Oppo BDP-831?

[Anonymous]

aliEnRIK:
Will Harris:Davo2008:Thanks, but would you agree with the comments about DVDs and sound? i.e Oppo's sound lacks a bit but has superlative upscaling abilities? DVDs are very important to me, but so is sound and the Denon pumps out a wall of sound fantastically! I wouldn't like to think that by purchasing the Oppo, I'd lose out on sound, even fractionally.... What do you think?

Davo, if you get the chance, try one out. Compare it to the 2500, the 3800 and the A1UD. If you plan to connect via HDMI, then how exactly do you expect they would manage to sound "different". They're pulling digital data off a disc and transmitting it digitally to an amp to process. Do it "correctly" and the answer cannot vary. This is the theory and in practise this has held true for me.

I therefore suggest that you're asking the wrong question. You'd be better off asking whether you thing your amp and speakers will do the best job for you with the signal they're fed. That's the upgrade path now, not the player.

I see where your coming from Will, and im certainly not starting an argument on it

But in my own personal experience ive had 2 pioneer dvd players and my ps3 connected digitally to the same amp. The original Pioneer dvd player wasnt HALF as good as the new Pioneer (LX50). And the PS3 wasnt as good as the LX50 until I fitted my braided mains cable to it

So in that respect id say that 'jitter' certainly makes a difference

Maybe there is a point whereby it cant get any better (In fact im sure there is), but certainly ive personally heard differences using diferent digital 'sources'

It's worth me pointing out that during the recent shoot out we held, all the players were connected to the amp with 2m Mark Grant HDMI cables that he kindly loaned us for the test and all we plugged into a 12 plug commercial block using their own orginal power cables. We were in a dedicated facility and I can't comment on what measures may have been in place to smooth the power supply but we certainly didn't do anything further to the power supplies ourselves.

I think your point is largely around power supplies and your own experience. I have no problem with this. I think that it is largely a factor of where you live and the supply quality reaching your own home. Some will need more work than others, hence why some people claim improvements and others don't. It may well be location specific.

In our test, all players were connected using the cables the manufacturer supplied, to the same power supply. In that regard I'd say the power supply ceased to be a factor in the test as they all had the same supply.

 

[hunnyy]

Will, are you saying that if bitstreaming blu-ray discs via HDMI, (which I am, to a Yamaha RX-V3800 amp), my trusty Panasonic BD35 blu-ray player will exhibit identical picture and sound quality to the Oppo, but I should (only) notice a difference with upscaling DVDs?

 

[Anonymous]

Got it in one.

Oppo does other things much better than your Panny, such as load times, reaction times, choice of audio outs, SACD, DVD-A, DVD upscaling, all round greatness and ease of turning multi-region, but for the transmission of Blu-Ray 1080p24 material, bitstreamed, then yes, there is no difference between the Oppo and the Panny BD35.

 

[Alec]

Oo-er missus, aren't i smug then?

But should i be? Andrew, you see, appears to disagree. I'm assuming the "mid market" BDP he refernces is one priceier than the BD35...And the oppo left it for dead, aparently...

 

[professorhat]

I have to say, I'm extremely dubious about most things Will is saying now, but then I haven't done the testing myself so who am I to judge? All I know is, my PS3 outputs digitally via HDMI as does my Sony BDP-S550 - the sound on my dedicated Sony player is so much better it beggers belief. So if streaming digitally makes no difference, why can I not only hear that difference quite clearly, but also see the slight improvement in video performance?

Hence my doubt.

 

[pete321]

hunnyy: are you saying that if bitstreaming blu-ray discs via HDMI, (which I am, to a Yamaha RX-V3800 amp), my trusty Panasonic BD35 blu-ray player will exhibit identical picture and sound quality to the Oppo, but I should (only) notice a difference with upscaling DVDs?

I wouldn't agree with that entirely, but I would say that the differences are more subtle when delivering digital video/audio than analogue.

I don't understand why, because there's the argument that digital information either gets there or it doesn't, but I notice less noise on the blu-ray picture from my Oppo when compared to my Sony BDP-S350, so the picture appears sharper. Also, the sound is a little less harsh. Having said that, these differences are minimal and does it warrant spending £300 more on the Oppo, no in my opinion. That's where the extra qualities of the player come into play if you have need of them.

The best upscaling of SD material I've seen and SACD/DVD-Audio/MKV playback.

 

[cwalduck]

Here we go again,

Just think of freeview reception you get blocking quite often these are errors in reception but not a complete loss of picture or sound, So you either get the signal or not dosn't hold true.

You can recieve digital data but error correction is used to plug the holes, somtimes it plugs them well some times it dosn't, you get better sound/pictues when no/little error correction is used.

Information errors can start with reading data from the disk and those introduced by jitter/timeing errors and electrical noise. The better the equipment the better the sound/picture.

 

[Anonymous]

professorhat:
I have to say, I'm extremely dubious about most things Will is saying now

Has there ever been a time when you haven't?

Once some of you have had a chance to compare these players and specifically tried an Oppo, then I'd be interested to hear your views.

All I can say is that I haven't been speculating in the posts I've made. You don't have to believe me. In fact the one big area of consistency the Prof has shown is in disliking me. You don't find my posts scattered with comments about you.

I've been consistent in praising the Oppo, having tried and owned one. I suggest those of you who want answers find someone who has one, take your player along to test against it or find a friendly retailer and do some actual testing.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:For my needs, the Oppo.

Just when I hoped the much awaited blog would clear things up I'm more confused than ever.

I've been waiting for 2 months now for the OPPO review and for the Awards issue as I really want to upgrade from my PS3

I read the Blog thought "yes" it has to be the OPPO , and then this

Andrew Everard:For my needs, the Oppo.

What does that mean , for your needs as the top Blu Ray player bit streaming only by HDMI ,or by using the phonos, as a SACD machine perhaps, or a universal player?

For my needs I am looking for the best Blu Ray player bit streaming direct to my Yamaha Z7 .

Others are suggesting that if bit streaming , then any old player will do ,so I might as well buy the cheapest player I can find.

I disagree ,having home demo a Pioneer 320 and Denon 2500 bit stream only, to a Yamaha Z7 there was little difference in picture quality but a marked difference in sound dynamics so much so I thought the volume had increased , checked with a sound meter and it hadn't , the Denon just had the edge.

I didn't go for the Denon because of slow loading speed and it didn't have source direct,so my quest continues and I will wait for the Awards Issue.

As for digital data is it beyond technology to take a disc find out how much 0's 1's are on it and measure how many come from the output ?

You could also measure HDMI cable the same way , to confirm that what goes in one end comes out the other.

I agree with cwalduck as for as data dropout is concerned , that is another reason against the all HDMI and Blu Ray players are the same argument.

It has also taken me along time to realise that reviews are really the waste of time as you only get part of the picture.

This stands true for WHF and Home cinema choice

You never get a description of the whole system chain used in a review i.e. you are given the results of the individual piece of kit but do not know what cables, what amp, what speaker cables, what speakers, or what display was used ,so how can you judge how everything in the review matches your system , yes you can buy the reviewed item but if your speakers/ display or whatever is lacking compared to the review setup then you are in for a disappointment and back to square one.

Please can you print the complete review system, I'm sure what Andrew used at home is not the same as used in the WHF demo room,or is it?

I realise no review can cover all combinations of equipment available but you can print what was used, can't you?

Even the majority of posters on this forum proudly display the kit they use

 

[Alec]

Will Harris:professorhat:

I have to say, I'm extremely dubious about most things Will is saying now

All I can say is that I haven't been speculating in the posts I've made.

Um...think you'll find Andrew hasn't either. That was kind of my point...

 

[Andrew Everard]

If you read the whole blog, you'll understand the requirements I had of the player, and how it measured up to them.

And I'm going to say it again: the blog wasn't intended as a formal review of the product, but as personal hands-on impressions.

By your standards that's probably even more of a waste of time.

The system I use is different from the magazine's reference systems, and detailed in one of the very first posts in the Your systems section, but for the record the set-ups mainly used during the time I was writing the blog on the Oppo included the following:

Onkyo TX-SR875
TAG McLaren Audio AV32Rbp192/100x5R:10
Naim DVD5
Sony SCD-XA5400ES
Musical Fidelity Superchargers
PMC OB1/TB6C/GB1/DB1/TLE1
Fujitsu 50in plasma display panel
All cabling from The Chord Company

 

[AndrewH13]

Will Harris:Got it in one.

Oppo does other things much better than your Panny, such as load times, reaction times, choice of audio outs, SACD, DVD-A, DVD upscaling, all round greatness and ease of turning multi-region, but for the transmission of Blu-Ray 1080p24 material, bitstreamed, then yes, there is no difference between the Oppo and the Panny BD35.

Will,

If there IS no difference of bitstream sound transmitted digitally, why are Pioneer's new Receivers claiming Jitter reduction technology over their earlier range, and Denon similar with Denon link etc? I trust what you believe you heard, but you were listening to a film soundtrack. Maybe audio tests of high quality audio would show different results?

Come on What Hi-Fi, a reader test with bitstream sound from players into say an Arcam600. (and Streaming lossless Audio via PC hard-drive/Sonos system/Naim Unity/Ipod digital out dock/Oppo83 on CD and Oppo connected USB...... for another easy one!)

 

[AndrewH13]

Andrew Everard:
If you read the whole blog, you'll understand the requirements I had of the player, and how it measured up to them.

The system I use is given in one of the very first posts in the Your systems section, but for the record the system mainly used during the time I was writing the blog on the Oppo included:

Onkyo TX-SR875
TAG McLaren Audio AV32Rbp192/100x5R:10
Naim DVD5
Sony SCD-XA5400ES
Musical Fidelity Superchargers
PMC OB1/TB6C/GB1/DB1/TLE1
Fujitsu 50in plasma display panel
All cabling from The Chord Company

Aha... Andrew, someone using an Oppo into same amp as I have! How does analogues into the AV32dualprocessor192 compare with the (over-hyped?) HDMI transfer into your Onkyo or any other HDMI Processor/amp you may have tried? In a moment of weakness I considered, what I think would be downgrading my Tag, and switching to an HDMI amp for convenience. But I then spoke to John Dawson (Arcam) at the Bristol What HiFi show and he said that the Tag AV32 would have broadly similar sound quality to the Arcam 600, which made me re-appraise switching to a £1000-2000 amp.

I also found with the TAG32, I had to reduce the Sub for bypass inputs rather than increase by 10dB as has been widely suggested on other forums. Have you any findings in this area?

 

[Andrew Everard]

No probs at all with the analogue outs into the TMA kit. Have to say the Onkyo has been used more, as a lot of my listening of late has been to SACDs for Gramophone reviewing, but yes, the player sounds good into the AV32R's bypass input.

And not aware of any sub problems, or need to juggle levels, but then the processor was extensively (and exhaustively) calibrated using the TMREQ set-up yonks ago - not, of course, that this is in use when running the 5.1bp inputs -, and I'm not a great one for room-shaking 'home cinema'-type bass.

 

[professorhat]

Will Harris:You don't have to believe me. In fact the one big area of consistency the Prof has shown is in disliking me. You don't find my posts scattered with comments about you.

I think you're taking my comments too personally - I found some of your comments bizarre (with the almost religiously zealous support of what is essentially a piece of electronics) and at other times offensive (but we won't go into that again) and yes, like almost everyone here, I've poked some light hearted fun at you as a result, but I've never said anything personal about you.

The above is the same, I find your results dubious given my own testing, but as I qualified, I haven't tested the same players as you.

 

[Anonymous]

professorhat:
Will Harris:You don't have to believe me. In fact the one big area of consistency the Prof has shown is in disliking me. You don't find my posts scattered with comments about you.

"I think you're taking my comments too personally"

"I found some of your comments bizarre (with the almost religiously zealous support of what is essentially a piece of electronics) and at other times offensive (but we won't go into that again)"

"and yes, like almost everyone here, I've poked some light hearted fun at you as a result"

"but I've never said anything personal about you."

Prof, first off, you're contradicting yourself. You can have it one way or the other, but not both ways. So which is it? Either you've never said anything personal about me or you're poking light hearted fun at me. You decide. I've asked you to stop. That should be enough.

Secondly, the comment you made regarding my "offensive" posts is completely inexcusable. You have no right to insinuate that posts I've made have been offensive when the one that you're referring to has been taken, by you, out of context. You took great pleasure in setting my comments about the enforced viewing at the beginning of "Charlie Wilson's War" completely apart from what I was actually talking about. Let me remind you, Charlie Wilson's War contains a four minute video narrated by Gwyneth Paltrow about the horrors of HIV/AIDS in Africa. This was an excellent and enlightening video and my objection was simple. You cannot fast forward it, skip it, jump to the menu or in any way avoid watching it. It is enforced upon you by the way the DVD was authored. I made it clear in my post on this issue that I didn't mind watching it the first time, but I objected to being made to watch it every single time I popped that film into the player. I bought a film, I didn't give someone permission to enter my lounge and make me watch a humanitarian video. I objected to this. This happens to be the longest such video I've seen at the start of a DVD and I don't object to it's presence I object to the removal of all controls from the viewer. This is cynical on the part of the DVD's producers. The Oppo offers you the option to press the yellow button on the remote when you pop a DVD in and skip straight to the start of the main feature, skipping the menus, copyright warnings, trailers and anything else the producers in their great wisdom have deemed you must watch. If you pay for your DVDs then you should have the right to control what you watch. This is not offensive. This is about usability of the DVD. I object strongly to your witch-hunt against me, suggesting that in not wanting to watch this humanitarian piece every time I put the disk on to watch, I am in some way disgraceful and offensive. How dare you.

I have no further interest in any posts you make. You make this personal. You receive no censorship in so doing inspite of the fact that your posts are clearly aimed at and offensive to me.

AndrewH13:
Will Harris:Got it in one.

Oppo does other things much better than your Panny, such as load times, reaction times, choice of audio outs, SACD, DVD-A, DVD upscaling, all round greatness and ease of turning multi-region, but for the transmission of Blu-Ray 1080p24 material, bitstreamed, then yes, there is no difference between the Oppo and the Panny BD35.

Will,

If there IS no difference of bitstream sound transmitted digitally, why are Pioneer's new Receivers claiming Jitter reduction technology over their earlier range, and Denon similar with Denon link etc? I trust what you believe you heard, but you were listening to a film soundtrack. Maybe audio tests of high quality audio would show different results?

Come on What Hi-Fi, a reader test with bitstream sound from players into say an Arcam600. (and Streaming lossless Audio via PC hard-drive/Sonos system/Naim Unity/Ipod digital out dock/Oppo83 on CD and Oppo connected USB...... for another easy one!)

Hi Andrew, well, I have to say, I can't think of any reason why they'd need them other than marketing differentiation. Manufacturers are struggling to separate their players and HDMI processing from one another and they'll grab onto any gimmick going to suggest they have an edge over one another. At some point the penny is going to drop for everyone, but it requires the usual rule book be thrown out of the window. For BluRay 1080p24 video playback, I found the Denon DVD A1UD performed just as well as the Sony BDP S350 streaming via HDMI. I found the same inability to tell the players apart bitstreaming audio. Considering the quality of the gear tested with this players, I think that if there had been a difference I'd have seen and heard it. That is what I found. I don't dispute that others have heard and seen what they said they have, but I'd recommend to anyone, that if you get the chance to test these decks blind please take it. The inclination to want to perceive differences between these machines is huge. We all have brand loyalties and designs we prefer above others and this seems to be such an emotive subject amongst enthusiasts.

My position is clear. I haven't found differences. I will take part in another blind test on the 24th of this month where we'll quickly re-run the BluRay video and audio test and see if again the differences are too small to tell. This time instead of using a £6000 JVC projector, we'll use a top of the range Panasonic plasma and the same Denon AVP A1HD / POA A1HD pre/pro and Pioneer Reference speakers / Velodyne 1812 sub. £35,000 worth of amps and speakers. Frankly, if you can't hear a difference using them, then you never will! But I'll report back and let you know.

Have a good weekend all. F1 qualifying was dramatic in a way we haven't seen for ages, made for an excellently chilled morning!

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:

If you read the whole blog, you'll understand the requirements I had of the player, and how it measured up to them.

And I'm going to say it again: the blog wasn't intended as a formal review of the product, but as personal hands-on impressions.

By your standards that's probably even more of a waste of time.

I don't know if this was a reply to my post, but I appreciate the extra detail, the speakers you use are on my shortlist for my next upgrade which I found of interest.

I think I did pick up on the fact that you were using the OPPO more for audio ( SACD ) than for AV , you are after all Audio editor of Gramophone and I , right or wrong , always suspect What Hi Fi to be more interested in Hi Fi than home cinema , with the sound and vision being forced upon the publication by competition with another dedicated HC magazine , I respect peoples choice to have Hi Fi or HC as there deciding preference.

But it is not always clear in reviews what the bias is , as in the OPPO unless I misinterpreted I believe it is in HiFi and not in HC

Big Aura has already asked "Hypothetically, if you were someone with no interest in SA-CD, does it still rank as your first choice for BD + DVD?" and you replied "propably not."

For me this is the clear answer I would like from blogs/reviews as in hindsight, I find the real answers are found by "reading between the lines" as a magazine consumer I do not feel I should have to do this.

I buy a magazine to give clear unambiguous guidance for a shortlist of equipment to upgrade to, suited for the service I prefer , which in my case is HC , if a player is more suited to Hi Fi then I will pass it by.

I enjoyed the blog and did not by any means find

Andrew Everard:

By your standards that's probably even more of a waste of time.

 

[professorhat]

Will Harris:Secondly, the comment you made regarding my "offensive" posts is completely inexcusable. You have no right to insinuate that posts I've made have been offensive when the one that you're referring to has been taken, by you, out of context.

I have every right to comment about how I found some of your posts offensive when that is how I found them. Just as you now have a right to comment on how you're now finding my posts offensive. I would also expect neither to be censored since no house rules are being broken.

Will Harris:You took great pleasure in setting my comments about the enforced viewing at the beginning of "Charlie Wilson's War" completely apart from what I was actually talking about.

I took absolutely no pleasure in it as the tone of my posts at the time indicated. I completely understood the point you were making, but the manner in which you went about it offended me (I won't go into details as to why as that should be completely obvious and unnecessary to most people). I still find it offensive to be honest, especially the fact that you have brought it up again - as I've said before, let's just leave it.

Will Harris:I have no further interest in any posts you make. You make this personal. You receive no censorship in so doing inspite of the fact that your posts are clearly aimed at and offensive to me.

Given this, I'll agree to no longer comment on any of your posts if you'll agree me the same courtesy. I think this is the best way forward to save any further offense on either side's part.

 

[Anonymous]

professorhat:
I'll agree to no longer comment on any of your posts if you'll agree me the same courtesy. I think this is the best way forward to save any further offense on either side's part.

You have my agreement. Have a good weekend.

Will

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Will,

As an owner and great admirer of the Oppo how do you rate the Analogue DAC's from the player for 7.1 HD sound and indeed DVD 5.1 output as I am wondering whether the upgrade from my cyrus discmaster 8.0/Sammy 250 via my Arcam AVR280 is worth the outlay.

Cheers.

 

[Anonymous]

Bemused:
Hi Will,

As an owner and great admirer of the Oppo how do you rate the Analogue DAC's from the player for 7.1 HD sound and indeed DVD 5.1 output as I am wondering whether the upgrade from my cyrus discmaster 8.0/Sammy 250 via my Arcam AVR280 is worth the outlay.

Cheers.

I thought the multichannel analogues were very good, but my Arcam AVR600, connecting via HDMI, just had the legs on it in my opinion. A little bit more depth and richness to the sound decoding in the Arcam. That said, I thought the 2ch analogue outs (which use different DACs) were very good indeed. Overall, as an analogue solution you get into the realms where differences can be heard and you really need to audition it yourself. I haven't done a lengthy shoot-out of the multichannel analogues mostly because they're such a pain to change over between players.

Considering the players you've got, I wouldn't bother changing to the Oppo unless it does something else you need. Instead, I'd concentrate on upgrading your Arcam AVR280 to a 600 or 500 when you can afford it. I think you'll find that gives you a greater leap in performance and allows you to decode BluRay audio in the amp. That's what I would do if I was in your position, but I can see the Oppo at £450 being tempting. Tough call.

 

[Clare Newsome]

To clarify at earlier point, we certainly didn't have the 'Sound and Vision' bit foisted on WHF (way back in 2001) - the mag was already testing AV, and the name was changed to reflect that greater spread of coverage.

As you can clearly see by clicking on the About Us tab, we have full, dedicated testing facilities for hi-fi and AV (and a mix of both for dual-purpose systems!) No other mag has this.

As to bias in testing re features... again, no. We test a product in its context - ie, what would you expect that product's primary purpose(s) to be, and how well does it perform for its price.

Therefore, any Blu-ray player will be primarily judged for its Blu-ray performance - sound and vision- and secondly its performance with DVDs, but also tested and ranked for music performance plus any other features it offers (streaming; connectivity etc).

Where a player has a unique or rare feature - such as the Oppo's ability to play SACD and DVD-Audio - that will of course also be tested and evaluated against any available rivals.

PS - any further Prof v Will spats will be deleted - tedious for everyone else reading; rise above it, chaps.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Will. Your views are very much appreciated because the last thing I want to do is spend money on a non-improving unit when I could improve my Front speakers to Aelite 3's or B&W's for a bit more than the £450 Oppo. I want to wait until I can get an AVR500 rather than get another Amp for the sake of it.

Cheers!

 

[D.J.KRIME]

 

[Andrew Everard]

lesmor:, right or wrong , always suspect What Hi Fi to be more interested in Hi Fi than home cinema , with the sound and vision being forced upon the publication by competition with another dedicated HC magazine , I respect peoples choice to have Hi Fi or HC as there deciding preference.

It's good to hear that view, since some critics of the magazine would say there's too much home cinema and not enough hi-fi. So clearly we have the balance about right.

And as for the dedicated home cinema magazines, I don't think we view them as competition, just as Ford probably doesn't lose too much sleep over what Morgan is up to...

(By the way, good playground duty, Ms N

)