Subwoofer

[JDl]

Huh?

 

[JDl]

With your fondness for classical I thought it would only be a matter of time before you explored the sub route. Standmounts are great but they do lack the scale needed for classical, my opinion of course.

You're right, it's really added to the sound stage. I'm very pleased. The most difficult thing for me about setting it up was the mass of the object. Not the easiest thing I ever lifted.

 

[JDl]

the characteristics of this acoustics are similar to marketing/hoax 🙂

If you say so.

 

[JDl]

the characteristics of this acoustics are similar to marketing/hoax 🙂

By the way, your grammar needs some work.

 

[JDl]

If you decided to take a spherical subwoofer, then why didn’t you buy acoustics of the same shape? The design should be uniform 🙂

Please explain.

 

[Al ears]

the characteristics of this acoustics are similar to marketing/hoax 🙂

Explain please.

 

[Al ears]

Please explain.

Agree he is coming out with some tosh....

 

[JDl]

The use of a subwoofer is of paramount importance. For eg. pic. below shows KEF Reference 3's which are perfectly capable of good quality low frequencies. However this system features a pair of JL Audio Fathom f112 v2 subwoofers and a JL Audio CR-1 active subwoofer crossover with a crossover point to the main speakers set at 90Hz, so the Reference 3's speakers are relieved of the need to produce deep bass. This crossover point relieves the main speakers of the bottom two octaves (20Hz - 40Hz and 40Hz - 80Hz) and more which lowers distortion in the main speakers. The Fathom f112 v2’s do a much better job in this region. As a result the system is more transparent and dynamic from bottom to top, at low volumes as well as at higher volumes and the space in the original recording is much better defined than the KEF Reference 3's on their own.

View attachment 5071

With all things being equal a subwoofer is the most important component. Ideally frequencies up to 90Hz should be unburdened from the mains and this LF burden passed on to a subwoofer to deal with.

I believe to achieve 'realism' requires power and even if the mains go down to 20Hz a subwoofer should still be incorporated because in my experience a subwoofer can inject power into and energise a system like no other component can.

The goal is to effectively align, calibrate, dial in a subwoofer so that the subwoofer integrates seamlessly with the mains and disappears into the soundstage with a deep, sharp, tight fisted, fast and powerful punchy sub bass.

That's a very impressive system you have there. In addition, thanks for your very good explanation about the set up and advantages of adding a subwoofer or two to a stereo system. Most interesting.

 

[JDl]

That's a very impressive system you have there. In addition, thanks for your very good explanation about the set up and advantages of adding a subwoofer or two to a stereo system. Most interesting.

The active subwoofer I have, has been wired in parallel with the speakers at the amplifier speaker output terminals.
Does this mean that the subwoofer will automatically relieve the speakers of playing the lower frequencies or would I need to buy an extra crossover.
I'm afraid I don't really know much about these things.

 

[Messiah]

Does this mean that the subwoofer will automatically relieve the speakers of playing the lower frequencies?

No. The way it is connected the speakers have no idea there is a sub connected and just carry on their merry way.

I'm not even sure 'relieving' them of something they were designed to do would make a massive difference but I guess it's hard to be sure unless you try it.

Apart from my current QA 3030i, I have always used a sub with stand-mounts and never felt the need to try and limit what the main speakers are doing.

 

[JDl]

No. The way it is connected the speakers have no idea there is a sub connected and just carry on their merry way.

I'm not even sure 'relieving' them of something they were designed to do would make a massive difference but I guess it's hard to be sure unless you try it.

Apart from my current QA 3030i, I have always used a sub with stand-mounts and never felt the need to try and limit what the main speakers are doing.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
All that matters really, as I'm no technical expert, is that it's improved the sound of my Hi-Fi., which was what I was hoping for 👍🏻

 

[JDl]

You're right, it's really added to the sound stage. I'm very pleased. The most difficult thing for me about setting it up was the mass of the object. Not the easiest thing I ever lifted.

You're right, it's really added to the sound stage. I'm very pleased. The most difficult thing for me about setting it up was the mass of the object. Not the easiest thing I ever lifted.

My brother found me this rather interesting ancient cast iron gear wheel. He very kindly painted it for me and donated it as a stand for the subwoofer. It weighs about 25lbs.

You're right, it's really added to the sound stage. I'm very pleased. The most difficult thing for me about setting it up was the mass of the object. Not the easiest thing I ever lifted.

 

[nopiano]

Please explain.

I think if you substitute ’loudspeaker’ for the word ‘acoustics’ it makes more sense. Maybe this is a translation issue? (And at least they don’t call me ‘mate’!)

 

[JDl]

Good point. By the way the gearwheel plinth is going, that was just a bit of fun.
I think it can be put to better use. 🙂

 

[Shrek]

Due to work life balance not had much time for my hifi. I discovered today the my Amp has a low pass filter setting 🤓.

🤔 but what should i have it set too DOH !

Specs attached hope the text size is not too small .
Thank you.

 

[Jasonovich]

Due to work life balance not had much time for my hifi. I discovered today the my Amp has a low pass filter setting 🤓.

🤔 but what should i have it set too DOH !

Specs attached hope the text size is not too small .
Thank you.

Your Wharfedale's have a frequency response 45Hz - 20kHz, so they can go quite low. These are fair size speakers and shouldn't be bass shy. Your Q Acoustics 3060 frequency Response (+3 dB, -6 dB): 35 – 250 Hz and it already has crossover setting. I would leave the amp to it's default setting and use the SW setting instead.

It's always going to be trial and error, before you find the setting that suits your setup and room acoustics.

 

[Shrek]

Your Wharfedale's have a frequency response 45Hz - 20kHz, so they can go quite low. These are fair size speakers and shouldn't be bass shy. Your Q Acoustics 3060 frequency Response (+3 dB, -6 dB): 35 – 250 Hz and it already has crossover setting. I would leave the amp to it's default setting and use the SW setting instead.

It's always going to be trial and error, before you find the setting that suits your setup and room acoustics.

How do i know the subwoofer setting ? thanks Jason that solves some of it . Thanks.

 

[Jasonovich]

How do i know the subwoofer setting ? thanks Jason that solves some of it . Thanks.

These are big speakers, I would set the cross over on the SW to 60. See how this sounds to yours ears.
If it comes across lumpy in the bass decrease incrementally to 55 or not enough bass knock it up to 65. Do it incrementally either way until it is fully aligned with your speakers.

 

[Shrek]

These are big speakers, I would set the cross over on the SW to 60. See how this sounds to yours ears.
If it comes across lumpy in the bass decrease incrementally to 55 or not enough bass knock it up to 65. Do it incrementally either way until it is fully aligned with your speakers.

cool thanks

 

[James105]

Good point. By the way the gearwheel plinth is going, that was just a bit of fun.
I think it can be put to better use. 🙂

It can, just what is your other hobby? 🙂

 

[AJM1981]

Looking at the Marantz PM8005, there are a pair Pre-Out connections that can feed a signal to a sub-woofer.

I would recommend only a single woofer as low range bass is generally omni-directional. Unless you're listening in a very large room with a very wide speaker placement, two sub-woofers would be somewhat of an over-kill... Else, you'd be far better off getting a higher quality unit.

If you opt for a single woofer, make sure it has tow inputs available and then connect both pre-out channels to the woofer.

Rob

Subwoofer manufacturers really recommend 2. 😉

Indeed… 1 is fine for about any reasonable living room.

 

[JDl]

Rescuing old gear wheels from around the old farm we live at. Out of interest, there's a pair of steel hoops like tyres from a pair of old cart wheels. They've been standing out in the weather for over 100 years. The steel from which they're made has surface rust, but that's all. The quality of this steel is absolutely incredible. One would expect steel about about 1/2" thick by 21/2" wide to have started to rust through. But no. There's only surface rust. I'm amazed by these objects. My hobby's reading old classics, collecting old things then selling them later on when I've had enough of seeing them.

 

[nopiano]

Subwoofer manufacturers really recommend 2. 😉

Indeed… 1 is fine for about any reasonable living room.

And speaker cable manufacturers recommend that you buy wire, er, I mean bi-wire!! 😉

 

[JDl]

And speaker cable manufacturers recommend that you buy wire, er, I mean bi-wire!! 😉

LGBTQ++++++++ wire.

 

[jaypeeq]

I will add to the above a little.

Because your amp lacks the ability to adjust for timing this will have to be done manually by simply moving the subwoofer around, centimetres can make a huge difference. And because of this MASSIVE shortcoming in nearly all stereo systems, the subwoofer will have to be on the same plain somewhat as the kefs so AVR suggestions of corner placement wont work in 2-channel systems.

Basically, you want all the sound to reach you simultaneously.

I'd also find a subwoofer that has high-level connectivity such as rel or bk. This way the sub is receiving exactly what the speakers are at precisely the same time it is just one less adjustment you have to make, the connector is much longer to! rather than RCA's which can get expensive even for el cheapo ones.

Set the crossover to around 50-60hz for the metas


On the matter of 2. What Rob has said is true but kind of not. What you get with 2 is evenness NOT gain/fill its hard to get your head around but quite simply you don't get more. Having one "can" load the room unevenly even though the bass is omnidirectional. That's the theory! but this is something bass heads fight over all the time, SVS have a good explanation of it on their site I suggest reading that. This is not something id recommend if you've never set up a subwoofer, its hard enough to integrate one.

Ill add this, in some rooms its a doddle to set up in others (most) a subwoofer is without doubt one of the hardest pieces to setup and get right and in some rooms plain impossible especially without AVR-style delay systems. If your speakers aren't following basic hifi rules for set up , equilateral triangle and all that jazz OR you only have just one place in the room for the subwoofer to go ie you've measured a gap and said " it will go there nicely" i just wouldn't even try.

It's all very simple physics, bass waves are longer, so speakers sitting 3 meters away from you, may need you to delay the sub somehow by another 3 meters for example (It's completely room dependent). As you're doing this manually you'd have to physically move it those 3 meters!

I'd very much borrow one and see if you can even get close to integrating it.

Once done right it won't be just the low frequencies that benefit. There will be a ground-up improvement everything will become richer.

I have a similar situation as OP and sounds like you might know the answer. I have the KEF LS50 Meta connected to a Cambridge Audio AXR100 and want to add a sub. It sounds incredible to me but the KEFs seem to struggle a little when listening to bass heavy music and I figured if I add a sub and cut some lower frequencies from the KEFs that it would take some pressure off of them. But when connecting a sub to the amp, the amp does not cut the low frequencies from the main speaker output. Any advice? At first I thought about how in car audio you can put a high pass filter on the speaker line.