Roon v1.5

[insider9]

I've read on another forum that Qnap TS-251 can handle Roon. That's circa £300. Once again, make sure it matches your requirements.

 

[cheeseboy]

was reading about the nucleus and apart from the custom case, which is ok, everything else is off the shelf! Their white paper basically says they used off the shelf nuc parts, a standard power supply etc. So, if you wanted the same as a nucleus, but didn't want to put it together yourself and wanted to save yourself a small fortune, I've just come accross the new range of MSI Cubi Silent pc's - https://www.msi.com/Desktop/Cubi-3-Silent-S-7m

 

[spiny norman]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

it works perfect on my desktop and you can always plug a new drive in a desktop if you run out of storage as I’ve got 3 Tb drive to play with that came with my desktop and a solid state drive so I’ve put the Roon software on the solid state drive and the music on the 3 Tb drive

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this .

 

[Samd]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

it works perfect on my desktop and you can always plug a new drive in a desktop if you run out of storage as I’ve got 3 Tb drive to play with that came with my desktop and a solid state drive so I’ve put the Roon software on the solid state drive and the music on the 3 Tb drive

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this .

But you could use your desktop as the core and the NAS as storage for music, no?

 

[spiny norman]

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this .

That's true on any NAS, provided you're running it in a RAID configuration with some drive redundancy - eg with two drives mirrored (or RAID 1), or in a config with an extra drive used to create a RAID 5 set-up,

However, this does mean the capacity available is only that one of one drive (in mirrored) or the total capacity of the drives minus one drive capacity in RAID 5. eg two 2TB drives mirrored/RAID 1 would still only have 2TB total capacity, while three 2TBs in RAID 5 will only have 4TB capacity, not 6TB.

More on this here: www.pcworld.com/article/2849289/supercharge-your-pcs-storage-with-a-raid-setup-everything-you-need-to-know.html

 

[insider9]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

it works perfect on my desktop and you can always plug a new drive in a desktop if you run out of storage as I’ve got 3 Tb drive to play with that came with my desktop and a solid state drive so I’ve put the Roon software on the solid state drive and the music on the 3 Tb drive 

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this  .

But you could use your desktop as the core and the NAS as storage for music, no?

You could, if you wanted to.

 

[Samd]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

it works perfect on my desktop and you can always plug a new drive in a desktop if you run out of storage as I’ve got 3 Tb drive to play with that came with my desktop and a solid state drive so I’ve put the Roon software on the solid state drive and the music on the 3 Tb drive

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this .

But you could use your desktop as the core and the NAS as storage for music, no?

You could, if you wanted to.

I'm sure you didn't mean it, but that sounded a touch dismissive - the problems of the printed word! With an i7 win 10 machine and samsung 850 Pro SSD would it not be IDEAL to have that as core and any NAS as storage please? I have a Synology which is perfectly adequate for my needs but not up to spec to run core from.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

That’s how I am running Roon on my desktop the Roon software is on the solid state hard drive because that doesn’t take up much room and can be looked at quickly by my PC and the music is stored on a 3 TB drive on the desktop and my Pc has 16gb of DDR4 ram and i7 processor

if I want to add more hard drives I can do in the future and use the PC for everyday use that’s cost effective but saying all that the Nas is the better way to go as long as it’s got a good spec and the fact that you can backup onto other drives in case a drive goes wrong but the Synlogy Nas drives let you no if a drive is going bad before it’s to late and you have lost all of your data

 

[insider9]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

it works perfect on my desktop and you can always plug a new drive in a desktop if you run out of storage as I’ve got 3 Tb drive to play with that came with my desktop and a solid state drive so I’ve put the Roon software on the solid state drive and the music on the 3 Tb drive 

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this  .

But you could use your desktop as the core and the NAS as storage for music, no?

You could, if you wanted to.

I'm sure you didn't mean it, but that sounded a touch dismissive - the problems of the printed word!  With an i7 win 10 machine and samsung 850 Pro SSD would it not be IDEAL to have that as core and any NAS as storage please?  I have a Synology which is perfectly adequate for my needs but not up to spec to run core from.

Sorry Samd. Not my intention at all. That would be well out of character.

I've actually written quite a long reply about NAS, RAID, etc. and it sounded like I was preaching so deleted most of it.

Your machine would be ideal to run Roon. Strong CPU and a fast SSD are perfect for it. The storage can be on a NAS. Just make sure as much as you can is wired for best performance. Otherwise you may be limited when it comes to WiFi stability and speeds.

Once again apologies if it sounded anything but helpful.

 

[spiny norman]

With an i7 win 10 machine and samsung 850 Pro SSD would it not be IDEAL to have that as core and any NAS as storage please?

I'm sure Roon would tell you the IDEAL would be a Roon Nucleus running the core: £1500 to you, sir, plus the cost of the SSD, or £2500 if you want the 'big library' Nucleus+. Kerchingggg! ;-)

 

[insider9]

With an i7 win 10 machine and samsung 850 Pro SSD would it not be IDEAL to have that as core and any NAS as storage please? 

I'm sure Roon would tell you the IDEAL would be a Roon Nucleus running the core: £1500 to you, sir, plus the cost of the SSD, or £2500 if you want the 'big library' Nucleus+. Kerchingggg! ;-)

I honestly don't think they would. They introduced Roon ROCK so if you're after a one box solution all you need is a NUC. Also support several NAS.

They're trying to be as flexible as possible with the gear you're using.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Well so far I’ve ripped 50 CDs today so far I’ve been busy all on Roon without any issues so far I just had a couple of CDs that wouldn’t rip for some reason but basically 50 flac files so far .

I know I’ve mentioned this before but Roon has made some of my double albums into one album front which I wanted but for some reason the 3 disc led zeppelin albums it’s left 3 album covers for the same album .

I am not sure how to sort this out I have looked at the settings but can’t see anything do you think Roon will sort this out as my library is managed by Roon

 

[newlash09]

Extremely happy that you have it all mostly sorted out now.

And your success with ripping cd's and roon, seems to have brought out lots of attention

Good idea on insider9's part to start this awesome thread.

 

[Andrewjvt]

It depends on your needs. NAS will generally have a lower processing power. But it depends on many factors, here are things to consider library size, source material (PCM or DSD), use of DSP, number of zones, upsampling.

Sure you can run Roon on Synlogy or Qnap many people do successfully. But if you want to play a few zones simultaneously with different material on each zone, with up sampling to DSD256 and room correction with a library of 10,000 albums you're probably going to need an i9 with 16GB of RAM.

To answer your question, how big is your library? Will you do upsampling, DSP? How many zones will you be running at the same time?

One zone
Maybe 2 in the future (maybe only one at a time)
Don't believe in upsampling.
How much resources does DSP really take?

My library is small compared to most.

 

[insider9]

It depends on your needs. NAS will generally have a lower processing power. But it depends on many factors, here are things to consider library size, source material (PCM or DSD), use of DSP, number of zones, upsampling.

Sure you can run Roon on Synlogy or Qnap many people do successfully. But if you want to play a few zones simultaneously with different material on each zone, with up sampling to DSD256 and room correction with a library of 10,000 albums you're probably going to need an i9 with 16GB of RAM.

To answer your question, how big is your library? Will you do upsampling, DSP? How many zones will you be running at the same time?

One zone Maybe 2 in the future (maybe only one at a time) Don't believe in upsampling. How much resources does DSP really take?

My library is small compared to most.

Neither do I. DSP on it's own does not need much in terms of resources. But should you do it on a DSD file it has to be converted to PCM for DSP to be applied then it's converted back to DSD. The last conversion from PCM to DSD takes the most processing power. And is no different than upsampling PCM to DSD. If you do it on DSD64 that's usually fine but do it on DSD256 and you really need a powerfull PC.

My low powered streamer can do room correction on DSD64 and output as PCM 352.8. It would struggle to convert it back to DSD64 though.

For one zone at a time and no fancy upsampling i3 of any generation, 4GB RAM and an SSD should be more than enough. But please don't spend any money based on this advice and test before you commit.

 

[insider9]

Well so far I’ve ripped 50 CDs today so far I’ve been busy all on Roon without any issues so far I just had a couple of CDs that wouldn’t rip for some reason but basically 50 flac files so far .

I know I’ve mentioned this before but Roon has made some of my double albums into one album front which I wanted but for some reason the 3 disc led zeppelin albums it’s left 3 album covers for the same album .

I am not sure how to sort this out I have looked at the settings but can’t see anything do you think Roon will sort this out as my library is managed by Roon

I've had this mainly with Led Zeppelin too. It's to do with a huge number of releases (Deluxe, Remasters, Super Deluxe, etc.)

When looking at an album in Roon on PC, press the button with three dots (should be between a heart and Focus on Similar). Then chose Edit. In a window that will be on screen Album Options, click on the Blue button "Identify Album". This should show up many different versions.

Just for "Led Zeppelin I", I'm getting:

12 JAN 1963 Led Zeppelin

4 NOV 2008 Definitive Collection Mini LP

11 NOV 2013 The Complete Led Zeppelin Collection

1 JAN 1994 Led Zeppelin

1 JAN 1971 This is Led Zeppelin

And again 12 JAN 1963 Led Zeppelin (this version is WEA International Vinyl Release; where the first one was Atlantic, Rhino CD release)

Then pick the one it is and make sure tracks match up with no errors. Hope these instructions are clear enough. Apologies not best in explaining things like this.

 

[insider9]

Extremely happy that you have it all mostly sorted out now.

And your success with ripping cd's and roon, seems to have brought out lots of attention

Good idea on insider9's part to start this awesome thread.

Thanks Newlash. Glad you're finding it helpful

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Well so far I’ve ripped 50 CDs today so far I’ve been busy all on Roon without any issues so far I just had a couple of CDs that wouldn’t rip for some reason but basically 50 flac files so far .

I know I’ve mentioned this before but Roon has made some of my double albums into one album front which I wanted but for some reason the 3 disc led zeppelin albums it’s left 3 album covers for the same album .

I am not sure how to sort this out I have looked at the settings but can’t see anything do you think Roon will sort this out as my library is managed by Roon

I've had this mainly with Led Zeppelin too. It's to do with a huge number of releases (Deluxe, Remasters, Super Deluxe, etc.)

When looking at an album in Roon on PC, press the button with three dots (should be between a heart and Focus on Similar). Then chose Edit. In a window that will be on screen Album Options, click on the Blue button "Identify Album". This should show up many different versions.

Just for "Led Zeppelin I", I'm getting:

12 JAN 1963 Led Zeppelin

4 NOV 2008 Definitive Collection Mini LP

11 NOV 2013 The Complete Led Zeppelin Collection

1 JAN 1994 Led Zeppelin

1 JAN 1971 This is Led Zeppelin

And again 12 JAN 1963 Led Zeppelin (this version is WEA International Vinyl Release; where the first one was Atlantic, Rhino CD release)

Then pick the one it is and make sure tracks match up with no errors. Hope these instructions are clear enough. Apologies not best in explaining things like this.

yes I’ve all ready found the album editing tool

but it’s not giving me a lot of choice as it only lists 2 versions and mine are the deluxe versions like Coda album 2 CDs , led zeppelin 2 deluxe 2 CDs , led zeppelin 3 deluxe 2 CDs , house of the holy deluxe 2 CDs ,Presnce deluxe 2 CDs , led zeppelin 1 deluxe 2 CDs and one more basically it’s all the led zeppelin deluxe albums that have 2 or 3 CDs in one album .

but on the other hand I’ve ripped the complete works of the Police 4 CDs and Roon has do it properly and you just view the album ones you click on it and then it show a choice of 4 CDs and the same for ozzy Osborne the Prince of darkness boxset 8 CDs all done correctly .

 

[Craig M.]

Airplay will be resampled to 48kHz.

What is doing the resampling in this case? Roon or the Yamaha? Are you thinking of the audio output from an appletv?

Roon handles resampling and sends all Airplay at 48kHz.

At least this is my experience with it.

Edit However this is device dependent and it can be 44.1. In case of my Hegel Rost its 48.

Are you sure? At first I wondered if your Rost’s dac runs at a multiple of 48 but the Roon knowledge base states the same as wiki - Airplay is 16/44.1 https://kb.roonlabs.com/AirPlay_Setup

Not trying to nitpick, just interested. Although it might explain why you’ve been less than impressed with Airplay if you have a lot of src going on.

 

[insider9]

Airplay will be resampled to 48kHz.

What is doing the resampling in this case? Roon or the Yamaha? Are you thinking of the audio output from an appletv?

Roon handles resampling and sends all Airplay at 48kHz.

At least this is my experience with it.

Edit However this is device dependent and it can be 44.1. In case of my Hegel Rost its 48.

Are you sure? At first I wondered if your Rost’s dac runs at a multiple of 48 but the Roon knowledge base states the same as wiki - Airplay is 16/44.1 https://kb.roonlabs.com/AirPlay_Setup

Not trying to nitpick, just interested. Although it might explain why you’ve been less than impressed with Airplay if you have a lot of src going on.

Not 100% sure but I can check. You are right I was not impressed with Airplay but that pre dates Roon. I've not been impressed with iPad and Yamaha WXC-50 via Airplay too, had number of issues.

Last time I connected Rost via Airplay to my Roon server I accidentally set Roon to send full singal to the amp. Since it's Airplay connected device it set it to 99 on the amp. Since then I disconnected the amp from network to avoid situations like that. But now I'm interested and want to check.

Don't want to be spreading incorrect info. And in fairness should I get Airplay to work well I'd be happy to setup kitchen system with a Roon endpoint.

 

[Samd]

I was purposely exaggerating. Imagine you're going something memory intensive at the same time

Sounds like a good reason for running Roon on a dedicated computer to me, or if you're going to run it on NAS, having a NAS dedicated to music playback ;-)

it works perfect on my desktop and you can always plug a new drive in a desktop if you run out of storage as I’ve got 3 Tb drive to play with that came with my desktop and a solid state drive so I’ve put the Roon software on the solid state drive and the music on the 3 Tb drive

But one good thing I watched on YouTube about Synlogy Nas drives is it lets you no if a hard drive is going bad and let’s you change out the bad drive before you lose any of your library which I do not think a desktop will do this .

But you could use your desktop as the core and the NAS as storage for music, no?

You could, if you wanted to.

I'm sure you didn't mean it, but that sounded a touch dismissive - the problems of the printed word! With an i7 win 10 machine and samsung 850 Pro SSD would it not be IDEAL to have that as core and any NAS as storage please? I have a Synology which is perfectly adequate for my needs but not up to spec to run core from.

Sorry Samd. Not my intention at all. That would be well out of character.

I've actually written quite a long reply about NAS, RAID, etc. and it sounded like I was preaching so deleted most of it.

Your machine would be ideal to run Roon. Strong CPU and a fast SSD are perfect for it. The storage can be on a NAS. Just make sure as much as you can is wired for best performance. Otherwise you may be limited when it comes to WiFi stability and speeds.

Once again apologies if it sounded anything but helpful.

Many thanks - no apology expected or needed.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Since I have hooked up my Yamaha wxc50 to my amplifier directly I thought it sounded a lot better but not sure why but in regards of airplay I’ve find that really well recorded albums sound amazing the ones I’ve ripped to flac basically cd quality but sounds really good but albums that are not so well recorded like heavy metal they sound good but not as good as the better recordings . .

Ive just read some stuff on the Roon website and you can only use the Yamaha wxc50 with airplay using Roon as it’s not classed as a proper end point even though the Yamaha will do Some high res formats but not with Roon it’s a great shame .

So you would have to buy a Roon ready product to take advantage of high- res files which I am not sure what’s out there that’s ready without costing a bomb .

 

[insider9]

Oppo 203 which you already have is Roon Ready. Also a with a PC in the same room you could go down a USB DAC route.

 

[newlash09]

At all budgets. But really depends on the dac you end up with and it's inputs.

I for one, was looking at end points with aes ebu output and not usb outputs to get off the USB cleaner + re clocker route. And below are my options :

Ambre by metrum acoustics - 995 pounds

Audio alchemy dmp-1 + ps5 power supply - 1495+600 = 2095 usd

Bricasti model 5 = 2400 usd

Dcs network bridge = 4500 usd

But if you were to go directly from your laptop to dac :

Berkley alpha usb = 1895 usd

Mutec mc3+ = 1030 usd

The mutec is a better buy