Subwoofer

[JDL]

I have a question. I wonder if anyone would mind offering some advice please. I'm playing CDs through a CD player into a Marantz PM8005 and KEF LS50 Meta speakers. Is it possible and is it worth it, if it is possible to add one or two subwoofers to this system to extend the low end response. I believe the speakers are not capable of reproducing low end frequencies below a certain level. I can't remember what the low end limit is but is it worthwhile if possible, and I don't know if it is feasible to add to the system to go lower? Any advice would be most appreciated.

 

[RobSys]

Looking at the Marantz PM8005, there are a pair Pre-Out connections that can feed a signal to a sub-woofer.

I would recommend only a single woofer as low range bass is generally omni-directional. Unless you're listening in a very large room with a very wide speaker placement, two sub-woofers would be somewhat of an over-kill... Else, you'd be far better off getting a higher quality unit.

If you opt for a single woofer, make sure it has tow inputs available and then connect both pre-out channels to the woofer.

Rob

 

[twinkletoes]

I will add to the above a little.

Because your amp lacks the ability to adjust for timing this will have to be done manually by simply moving the subwoofer around, centimetres can make a huge difference. And because of this MASSIVE shortcoming in nearly all stereo systems, the subwoofer will have to be on the same plain somewhat as the kefs so AVR suggestions of corner placement wont work in 2-channel systems.

Basically, you want all the sound to reach you simultaneously.

I'd also find a subwoofer that has high-level connectivity such as rel or bk. This way the sub is receiving exactly what the speakers are at precisely the same time it is just one less adjustment you have to make, the connector is much longer to! rather than RCA's which can get expensive even for el cheapo ones.

Set the crossover to around 50-60hz for the metas


On the matter of 2. What Rob has said is true but kind of not. What you get with 2 is evenness NOT gain/fill its hard to get your head around but quite simply you don't get more. Having one "can" load the room unevenly even though the bass is omnidirectional. That's the theory! but this is something bass heads fight over all the time, SVS have a good explanation of it on their site I suggest reading that. This is not something id recommend if you've never set up a subwoofer, its hard enough to integrate one.

Ill add this, in some rooms its a doddle to set up in others (most) a subwoofer is without doubt one of the hardest pieces to setup and get right and in some rooms plain impossible especially without AVR-style delay systems. If your speakers aren't following basic hifi rules for set up , equilateral triangle and all that jazz OR you only have just one place in the room for the subwoofer to go ie you've measured a gap and said " it will go there nicely" i just wouldn't even try.

It's all very simple physics, bass waves are longer, so speakers sitting 3 meters away from you, may need you to delay the sub somehow by another 3 meters for example (It's completely room dependent). As you're doing this manually you'd have to physically move it those 3 meters!

I'd very much borrow one and see if you can even get close to integrating it.

Once done right it won't be just the low frequencies that benefit. There will be a ground-up improvement everything will become richer.

 

[RobSys]

TwinkleToes... I stand corrected and informed...

Indeed, technically you are very muchly correct! However, some of us have wives (or partners at least) and placement of speakers, especially woofers, are often prima facie cases for divorce or at least serious cases of violence!

I can only just imagine my wife's reaction if I were to set up my woofer at the same height as my speakers but 2m behind them.... Shudder...!

Oh for a dedicated music room...!

Rob

 

[JDL]

Looking at the Marantz PM8005, there are a pair Pre-Out connections that can feed a signal to a sub-woofer.

I would recommend only a single woofer as low range bass is generally omni-directional. Unless you're listening in a very large room with a very wide speaker placement, two sub-woofers would be somewhat of an over-kill... Else, you'd be far better off getting a higher quality unit.

If you opt for a single woofer, make sure it has tow inputs available and then connect both pre-out channels to the woofer.

Rob

Ah...thanks for that, something I didn't understand. Whether I actually need a subwoofer or not...well that's something I'd have to think about. It's not often I listen to music with very low bass I think.

 

[RobSys]

I might add that my son (who's an A/V consulting engineer) came around with a calibrated microphone and checked out my system. He adjusted the woofer's output curve to flatten the combined speaker/woofer response reasonably well...
Perhaps an option for placement/adjustment?

 

[elliswils]

All of the above is true and great advise.

BUT

Don't be put off buying one, or better two. I used to run only one B&W ASW610 and when upgrading my speakers a while back and listening to different options tried two ASW610s (you plug the red pre-out to the right-hand red RCA subwoofer terminal and the white to the left-hand white RCA) to give a 'stereo' set up and found that two were even better.

I am lucky enough to have a dedicated listening room (my study/home office) where I work more often than not and although it is not the most acoustically good room in the world the sub's definitely improve the whole sound beyond measure and not just at the low end.

My problem is that when my Wife is in the house and despite my study being some distance and three sets of doors away from where she sits, she constantly complains about having to listen to the low end rumble and thump so be warned...

Sub's are surprisingly difficult to set up but utterly worth it.

 

[twinkletoes]

TwinkleToes... I stand corrected and informed...

Indeed, technically you are very muchly correct! However, some of us have wives (or partners at least) and placement of speakers, especially woofers, are often prima facie cases for divorce or at least serious cases of violence!

I can only just imagine my wife's reaction if I were to set up my woofer at the same height as my speakers but 2m behind them.... Shudder...!

Oh for a dedicated music room...!

Rob

haha sorry, i wasn't correcting you just adding. Sorry if it came across like that.

The sub doesn't need to be the same height (though some are these days) the ground plain is fine just has to be at the front within the imaginary "triangle".

The time alignment can be a killer though. making the subwoofer domestically unsuitable when used within stereo system. All they need to include is a distant delay feature.

I love a subwoofer but have limited space for the delay.

Most are better off actually getting bigger speakers

 

[JDL]

Thanks for the advice dudes. So setting a sub up properly isn't as easy as simply plugging it in and switching it on.
Perhaps I should have gone for floor standing speakers rather than stand mounters, I don't know. I'm rather new to all the nuances of what kind of speakers are best, a greenhorn one might say ha ha. One thing I have noticed though, is that the best speakers cost rather a lot of money.
Far more than I have access to anyway.

 

[abacus]

Thanks for the advice dudes. So setting a sub up properly isn't as easy as simply plugging it in and switching it on.
Perhaps I should have gone for floor standing speakers rather than stand mounters, I don't know. I'm rather new to all the nuances of what kind of speakers are best, a greenhorn one might say ha ha. One thing I have noticed though, is that the best speakers cost rather a lot of money.
Far more than I have access to anyway.

You don't say the size of the room, but if it is too small floor standers would have made things worse with uneven bass.

Bill

 

[Al ears]

You don't say the size of the room, but if it is too small floor standers would have made things worse with uneven bass.

Bill

bit of a generalisation that.
Uneven bass?
The right floorstanders in the right room can sound better than the wrong standmounts..
My quite large floorstanders work very well in my smallish bedroom.
You appear to be suggesting that floorstanders have a lower bass response than standmounts but this isn't always the case.
Assuming they do, how is adding a subwoofer to standmounts going to improve things?

 

[JDL]

You don't say the size of the room, but if it is too small floor standers would have made things worse with uneven bass.

Bill

The room where my audio set up is going is 13 feet by 15 feet with a ceiling that's 8 and a half feet high. I don't know if this is considered large enough for floor standers or not. I suppose if floor standers would be more appropriate for this room I would have to sell the speakers I just bought and maybe try to save some money up. The thing is though, I'm hankering after an amp upgrade.
I was using a pair of B&W 707 S2 speakers until 2 days ago. I was really impressed with the sound of these to some extent, but I noticed that with some music they seemed a bit harsh. I listen to quite a lot of Piano Concertos and I noticed that the frequency response particularly with Pianos was uneven. Certain notes were ringing out more than others to the extent that I was finding it slightly unpleasant and irritating.
Two days ago, a pair of KEF LS50 Meta speakers arrived. These, I feel sound far better to my ears. I could tell straight away that KEF have made a very good job of damping and baffling the cabinets in these speakers. They're a bit larger than the 707s, and a fair bit heavier. I believe they have a more even frequency response and to my ears they sound lovely. I hope they're not too small for the living room where my gear is going, when the builders have finished.
I'm afraid I don't really know anything about room size and what speakers are appropriate.

 

[Messiah]

The room where my audio set up is going is 13 feet by 15 feet with a ceiling that's 8 and a half feet high.

What I would suggest is to wait for the HiFi to be in its main environment before making any changes.

Then you can assess, make changes etc. You could get it perfect now, move it and then hate it again.

 

[Jasonovich]

I have a question. I wonder if anyone would mind offering some advice please. I'm playing CDs through a CD player into a Marantz PM8005 and KEF LS50 Meta speakers. Is it possible and is it worth it, if it is possible to add one or two subwoofers to this system to extend the low end response. I believe the speakers are not capable of reproducing low end frequencies below a certain level. I can't remember what the low end limit is but is it worthwhile if possible, and I don't know if it is feasible to add to the system to go lower? Any advice would be most appreciated.

The KEF LS50 Meta speakers are a work of art, they do need a good subwoofer to take care of the lower frequencies.
If you're thinking about replacing them with floor standers, I would say keep them and get yourself a decent subwoofer maybe in Kef range of subwoofers.
Your Marantz PM8005 has RCA LFE, it has separate mono left and right outputs, it gives you some flexibility.


My AV setup I'm using DALI E-9F subwoofer, these work well with my Monitor Audios. Some subwoofers come with a single LFE , so you would need Y RCA cable, which is pretty straight forward. I think the Marantz allows you to adjust the Low pass via the controls.

You can use a professional subwoofer if that is something that appeals to you. Some provide RCA connectivity but most likely you would require an adapter cable RCA to TRS or RCA to XLR.
Some suggestions

REL Acoustics S/812 - Active Subwoofer Class A​

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://avstore.in/products/rel-s-812&psig=AOvVaw1DMVWQZF5u546hhXdr61wV&ust=1692464300281000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBAQjhxqFwoTCNC7n53Z5oADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAL
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://avstore.in/products/rel-s-812&psig=AOvVaw1DMVWQZF5u546hhXdr61wV&ust=1692464300281000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBAQjhxqFwoTCNC7n53Z5oADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAL
Focal SUB ONE (Focal is possibly a French version of British KEF) - also see their non-professional range of speakers - floor standing or subwoofer
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://avstore.in/products/rel-s-812&psig=AOvVaw1DMVWQZF5u546hhXdr61wV&ust=1692464300281000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBAQjhxqFwoTCNC7n53Z5oADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAL

Or possibly
ADAM SUB10 or SUB12

 

[abacus]

bit of a generalisation that.
Uneven bass?
The right floorstanders in the right room can sound better than the wrong standmounts..
My quite large floorstanders work very well in my smallish bedroom.
You appear to be suggesting that floorstanders have a lower bass response than standmounts but this isn't always the case.
Assuming they do, how is adding a subwoofer to standmounts going to improve things?

The subwoofer can be put where it gets best response in the room, floorstanders don't have this option, so its difficult trying to get an ideal position that gets the best out of bass, middle & treble.

Bill

 

[abacus]

The room where my audio set up is going is 13 feet by 15 feet with a ceiling that's 8 and a half feet high. I don't know if this is considered large enough for floor standers or not. I suppose if floor standers would be more appropriate for this room I would have to sell the speakers I just bought and maybe try to save some money up. The thing is though, I'm hankering after an amp upgrade.
I was using a pair of B&W 707 S2 speakers until 2 days ago. I was really impressed with the sound of these to some extent, but I noticed that with some music they seemed a bit harsh. I listen to quite a lot of Piano Concertos and I noticed that the frequency response particularly with Pianos was uneven. Certain notes were ringing out more than others to the extent that I was finding it slightly unpleasant and irritating.
Two days ago, a pair of KEF LS50 Meta speakers arrived. These, I feel sound far better to my ears. I could tell straight away that KEF have made a very good job of damping and baffling the cabinets in these speakers. They're a bit larger than the 707s, and a fair bit heavier. I believe they have a more even frequency response and to my ears they sound lovely. I hope they're not too small for the living room where my gear is going, when the builders have finished.
I'm afraid I don't really know anything about room size and what speakers are appropriate.

You should be fine with floorstanders in that size room providing you keep them away from walls.
If you are happy with the speakers you already have, then a subwoofer is probably still the best way to go.

Bill

 

[JDL]

Thanks very much to everyone for the advice. It really has helped me a lot to understand some of this stuff that I didn't understand before. I appreciate it. Brilliant! I will indeed wait before I do anything else. The builders actually came back and they're nearly finished!! I thought they were never coming 😂. Therefore I will indeed be able to move my hi fi into the living room soon, and that is a relief!
I must say I agree about those KEF LS 50 Meta speakers. A work of art. That's exactly what me and my twin bro' were saying last night. I have no niggling doubts about the sound of these, they really do sound very, very nice I think.
Moreover, I will indeed wait before doing anything else until I've shifted my gear. I bought myself a nice hi fi stand off eBay. A four tier glass shelved thingy to smarten things up a bit.
There's more to all this than I realized. Thanks again dudes for the advice👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

 

[Al ears]

You should be fine with floorstanders in that size room providing you keep them away from walls.
If you are happy with the speakers you already have, then a subwoofer is probably still the best way to go.

Bill

Unfortunately, like cable threads, this can potentially go around in circles.
If your speakers are so unsatisfactory that you feel the need to add a subwoofer then you have bought the wrong speakers in the first instance.
And now it starts to get expensive.

 

[hifi]

Unfortunately, like cable threads, this can potentially go around in circles.
If your speakers are so unsatisfactory that you feel the need to add a subwoofer then you have bought the wrong speakers in the first instance.
And now it starts to get expensive.

can you hear his her speakers ? I am going too add a sub too my set up. JEEZE So Negative .

 

[hifi]

its not about the thread or how good you look its about helping people .

 

[hifi]

or if i can type or spell.

 

[hifi]

like I said music is meant too be fun not this. Far too much DRAMA.,

 

[hifi]

JDL i let you know how i get on with my Sub.

 

[hifi]

Unfortunately, like cable threads, this can potentially go around in circles.
If your speakers are so unsatisfactory that you feel the need to add a subwoofer then you have bought the wrong speakers in the first instance.
And now it starts to get expensive.

its A SUB THREAD 🙈

 

[JDL]

Unfortunately, like cable threads, this can potentially go around in circles.
If your speakers are so unsatisfactory that you feel the need to add a subwoofer then you have bought the wrong speakers in the first instance.
And now it starts to get expensive.

Thanks. Well to be honest I'm not finding the speakers unsatisfactory. Because I mainly listen to classical I have no real need for the depth of frequency added by a sub. And then the rock type music I tend to listen to from the late 60s to late 70s, only tends to go down to the low E of a Bass guitar (unless it's tuned down to D or a five string with a low B) So (grammar police coming😂) I don't really think a sub woofer would be a necessity for me? I think. As you say things will get expensive if I start obsessing on sub sonic frequencies and not being a hip hop, electronic music or rap fan, it may well be something I don't really need.👍🏻