Oppo BDP-831?

[Anonymous]

pete321:
Will Harris: Why would you buy a dedicated CD player if you had the Oppo?

I've had plenty of CD players that sound better than the Oppo, you'd probably have to spend in excess of £300 to notice a difference, but you would notice.

Well, unless the A1UD is underperforming, I'd have to say, not in my experience. When I first heard the Oppo against a CD player it was the Arcam CD37 and I couldn't tell them apart. Perhaps after extended listening you could, but if you're streaming the disc content digitally to an amp to decode and process, then I can't say I've heard any difference.

That's my experience. Be very keen to do a blind test on CD players to see what I can hear. I would expect you'd have to live with a player and find out whether the sound was "listenable" or eventually became wearing. In my brief tests, I've found the Oppo's 2ch analogues to be exceptional.

 

[pete321]

The Denon isn't a dedicated CD player and their dedicated CD players aren't the most exciting listen anyway. If you were using a dedicated CD player you wouldn't be streaming it, it would connect via analogues. The DacMagic gives better stereo results than the DAC in the AVR600, that should tell you something.

 

[Anonymous]

pete321:
The Denon isn't a dedicated CD player, if you were using a dedicated CD player you wouldn't be streaming it, it would connect via analogues. The DacMagic gives better stereo results than the DAC in the AVR600, that should tell you something.

I wasn't streaming it. I said I tested the analogues against an Arcam CD37 and couldn't tell them apart.

I also said, that I couldn't tell them apart when streaming digitally either.

I've also heard good things about the DAC Magic, but really, isn't that the point of a player like the Arcam CD37? To have a better analogue stage? Except, I didn't find it did. Or perhaps the Oppo just has a really good analogue stage and was built to be the best they could build for the price rather than engineered to be as good as any other £450 player as cheaply as possible.

Two totally different approaches; about to be thoroughly tested. One will be found wanting.

 

[John Duncan]

Will Harris:I said I tested the analogues against an Arcam CD37 and couldn't tell them apart

Ooo, a world-beater then.

 

[pete321]

JohnDuncan:[Ooo, a world-beater then.

Not where CD playback is concerned in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

But considerably more than £300 worth of CD player.

I tell you what, I'm going to have to have an audition of the DAC Magic. Pete, don't you have a modded one?

 

[pete321]

Yes it's modded, but unmodded it'll match the AVR600.

The last CD player I had was a Linn Genki, it wouldn't be fair on the Oppo to try and compare it to that, but I still think you'd notice a substancial difference if you connected the stereo analogue outs of the Oppo and a CD player like the CA Azur 650C.

I gave up the benefits of a dedicated CD player for having my whole music collection at a click of my Media Center remote, the DacMagic has helped to bring some of that quality back.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Will Harris:pete321:
The Denon isn't a dedicated CD player, if you were using a dedicated CD player you wouldn't be streaming it, it would connect via analogues. The DacMagic gives better stereo results than the DAC in the AVR600, that should tell you something.

I wasn't streaming it. I said I tested the analogues against an Arcam CD37 and couldn't tell them apart.

I also said, that I couldn't tell them apart when streaming digitally either.

I've also heard good things about the DAC Magic, but really, isn't that the point of a player like the Arcam CD37? To have a better analogue stage? Except, I didn't find it did. Or perhaps the Oppo just has a really good analogue stage and was built to be the best they could build for the price rather than engineered to be as good as any other £450 player as cheaply as possible.

Two totally different approaches; about to be thoroughly tested. One will be found wanting.

You may find this useful...

 

[jase fox]

EDITED BY MODS for House Rules

 

[Big Aura]

Andrew Everard:Big Aura:Hypothetically, if you were someone with no interest in SA-CD, does it still rank as you first choice for BD + DVD?

Probably not

Oooh, cat/pigeons.... What ranks above for purely dvd/bd use? (in your opinion). cheers.

 

[professorhat]

Will Harris:Great blog. Thought I was the one accused of eulogising! Ha! Nice to see that none of the irritation cause be me and the like over the last months, dampened your enthusiasm for the Oppo Andrew.

I helped run a blind test of the Oppo and a number of other BluRay players over at a North London retailer, TLC Broadcast, a couple of weekends ago, we tested the:

PS3
Sony S350

Denon DVD3800BD

Denon DVD A1UD

Pioneer BDP LX91

Oppo BDP 83

It was the toughest test I've seen as we only tested HDMI using BluRay material. The Amp was the Denon AVP A1HD and POA A1HD combo. Speakers were Pioneer Reference Series, so basically about £20,000 of speakers and amp plus a £13,000 Velodyne 1812 sub. The room was treated and the projector we used was the new JVC 950.

On BluRay material, there just wasn't anything in it, all the players performed well. In fact, although the Oppo came out on top, when we run the test again (with the benefit of a bit of practise now!) in a couple of weeks time, I have no doubt the order will change again, and frankly we were clutching at straws to tell the players apart.

My goodness, this all from the man who only a few weeks ago was declaring that WHF were taking "bungs" from the likes of Denon and Sony because they wouldn't release the review of a grey import and that the Oppo would wipe the floor with any Blu-Ray player (price not withstanding). Suddenly, a confirmed European version and a glowing blog and we get the above...!

Still, I'm glad the world is a happy place for everyone again...

 

[The_Lhc]

pete321:Will Harris: Why would you buy a dedicated CD player if you had the Oppo?

I've had plenty of CD players that sound better than the Oppo, you'd probably have to spend in excess of £300 to notice a difference, but you would notice. I played a ripped CD (WMA Lossless) via my external DAC to the AVR600 and then the actual CD both via the DAC and direct to the AVR600, the WMA Lossless via the DAC beat the Oppo hands down. It's and excellent BD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/MKV player but it doesn't compare to a dedicated CD player.

How would you know? You didn't compare it to a dedicated CD player!

 

[pete321]

the_lhc:pete321:Will Harris: Why would you buy a dedicated CD player if you had the Oppo?

I've had plenty of CD players that sound better than the Oppo, you'd probably have to spend in excess of £300 to notice a difference, but you would notice. I played a ripped CD (WMA Lossless) via my external DAC to the AVR600 and then the actual CD both via the DAC and direct to the AVR600, the WMA Lossless via the DAC beat the Oppo hands down. It's and excellent BD/DVD/SACD/DVD-A/MKV player but it doesn't compare to a dedicated CD player.

How would you know? You didn't compare it to a dedicated CD player!

Playing the Oppo using CD's on my own system and know from previous experience it's the equivalent of a £200 CD player using analogues. However, if you're using the Oppo as a CD player, you're likely to be streaming it, in which case if you have an AV amp like the AVR600, then you'll get more out of it because of the abilities of that amp. But if you're talking a straight fight between a good £300+ CD player and the Oppo using analogues, it'd be the CD player that won, I'll re-phrase that, I'd bet it would be the CD player that won.

If you're one the people that think the Oppo is as good a CD player as an Arcam CD37, then that's good news for you as you'll be saving a lot of dosh! Personally, it wouldn't satisfy my needs if I was back in the market for a CD player.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Big Aura:Oooh, cat/pigeons.... What ranks above for purely dvd/bd use? (in your opinion). cheers.

The 2009 What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision Awards issue is on sale on October 20, and available earlier to subscribers and visitors to the Manchester Sound and Vision Show.

 

[AndrewH13]

pete321:
If you were using a dedicated CD player you wouldn't be streaming it, it would connect via analogues.

My dedicated CD player (actually its the TAG McLaren DVD32 - but was sold as a product with very high quality CD output) doesn't have analogue outputs, only two digital leads, one for signal, one for jitter sync. And although I love my Oppo 83, you wouldn't choose it for ultimate CD replay. Having said that, I'm moving majority of my CDs to ALAC lossless and playing through my SONOS and Tag processor's DAC's which sounds good enough for me. And having played a few music BluRay and SACDs ..... it's OPPO 83/SONOS for me from now on - how much is the TAG DVD32 worth if I sell !!!

 

[Anonymous]

Re Will's/TLC blind testing:

I just cannot believe there was no perceived difference between the Oppo and the likes of the Denon A1-UD or Pionner's 91...I mean really, is that a £4.5k mark-up for Denon then ?

I'm all for praise for a £400 player if it's shooting way above it's weight, be it the Oppo or any other brand, but when we are suddenly in the realms of 'there was no difference' or the 'Oppo came out on top' I have to say it's getting a bit far fetched for me...

Was this the dealer's overall verdict also ? It doesn't say much for TLC's eyes & ears if so. Logically, it wouldn't be really worth them stocking higher end items if so, or are they as cynical as the Likes of Denon and Marantz in grossly over charging their customers ? I think not.

And now we're into beating CD players and even questioning the need for them, because, again, Mr Harris couldn't perceive a difference to a Arcam CDP...?! Hmmm....

I should imagine, and hope, the magazine's final review will put a little, needed, perspective on all this saga. I'm more than sure the Oppo is a very fine universal player and heap due praise on it. Remembering IT'S price point, I'm sure it's hitting above it's weight and it's big plus being the first affordable universal BD player. It will find many fans and be all the player a lot of people need or even want....BUT, out-performing, or even making obsolete, dedicated players (whether they be BD, DVD or CD) of similar value or above...??, come on.....It is what it is.

 

[AndrewH13]

Andrew Everard:
Big Aura:Oooh, cat/pigeons.... What ranks above for purely dvd/bd use? (in your opinion). cheers.

The 2009 What Hi-Fi? Sound and Vision Awards issue is on sale on October 20, and available earlier to subscribers and visitors to the Manchester Sound and Vision Show.

Plug ;-)

Its like the adverts coming on ITV!

 

[AndrewH13]

SC:
I just cannot believe there was no perceived difference between the Oppo and the likes of the Denon A1-UD or Pionner's 91...I mean really, is that a £4.5k mark-up for Denon then ?

I'm all for praise for a £400 player if it's shooting way above it's weight, be it the Oppo or any other brand, but when we are suddenly in the realms of 'there was no difference' or the 'Oppo came out on top' I have to say it's getting a bit far fetched for me...

Was this the dealer's overall verdict also ? It doesn't say much for TLC's eyes & ears if so. Logically, it wouldn't be really worth them stocking higher end items if so, or are they as cynical as the Likes of Denon and Marantz in grossly over charging their customers ? I think not.

And now we're into beating CD players and even questioning the need for them, because, again, Mr Harris couldn't perceive a difference to a Arcam CDP...?! Hmmm....

I should imagine, and hope, the magazine's final review will put a little, needed, perspective on all this saga. I'm more than sure the Oppo is a very fine universal player and heap due praise on it. Remembering IT'S price point, I'm sure it's hitting above it's weight and it's big plus being the first affordable universal BD player. It will find many fans and be all the player a lot of people need or even want....BUT, out-performing, or even making obsolete, dedicated players (whether they be BD, DVD or CD) of similar value or above...??, come on.....It is what it is.

The test ONLY looked at 1080P/24 output from the players to a 1080P projector and Will says they were hard to differentiate. When magazines, including WHF, review players, they cannot make the assumption that everyone will be using this connection so they look at the broader picture especially for people who will have BluRay players processing involved.

In any case, if mag reviews said they were all similar using best connection and external Amp/Processors it would be a boring read!!!! (And wouldnt sell the mags ;-))

 

[Anonymous]

SC:
Re Will's/TLC blind testing:

I just cannot believe there was no perceived difference between the Oppo and the likes of the Denon A1-UD or Pionner's 91...I mean really, is that a £4.5k mark-up for Denon then ?

I'm all for praise for a £400 player if it's shooting way above it's weight, be it the Oppo or any other brand, but when we are suddenly in the realms of 'there was no difference' or the 'Oppo came out on top' I have to say it's getting a bit far fetched for me...

Was this the dealer's overall verdict also ? It doesn't say much for TLC's eyes & ears if so. Logically, it wouldn't be really worth them stocking higher end items if so, or are they as cynical as the Likes of Denon and Marantz in grossly over charging their customers ? I think not.

And now we're into beating CD players and even questioning the need for them, because, again, Mr Harris couldn't perceive a difference to a Arcam CDP...?! Hmmm....

I should imagine, and hope, the magazine's final review will put a little, needed, perspective on all this saga. I'm more than sure the Oppo is a very fine universal player and heap due praise on it. Remembering IT'S price point, I'm sure it's hitting above it's weight and it's big plus being the first affordable universal BD player. It will find many fans and be all the player a lot of people need or even want....BUT, out-performing, or even making obsolete, dedicated players (whether they be BD, DVD or CD) of similar value or above...??, come on.....It is what it is.

Mate it was a BLIND test. This means no-one knew which player was which. Trust me, they all tried jolly hard to get a pecking order.

TLC were not in the room. The let us use their facility and then stayed right out of the way. In fact, when we go back we'll be testing on a plasma to see whether it is more revealing than the PJ. But being incredulous about what we found, doesn't change anything. The winner in this test was the BluRay format.

Think about it, it's a 1080p24 encoded disc, being sent in exactly the same resolution, digitally from player to processor to PJ. No work is being done to the data save decoding it. It's not being de-interlaced or scaled. The Sony S350 performed just as well as the Denon DVD A1UD in this regard.

We didn't test DVD upscaling or handling of 1080i material. There are numerous reviews on the web already that cover the Oppo in this regard.

I can't see why anyone would be surprised at what we found. What could a more expensive player be expected to do differently with the material we used?

Now the analogue test was brief against the Denon, and I guess we spent about 20 minutes a/b-ing. It was enough to tell that the Oppo performed very well indeed. You don't have to like it. Test it yourself. There are many reasons why someone would want the Pioneer LX91 or Denon A1UD, maybe for the beauty of the beast, but none of those reasons is compelling to me. They're sluggish and in my experience, don't offer the performance improvement that you'd expect for the difference in price, or any at all for that matter.

We'll do a thorough blind test with DVD material next and see whether the differences fly out and hit you in the face with that material. Personally, I'd have said this was a good day for all of us. A £450 machine performs THAT well. You should all be happy. And then go and order one!

 

[Andrew Everard]

AndrewH13:The test ONLY looked at 1080P/24 output from the players to a 1080P projector and Will says they were hard to differentiate. When magazines, including WHF, review players, they cannot make the assumption that everyone will be using this connection so they look at the broader picture especially for people who will have BluRay players processing involved.
In any case, if mag reviews said they were all similar using best connection and external Amp/Processors it would be a boring read!!!! (And wouldnt sell the mags ;-))

A wider overview of the player's performance is what I've attempted to give in my hands-on blog, having been not testing the player but actually using it day to day - currently playing this as I write - for the past couple of months.

 

[pete321]

Big Aura:Oooh, cat/pigeons.... What ranks above for purely dvd/bd use? (in your opinion).

I reckon it'll be one of the new Pioneer's, probably the 320 for purely BD/DVD playback. Having said that it depends how important the SD scaling is to you. The Oppo turns a DVD picture in to near on blu-ray standard, I suspect the Pioneer's won't match the Oppo/Anchor Bay for upscaling of DVD's, but that's just a guess. I put the scaling qualities of the Oppo purely down to the Anchor Bay chip, but having recently got the Yamaha Z7 which uses the same chip, it appears the Oppo adds something else to the equation, because it's better than the Z7 at upscaling.

When it comes to blu-ray playback at normal viewing distance, i.e. not standing in front of your TV with a magnifying glass, I'm with Will, I don't think the differences are that massive between any of the top rated palyers.

 

[AndrewH13]

Andrew Everard:AndrewH13:The test ONLY looked at 1080P/24 output from the players to a 1080P projector and Will says they were hard to differentiate. When magazines, including WHF, review players, they cannot make the assumption that everyone will be using this connection so they look at the broader picture especially for people who will have BluRay players processing involved.
In any case, if mag reviews said they were all similar using best connection and external Amp/Processors it would be a boring read!!!! (And wouldnt sell the mags ;-))

A wider overview of the player's performance is what I've attempted to give in my hands-on blog, having been not testing the player but actually using it day to day - currently playing this as I write - for the past couple of months.

Personally, I'd buy a magazine of blogs over reviews anyday! 'Audiophile' (think it was called) a few years ago used to have many interesting articles of this nature - until it disappeared!!!

Have you listened to
Return To Forever - Returns - Live At Montreux 2008 on BluRay?

It has completely changed my mind about concert videos

 

[Anonymous]

AndrewH13:Andrew Everard:AndrewH13:The test ONLY looked at 1080P/24 output from the players to a 1080P projector and Will says they were hard to differentiate. When magazines, including WHF, review players, they cannot make the assumption that everyone will be using this connection so they look at the broader picture especially for people who will have BluRay players processing involved.
In any case, if mag reviews said they were all similar using best connection and external Amp/Processors it would be a boring read!!!! (And wouldnt sell the mags ;-))

A wider overview of the player's performance is what I've attempted to give in my hands-on blog, having been not testing the player but actually using it day to day - currently playing this as I write - for the past couple of months.

Personally, I'd buy a magazine of blogs over reviews anyday! 'Audiophile' (think it was called) a few years ago used to have many interesting articles of this nature - until it disappeared!!!

Have you listened to
Return To Forever - Returns - Live At Montreux 2008 on BluRay?

It has completely changed my mind about concert videos

I take it that means you love them now but didn't before?

I recommend the Keane BluRay live from Wembley. Unbelievable. If you like Keane of course!

 

[Anonymous]

why is everyone waiting for the review by what hi-fi when most other forums have stated it is a blindingly good player, are we all trying to be respectful, all oppo players box far above their own weight, I mean who makes a bd player that plays dvd audio and sacd's as well as being a good up-scaler of standard dvd's, just buy it and rest assured it is well future proofed until 3d get's established.

 

[hammill]

mains cables r us:why is everyone waiting for the review by what hi-fi when most other forums have stated it is a blindingly good player, are we all trying to be respectful, all oppo players box far above their own weight, I mean who makes a bd player that plays dvd audio and sacd's as well as being a good up-scaler of standard dvd's, just buy it and rest assured it is well future proofed until 3d get's established.
Well it is not on sale yet.... I will be buying based on Andrews blog and Will and Pete and various other websites I can't mention.