circa £1400 for the base model and £1700 for the more porwerful version. A stereo pair will be around £2800 then you need to add on the cost of the Dialog router. That's a complete system using a phone, streamer or internet streaming service as source. And they say it's designed to compare against 50K systems, so even if that is taken with a pinch of salt it should be something quite incredible for the price ... and you get something that's seems a bit more engineered than a big wooden box stuffed with roof insulation *smile*

From the picture below it looks like if you attached a nozzle to it, you could use it as a vacuum cleaner as well *biggrin*

15925d1418783157-img_0206.jpg
 

Ajani

New member
Apr 9, 2008
42
0
0
Visit site
Infiniteloop said:
tino said:
If it's half as good as they say, and if they did other colours other than white ... I could see myself sellling getting these.

2015 just got very interesting. *music2*

I'm not so sure. These seem to be aimed at the 'casual' listener who is also interested in quality.

I'd love to see how they stack up against acknowledged hi-end speakers.

For multi-room or general background sound they seem pretty impressive though.

Apologies in advance if this post sounds argumentative, but I have to disagree.

Devaliet seems to have invested way too much time, money and tech into developing the Phantom, for it to be aimed at multi-room, general background or the casual listener.

I think it really is their attempt at embarassing the rest of the HiFi industry. Whether they even came close to achieving that goal is yet to be seen.
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
6
18,545
Visit site
Ajani said:
Infiniteloop said:
tino said:
If it's half as good as they say, and if they did other colours other than white ... I could see myself sellling getting these.

2015 just got very interesting. *music2*

I'm not so sure. These seem to be aimed at the 'casual' listener who is also interested in quality.

I'd love to see how they stack up against acknowledged hi-end speakers.

For multi-room or general background sound they seem pretty impressive though.

Apologies in advance if this post sounds argumentative, but I have to disagree.

Devaliet seems to have invested way too much time, money and tech into developing the Phantom, for it to be aimed at multi-room, general background or the casual listener.

I think it really is their attempt at embarassing the rest of the HiFi industry. Whether they even came close to achieving that goal is yet to be seen.

No need to apologise at all. They've done it brilliantly with Amplifiers (which is why I bought one) and I hope they have pulled off something as monumental with speakers. It's just that something doesn't feel 'right'. Phantoms are sold singly, not in pairs. - So how can this be a 'serious' stereo set up? - And if it's not stereo, how can there be a soundstage?

I know thay can be used in pairs as well, but these look as if they are to be used either on the floor or on a piece of furniture. (maybe even screwed to a wall??) - Why no images of stands for them?

I really, really, hope I'm wrong.*scratch_one-s_head*
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
6
18,545
Visit site
Ajani said:
Infiniteloop said:
tino said:
If it's half as good as they say, and if they did other colours other than white ... I could see myself sellling getting these.

2015 just got very interesting. *music2*

I'm not so sure. These seem to be aimed at the 'casual' listener who is also interested in quality.

I'd love to see how they stack up against acknowledged hi-end speakers.

For multi-room or general background sound they seem pretty impressive though.

Apologies in advance if this post sounds argumentative, but I have to disagree.

Devaliet seems to have invested way too much time, money and tech into developing the Phantom, for it to be aimed at multi-room, general background or the casual listener.

I think it really is their attempt at embarassing the rest of the HiFi industry. Whether they even came close to achieving that goal is yet to be seen.

Just found this:

http://news.yahoo.com/devialet-presents-powerful-high-fidelity-wireless-speaker-152020795.html;_ylt=A0LEV2F_zJlUYdYAjeJXNyoA

I fear I may be right.
 

tino

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2011
135
10
18,595
Visit site
Infiniteloop said:
I know thay can be used in pairs as well, but these look as if they are to be used either on the floor or on a piece of furniture. (maybe even screwed to a wall??) - Why no images of stands for them?

I really, really, hope I'm wrong.*scratch_one-s_head*

There are dedicated stands called 'Branch' (approx £200) but there are no pictures - the stands incorporate heatsinking and power supplies for the Phantom.
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
6
18,545
Visit site
I've had my Dev 200 for a few weeks now and have had chance to make a few observations.

On the whole my experience with this machine has been everything I had hoped for. Its sound quality is superb. Very detailed, organic and natural. I'm used to the sound of Valve Amps and the Devialet, to my ears, sounds almost as warm, yet more focused and relaxed at the same time. The big difference is in the bass response. - Quite a revelation! Where my Unison Research goes low, it does so in a vague, 'cloud of bass' kind of way and merely hints at texture and form. The Devialet treats bass (especially with SAM on) the same as other parts of the spectrum. Deep, defined, textured and powerful. It does this with all kinds of music too, from 80's electronica, Reggae and Trance to Orchestral and Jazz. (It is astonishing with 60's Jazz recordings!) SAM improves bass massively. My Focal Electra 1008Be's, whilst no slouch in the bass department, now sound like a large pair of floorstanders. This has the effect of making the mid band and top all the more easy to understand, with vocals and woodwind especially beautiful. It all makes for a very satisfying listening experience regardless of genre. (In fact, I have found that the Devialet does something to previously rough sounding recordings that makes them much more enjoyable).

So revealing is this Amp that it makes it easy to hear the differences between source material. For instance, listening to a 16 bit, 44.1Khz FLAC file streamed from Qobuz through my Mac Mini via USB compared to the same track ripped to iTunes in AIFF and played through Audirvana Plus, the iTunes/Audirvana combination wins hands down. Qobuz is very good, but the iTunes/Audirvana combination just sounds much more 'real', clean and vivid.

Streaming from the Mac mini via WiFi is great too, but I marginally prefer the USB connection. It might be interesting to try a different USB cable for the hell of it. - I have yet to try Ethernet.

The unit has performed flawlessly after I got a replacement remote. It never gets above luke warm when operating but the shiny surface is a challenge to keep looking flawless, although it is easy to clean.

It is brilliant for party use. - Effortless, clean, volume!

I still find it remarkable that a thin, shiny box looking more like luxury bathroom scales can do all this!

"Je suis Charlie".
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
Good to hear the Devialet is still providing pleasure.

I've just ordered a Dialog to go with mine. Initially it'll connect via USB but I expect eventually the Devialets' wireless will be upgraded to match the Dialog's specification.
 

tino

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2011
135
10
18,595
Visit site
Any more news on the Phantom? I didn't see anything in the WHF news section or the CES show report ... did I miss something or is the type of Samsung processor in the next Apple phone more newsworthy?
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
The problem is that the production of the Phantom has taken longer than expected, so the first Phantoms will now not ship until (late?) March. Actually it may be that the delay has been caused by the debugging of the Spark user interface -- I say that because thr Phantom itself has been demoed successfully (e.g. at CES), but no-one seems to have clapped eyes on Spark at the demos. And it would be no great surprise if the software proved to be the cause of the delay.

I'm intrigued by the Phantom, but actually more interested in the Dialog streamer (which I've ordered). It looks on the face of it like a perfect complement to the (now renamed) Expert range of Devialet amps, and it sells for EUR299 -- not too painful.

The Dialog will initially have to talk to the Devialet 'Expert' amps via USB, but I suspect there'll be a firmware upgrade to the amps soon which will allow the Dialog to connect to them via AIR or will replace AIR altogether. I think the latter is more likely, since Devialet seem to be falling out of love with AIR. It's fiddly, and the dreaded 'white noise' problem with AIR over Ethernet still hasn't been resolved.

Matt
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
Now that my Sf Cremona Auditor Ms have gone (to a very good home), I’m looking to replace them. The new speakers will be standmounts or smallish floorstanders, and they’ll have to be SAM ready. They’ll be driven by the D200 in my second system in my study, which is 5 x 4m.

Today I paid a visit to Cornflake in London’s Fitzrovia. Back in the day Cornflake was a hi-fi dealer in a small shop in Covent Garden. Now they've expanded, and their business is hi-fi, AV and (above all) home installations. That’s where the money is in London. Their showroom is a wonder of modern tech, but hi-fi is still the beating heart of what they do: the place is packed with McIntosh, Bryston, PMC, Vivid, Martin Logan etc.

What drew me to Cornflake was an ex-demo pair of Vivid V1.5s. They also had a beautiful ex-demo pair of PMC Fact 8s in tiger ebony. I took my D200 along and listened to both speakers, with the requisite SAM config files, of course.

The Vivids and PMCs are very different speakers, and TBH I was more interested in the Vivids than the PMCs, but I do believe that it makes sense to have a comparison, a reference point. How would the Vivids compare with the PMCs?

I’d heard both speakers before, back in August 2013. I was hugely impressed by the Vivids at a demo at Audiolounge. I heard the PMCs at Audio Venue two days later, alongside the Proac D30Rs and B&W 804 Diamonds. I wasn’t persuaded by the PMCs back then; I preferred the Proacs.

Enough intro already! Let’s get down to business.

The Vivids are really remarkable speakers. They sound exceptionally clean. The top end is very spacious and airy. Female voices, violins etc are wonderfully clean and true. My reference point is my Martin Logan Montis. The Vivids can’t manage the kind of presence and holographic sound of the MLs, but they do get surprisingly close. Along with the clean and pure top end, they image superbly.

Their other trick is speed. Again, they’re never going to be as fast as ESLs, but they come a very close second. The speed is there from the top end right down to the bass. They bounce and jive.

I was very happy with their presentation of all genres of music: solo piano, baroque strings, big symphonic stuff, soul and (for good measure) my reference Yello disk (The Eye).

Moving on to the PMCs was disappointing. The one area where the PMCs were superior was scale. They do a better rendition of large-scale symphonic music. Better in terms of the size of the soundstage at least. And they do go a little deeper, though not much.

But where the Vivids were beautifully clean and accurate, the PMCs seemed to me ragged and thrashy. The top end wasn’t persuasive at all. I felt that some high frequencies were being shoved down my throat in a fairly unpleasant way. They were brighter than the Vivids, but brighter in a distorted way. It was clear to me (and this is of course just me) that the PMCs flattered to deceive.

I found the comparison quite shockingly one-sided. One speaker presented a clear and articulated window into the music; the other threw some rather messy and fussy stuff at me. The Vivids get fairly close to the presentation of ESLs. Maybe it’s that weird globular cabinet design that cancels out resonances. (You can kind of see why Vivids are so expensive: a lot of work has gone into producing a structure that produces a neutral and natural sound.) The PMCs on the other hand are boxes, despite their slim and elegant form, and compared to the Vivids they sounded messy to me.

Needless to say all of the above is my subjective response. Also needless to say it’s my money. And I know where it would go.
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
4
18,545
Visit site
matt49 said:
Needless to say all of the above is my subjective response. Also needless to say it’s my wife's money. And I know where it would go.

There, fixed it for you!
hiding.gif


No, serious. I heard the Vivids with my then D110, in the pre-SAM era, and really enjoyed the combo. I can imagine how much better the extra power of a D200 + a SAM treatment will make them sing. IMO it's a synergy thing: the pluses of both amp and speakers add up nicely (somewhat like with my LS50s, but more so). A resonance-poor cabinet is a quality that can't be replaced by a DSP-trick, nor can SAM mimick what the proprietary Vivid drivers offer, with their specific suspension. While some XO-smearing or limited bass extension can be corrected.

As for the Fact8, I heard it a couple of years ago, compared to the ML Ethos. Though the ESLs were not properly driven (the amp, an Accuphase, made them produce those 'characteristic' harsh trebles), the MLs really wiped the floor with the PMCs. Switching between speakers was not like a veil being lifted, rather like a door: open/closed/open/closed...
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
DocG said:
matt49 said:
Needless to say all of the above is my subjective response. Also needless to say it’s my wife's money. And I know where it would go.

There, fixed it for you!

Very good (and true)!

DocG said:
No, serious. I heard the Vivids with my then D110, in the pre-SAM era, and really enjoyed the combo. I can imagine how much better the extra power of a D200 + a SAM treatment will make them sing. IMO it's a synergy thing: the pluses of both amp and speakers add up nicely (somewhat like with my LS50s, but more so). A resonance-poor cabinet is a quality that can't be replaced by a DSP-trick, nor can SAM mimick what the proprietary Vivid drivers offer, with their specific suspension. While some XO-smearing or limited bass extension can be corrected.

As for the Fact8, I heard it a couple of years ago, compared to the ML Ethos. Though the ESLs were not properly driven (the amp, an Accuphase, made them produce those 'characteristic' harsh trebles), the MLs really wiped the floor with the PMCs. Switching between speakers was not like a veil being lifted, rather like a door: open/closed/open/closed...

You're absolutely right: the intrinsic character of the speakers -- the sonics of the driver design and cabinet construction -- are what they are, and SAM won't change that. One thing SAM will do is enable a medium-sized speaker to feel at home in a larger room. The demo room was about 5 x 8m, and you'd have thought the Vivids would feel lost in such a big space, but they didn't.

This is making me wonder whether the Vivids might work in our living room: they'd go well with the modern decor, and they're a lot less obtrusive than the MLs. The other advantage of switching the systems would be that I can go all out for acoustic treatment in my study, which I can't do downstairs. Full panellage on walls and ceiling. Food for thought ...
 

DocG

Well-known member
May 1, 2012
54
4
18,545
Visit site
matt49 said:
The other advantage of switching the systems would be that I can go all out for acoustic treatment in my study, which I can't do downstairs. Full panellage on walls and ceiling. Food for thought ...

Ha, I thought your 'hifi walhalla search' was nearing its end-game. But that's not gonna happen, is it? Good for us!*angel*

Proper room treatment could indeed raise the Magtech-ML system's performance to the next level (You're not acrophobic, are you?). After that... well... I guess you'll need to arrange live performances in your house to better it!*wacko*
 

Infiniteloop

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2010
51
6
18,545
Visit site
matt49 said:
Now that my Sf Cremona Auditor Ms have gone (to a very good home), I’m looking to replace them. The new speakers will be standmounts or smallish floorstanders, and they’ll have to be SAM ready. They’ll be driven by the D200 in my second system in my study, which is 5 x 4m.

Today I paid a visit to Cornflake in London’s Fitzrovia. Back in the day Cornflake was a hi-fi dealer in a small shop in Covent Garden. Now they've expanded, and their business is hi-fi, AV and (above all) home installations. That’s where the money is in London. Their showroom is a wonder of modern tech, but hi-fi is still the beating heart of what they do: the place is packed with McIntosh, Bryston, PMC, Vivid, Martin Logan etc.

What drew me to Cornflake was an ex-demo pair of Vivid V1.5s. They also had a beautiful ex-demo pair of PMC Fact 8s in tiger ebony. I took my D200 along and listened to both speakers, with the requisite SAM config files, of course.

The Vivids and PMCs are very different speakers, and TBH I was more interested in the Vivids than the PMCs, but I do believe that it makes sense to have a comparison, a reference point. How would the Vivids compare with the PMCs?

I’d heard both speakers before, back in August 2013. I was hugely impressed by the Vivids at a demo at Audiolounge. I heard the PMCs at Audio Venue two days later, alongside the Proac D30Rs and B&W 804 Diamonds. I wasn’t persuaded by the PMCs back then; I preferred the Proacs.

Enough intro already! Let’s get down to business.

The Vivids are really remarkable speakers. They sound exceptionally clean. The top end is very spacious and airy. Female voices, violins etc are wonderfully clean and true. My reference point is my Martin Logan Montis. The Vivids can’t manage the kind of presence and holographic sound of the MLs, but they do get surprisingly close. Along with the clean and pure top end, they image superbly.

Their other trick is speed. Again, they’re never going to be as fast as ESLs, but they come a very close second. The speed is there from the top end right down to the bass. They bounce and jive.

I was very happy with their presentation of all genres of music: solo piano, baroque strings, big symphonic stuff, soul and (for good measure) my reference Yello disk (The Eye).

Moving on to the PMCs was disappointing. The one area where the PMCs were superior was scale. They do a better rendition of large-scale symphonic music. Better in terms of the size of the soundstage at least. And they do go a little deeper, though not much.

But where the Vivids were beautifully clean and accurate, the PMCs seemed to me ragged and thrashy. The top end wasn’t persuasive at all. I felt that some high frequencies were being shoved down my throat in a fairly unpleasant way. They were brighter than the Vivids, but brighter in a distorted way. It was clear to me (and this is of course just me) that the PMCs flattered to deceive.

I found the comparison quite shockingly one-sided. One speaker presented a clear and articulated window into the music; the other threw some rather messy and fussy stuff at me. The Vivids get fairly close to the presentation of ESLs. Maybe it’s that weird globular cabinet design that cancels out resonances. (You can kind of see why Vivids are so expensive: a lot of work has gone into producing a structure that produces a neutral and natural sound.) The PMCs on the other hand are boxes, despite their slim and elegant form, and compared to the Vivids they sounded messy to me.

Needless to say all of the above is my subjective response. Also needless to say it’s my money. And I know where it would go.

An interesting journey you're on Matt, but it sounds like the Vivids have a hold on you. I'm still stuck in Philadelphia (weather issues at my connecting Airport) and looking forward to getting home to put the SF Cremonas through their paces in both my systems. Have only heard them with the S8 and the Dev 200 in my upstairs listening room and am looking forward to seeing how the combinations sound in the lounge.

Mrs Loop loves the aesthetics of the SF's and they do pair very nicely visually with the S8.
 

matt49

Well-known member
Apr 7, 2013
51
1
18,540
Visit site
Infiniteloop said:
An interesting journey you're on Matt, but it sounds like the Vivids have a hold on you. I'm still stuck in Philadelphia (weather issues at my connecting Airport) and looking forward to getting home to put the SF Cremonas through their paces in both my systems. Have only heard them with the S8 and the Dev 200 in my upstairs listening room and am looking forward to seeing how the combinations sound in the lounge.

Mrs Loop loves the aesthetics of the SF's and they do pair very nicely visually with the S8.

That sounds a bit tedious, Andrew. Is there much to do in Philly?

Glad to hear the Sfs have gone down well with Mrs Loop. Funnily enough, Mrs 49 never really liked them.
 

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts