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Is OLED burn-in a problem? We want your input on one of TV’s hottest topics!
Andrew Everard:Just have to say Oppo 831 into Onkyo 875 with add-on power amps from TMA and MF, no complaints so far at this end...
Hi Andrew. What speakers are using within your test setup?
Hi Andrew. What speakers are using within your test setup?
PMCs: OB1s, GB1s, TB6C, DB1s and SUB TLE1. Biampage via a TAG 100X5R:10 and a pair of MF 550k Superchargers. Oh, and there's a naimuniti in there somewhere....
Andrew Everard:PMCs: OB1s, GB1s, TB6C, DB1s and SUB TLE1. Biampage via a TAG 100X5R:10 and a pair of MF 550k Superchargers
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WOW!!! Theres a few bob there.
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WOW!!! Theres a few bob there.
professorhat
Well-known member
- Dec 28, 2007
- 992
- 22
- 18,895
Andrew Everard:(And what does 'no offence' mean?)
A useless American Football team?
(yeah, guess who I support...
)
A useless American Football team?
(yeah, guess who I support...
Heard a similar netty Supertramp mix which was rather good
Andrew Everard:
AndrewH13:Quite disappointed with SACD Dark Side Of The Moon on the Oppo 83, I dug out the CD and the slight dullness disappeared. Anyone else find DSOTM SACD lacks bit of bite? It has been recommended a lot.
I much prefer the quad mix of DSOTM, which one can find online with a bit of hunting - ages since I got mine, so couldn't tell you where - and burn to a DVD-R.
Andrew Everard:
AndrewH13:Quite disappointed with SACD Dark Side Of The Moon on the Oppo 83, I dug out the CD and the slight dullness disappeared. Anyone else find DSOTM SACD lacks bit of bite? It has been recommended a lot.
I much prefer the quad mix of DSOTM, which one can find online with a bit of hunting - ages since I got mine, so couldn't tell you where - and burn to a DVD-R.
Andrew Everard:Just have to say Oppo 831 into Onkyo 875 with add-on power amps from TMA and MF, no complaints so far at this end...
Stop-it Andrew, you will be joining the Fanbois - LOL
PS - Just read your Gramo**** review of classical SACDs in the Library today, now I know why you are using the Oppo.
Stop-it Andrew, you will be joining the Fanbois - LOL
PS - Just read your Gramo**** review of classical SACDs in the Library today, now I know why you are using the Oppo.
Andrew Everard:Why, what else are we not being honest about? (And what does 'no offence' mean?)
Spelling mistakes aside, I find it usually means "I can say whatever I like about you and as long as I put "no offense" on the end you can't complain about it. Especially if I bung a smiley on there as well. You ******* ****. (NO OFENSE! LOL ROLF<! zort.)
Spelling mistakes aside, I find it usually means "I can say whatever I like about you and as long as I put "no offense" on the end you can't complain about it. Especially if I bung a smiley on there as well. You ******* ****. (NO OFENSE! LOL ROLF<! zort.)
AndrewH13:PS - Just read your Gramo**** review of classical SACDs in the Library today, now I know why you are using the Oppo.
No, those were reviewed on one of the Oppo universal DVD players.
This post made at 8:31 - how spooky is that? Cue Twilight Zone music...
No, those were reviewed on one of the Oppo universal DVD players.
This post made at 8:31 - how spooky is that? Cue Twilight Zone music...
Now the Cambridge is released the fight is really on.
Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"
What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"
What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
a) no news on confirmed UK price of Cambridge - we're chasing this
b) as previously detailed, it's not an 'Oppo clone' - they merely share some third-party technology
c) We're saying plenty about the Oppo on this and other threads, but as we've long said (and Oppo themselves have advised) we're waiting on publishing the review until we get pricing and distribution detail. Oppo want to be sure they can meet any demand that a feature may generate.
b) as previously detailed, it's not an 'Oppo clone' - they merely share some third-party technology
c) We're saying plenty about the Oppo on this and other threads, but as we've long said (and Oppo themselves have advised) we're waiting on publishing the review until we get pricing and distribution detail. Oppo want to be sure they can meet any demand that a feature may generate.
Will Harris:Now the Cambridge is released the fight is really on. Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
My Lord, I thought we'd gotten past this now? We all know that they are waiting on pricing and availability. If the pricing and availability haven't been confirmed then they won't be posting a review bereft of critical CONSUMER details as it is after all a consumer magazine. Why would it be some great travesty if the CA deck makes it to the market before the Oppo one does? Perhaps the CA unit has better circuitry in it that will give us a better audio experience? Perhaps it is only Oppo and Oppo alone that might be shooting themselves in the foot as far as the UK market is concerned? Personally I'd prefer there to be more than 1 "be all and end all" machine, if that is indeed the case.
My Lord, I thought we'd gotten past this now? We all know that they are waiting on pricing and availability. If the pricing and availability haven't been confirmed then they won't be posting a review bereft of critical CONSUMER details as it is after all a consumer magazine. Why would it be some great travesty if the CA deck makes it to the market before the Oppo one does? Perhaps the CA unit has better circuitry in it that will give us a better audio experience? Perhaps it is only Oppo and Oppo alone that might be shooting themselves in the foot as far as the UK market is concerned? Personally I'd prefer there to be more than 1 "be all and end all" machine, if that is indeed the case.
Tom Moreno:
Will Harris:Now the Cambridge is released the fight is really on. Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
My Lord, I thought we'd gotten past this now? We all know that they are waiting on pricing and availability. If the pricing and availability haven't been confirmed then they won't be posting a review bereft of critical CONSUMER details as it is after all a consumer magazine. Why would it be some great travesty if the CA deck makes it to the market before the Oppo one does? Perhaps the CA unit has better circuitry in it that will give us a better audio experience? Perhaps it is only Oppo and Oppo alone that might be shooting themselves in the foot as far as the UK market is concerned? Personally I'd prefer there to be more than 1 "be all and end all" machine, if that is indeed the case.
For precisely that reason. It's a consumer magazine. The wised up consumer could have been enjoying an Oppo since May/June but most won't even realise that this is possible and will buy a Panasonic or Pioneer thinking that for their budget this is the best they can get. It's the very fact that this is a "consumer" magazine that I'm constantly pushing to get the review out. FOR the consumer. It is less important that it's immediately available in a UK Oppo Shop, than that people know what to look out for, have some idea why they're waiting and that it is worth waiting. Or are presented with the alternative UK supplier as an option, based on whether the performance advantage (if WHF deems there to be one) make it worth jumping in through the alternative route.
Great that there are two players now using the same base hardware and therefore bringing universal players to the masses, but the reasons for holding back on a verdict are NOT consumer reasons, that's why I keep asking. Not here to annoy you Tom, but it is a review that's being waited on by many more than me. I happen to think that the hard work in getting a product this good to market at this kind of price DESERVES a bit of early editorial publicity. And frankly, this thread and the occasional mention on other threads doesn't amount to a review or editorial. We all know the difference some column inches can make to a manufacturer. It's hardly as though films aren't marketed months before their release. It is not unheard of to release editorial before a product hits the shelf.
Will Harris:Now the Cambridge is released the fight is really on. Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
My Lord, I thought we'd gotten past this now? We all know that they are waiting on pricing and availability. If the pricing and availability haven't been confirmed then they won't be posting a review bereft of critical CONSUMER details as it is after all a consumer magazine. Why would it be some great travesty if the CA deck makes it to the market before the Oppo one does? Perhaps the CA unit has better circuitry in it that will give us a better audio experience? Perhaps it is only Oppo and Oppo alone that might be shooting themselves in the foot as far as the UK market is concerned? Personally I'd prefer there to be more than 1 "be all and end all" machine, if that is indeed the case.
For precisely that reason. It's a consumer magazine. The wised up consumer could have been enjoying an Oppo since May/June but most won't even realise that this is possible and will buy a Panasonic or Pioneer thinking that for their budget this is the best they can get. It's the very fact that this is a "consumer" magazine that I'm constantly pushing to get the review out. FOR the consumer. It is less important that it's immediately available in a UK Oppo Shop, than that people know what to look out for, have some idea why they're waiting and that it is worth waiting. Or are presented with the alternative UK supplier as an option, based on whether the performance advantage (if WHF deems there to be one) make it worth jumping in through the alternative route.
Great that there are two players now using the same base hardware and therefore bringing universal players to the masses, but the reasons for holding back on a verdict are NOT consumer reasons, that's why I keep asking. Not here to annoy you Tom, but it is a review that's being waited on by many more than me. I happen to think that the hard work in getting a product this good to market at this kind of price DESERVES a bit of early editorial publicity. And frankly, this thread and the occasional mention on other threads doesn't amount to a review or editorial. We all know the difference some column inches can make to a manufacturer. It's hardly as though films aren't marketed months before their release. It is not unheard of to release editorial before a product hits the shelf.
But we have run news stories on it SINCE DECEMBER LAST YEAR. And have updated people on the UK release regularly via the News section, which (I know you'll be shocked to hear this) gets a lot more views than the Forums.
If you're waiting to find out which Blu-ray player to buy, you'll know the Oppo is coming if you read our News section.
If you're waiting to find out which Blu-ray player to buy, you'll know the Oppo is coming if you read our News section.
Will Harris:Tom Moreno:
Will Harris:Now the Cambridge is released the fight is really on. Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
My Lord, I thought we'd gotten past this now? We all know that they are waiting on pricing and availability. If the pricing and availability haven't been confirmed then they won't be posting a review bereft of critical CONSUMER details as it is after all a consumer magazine. Why would it be some great travesty if the CA deck makes it to the market before the Oppo one does? Perhaps the CA unit has better circuitry in it that will give us a better audio experience? Perhaps it is only Oppo and Oppo alone that might be shooting themselves in the foot as far as the UK market is concerned? Personally I'd prefer there to be more than 1 "be all and end all" machine, if that is indeed the case.
For precisely that reason. It's a consumer magazine. The wised up consumer could have been enjoying an Oppo since May/June but most won't even realise that this is possible and will buy a Panasonic or Pioneer thinking that for their budget this is the best they can get. It's the very fact that this is a "consumer" magazine that I'm constantly pushing to get the review out. FOR the consumer. It is less important that it's immediately available in a UK Oppo Shop, than that people know what to look out for, have some idea why they're waiting and that it is worth waiting. Or are presented with the alternative UK supplier as an option, based on whether the performance advantage (if WHF deems there to be one) make it worth jumping in through the alternative route.
Great that there are two players now using the same base hardware and therefore bringing universal players to the masses, but the reasons for holding back on a verdict are NOT consumer reasons, that's why I keep asking. Not here to annoy you Tom, but it is a review that's being waited on by many more than me. I happen to think that the hard work in getting a product this good to market at this kind of price DESERVES a bit of early editorial publicity. And frankly, this thread and the occasional mention on other threads doesn't amount to a review or editorial. We all know the difference some column inches can make to a manufacturer. It's hardly as though films aren't marketed months before their release. It is not unheard of to release editorial before a product hits the shelf.
Will - I doubt it is that the Oppo doesn't 'deserve' the coverage, however you are asking the team to make concessions for this product that other products aren't subject to. If they put out editorial on every product that looked good without pricing details, then WHF would cease to be a factual magazine and would also lose a lot of it's value to the consumer.
Will Harris:Now the Cambridge is released the fight is really on. Any news on a confirmed price? At this rate, you'll have reviewed the Cambridge Oppo clone before reviewing the Oppo. Which would be a tragedy in terms of Oppo having come to market with their product months before Cambridge. But if you won't release the review until they confirm the price one has to ask "what the blazes are you playing at Oppo?!"What I don't understand though, and this is where it looks less clear, is why What Hi-Fi are saying absolutely zip about the Oppo. You've had it long enough to review, and an uncomfirmed price is not enough to totally hold you back from releasing some form of blog or first impressions review. If you had no steer on price at all, that'd be understandable, but as you have a fairly firm impression that it'll be priced at £450 with a possible £500 if things change, I'd say that gives you plenty enough pricing information to go on. Holding back just looks like you don't want to release whatever you've got written.
My Lord, I thought we'd gotten past this now? We all know that they are waiting on pricing and availability. If the pricing and availability haven't been confirmed then they won't be posting a review bereft of critical CONSUMER details as it is after all a consumer magazine. Why would it be some great travesty if the CA deck makes it to the market before the Oppo one does? Perhaps the CA unit has better circuitry in it that will give us a better audio experience? Perhaps it is only Oppo and Oppo alone that might be shooting themselves in the foot as far as the UK market is concerned? Personally I'd prefer there to be more than 1 "be all and end all" machine, if that is indeed the case.
For precisely that reason. It's a consumer magazine. The wised up consumer could have been enjoying an Oppo since May/June but most won't even realise that this is possible and will buy a Panasonic or Pioneer thinking that for their budget this is the best they can get. It's the very fact that this is a "consumer" magazine that I'm constantly pushing to get the review out. FOR the consumer. It is less important that it's immediately available in a UK Oppo Shop, than that people know what to look out for, have some idea why they're waiting and that it is worth waiting. Or are presented with the alternative UK supplier as an option, based on whether the performance advantage (if WHF deems there to be one) make it worth jumping in through the alternative route.
Great that there are two players now using the same base hardware and therefore bringing universal players to the masses, but the reasons for holding back on a verdict are NOT consumer reasons, that's why I keep asking. Not here to annoy you Tom, but it is a review that's being waited on by many more than me. I happen to think that the hard work in getting a product this good to market at this kind of price DESERVES a bit of early editorial publicity. And frankly, this thread and the occasional mention on other threads doesn't amount to a review or editorial. We all know the difference some column inches can make to a manufacturer. It's hardly as though films aren't marketed months before their release. It is not unheard of to release editorial before a product hits the shelf.
Will - I doubt it is that the Oppo doesn't 'deserve' the coverage, however you are asking the team to make concessions for this product that other products aren't subject to. If they put out editorial on every product that looked good without pricing details, then WHF would cease to be a factual magazine and would also lose a lot of it's value to the consumer.
I'll give you another recent example. The cover of our next issue features a pair of Mission speakers, flagging up a review inside. Sadly, between the cover going to print and the review pages being sent, we found out the speakers had been delayed, so we pulled the review.
Yes, it means the cover doesn't match inside contents, but rather that than run a review for a product people can't buy, pre-order or audition.
(The Mission review will run online as soon as we get confirmation there are stocks in shops, BTW).
Yes, it means the cover doesn't match inside contents, but rather that than run a review for a product people can't buy, pre-order or audition.
(The Mission review will run online as soon as we get confirmation there are stocks in shops, BTW).
Clare Newsome:
I'll give you another recent example. The cover of our next issue features a pair of Mission speakers, flagging up a review inside. Sadly, between the cover going to print and the review pages being sent, we found out the speakers had been delayed, so we pulled the review.
Yes, it means the cover doesn't match inside contents, but rather that than run a review for a product people can't buy, pre-order or audition.
(The Mission review will run online as soon as we get confirmation there are stocks in shops, BTW).
Now that's a perfect example. Obviously other publications live to different sets of rules, but this is what we expect from WHF.
I'll give you another recent example. The cover of our next issue features a pair of Mission speakers, flagging up a review inside. Sadly, between the cover going to print and the review pages being sent, we found out the speakers had been delayed, so we pulled the review.
Yes, it means the cover doesn't match inside contents, but rather that than run a review for a product people can't buy, pre-order or audition.
(The Mission review will run online as soon as we get confirmation there are stocks in shops, BTW).
Now that's a perfect example. Obviously other publications live to different sets of rules, but this is what we expect from WHF.
If you did that, then I am at a loss as to who you're helping.
If it's factual that you want, then publish facts. I said above, that there are plenty of examples of reviews and editorial on products prior to their release. The Oppo is already available in the UK and is iminent from Oppo themselves. Delaying is just a form of knowledge control. Better that the general public don't know about it and don't hold off from buying that "whatever" brand player they had previously chosen.
This appears to be a methodology designed not to disrupt the hi-fi industry, rather than offering the consumer benefit of knowledge whenever it's accumulated.
For the record, I do not agree with this policy. A consumer magazine should not hold back knowledge or it becomes an industry stooge. I long to be able to say that WHF is not that. But whenever WHF withold information, keep useful reviews out of the public domain, that may impact on buying decisions then this is wrong. That's why I'd like to see the review released and people given the benefit of WHF's verdict on this piece of kit. (News of it's imminent arrival is not the same as a WHF review and opinion/verdict).
If it's factual that you want, then publish facts. I said above, that there are plenty of examples of reviews and editorial on products prior to their release. The Oppo is already available in the UK and is iminent from Oppo themselves. Delaying is just a form of knowledge control. Better that the general public don't know about it and don't hold off from buying that "whatever" brand player they had previously chosen.
This appears to be a methodology designed not to disrupt the hi-fi industry, rather than offering the consumer benefit of knowledge whenever it's accumulated.
For the record, I do not agree with this policy. A consumer magazine should not hold back knowledge or it becomes an industry stooge. I long to be able to say that WHF is not that. But whenever WHF withold information, keep useful reviews out of the public domain, that may impact on buying decisions then this is wrong. That's why I'd like to see the review released and people given the benefit of WHF's verdict on this piece of kit. (News of it's imminent arrival is not the same as a WHF review and opinion/verdict).
Big Aura
Well-known member
- Oct 13, 2008
- 522
- 10
- 18,895
the oppo was meant to be released in September, now it's october. It could slip until November, or December. Or they could change their mind and decide not to release it. WHF need to review products that are available, and by reference to the RRP price point/rivals at the same price.
There may be scope for a gossipy "the OPPO is coming" two-liner, but certainly not a review.
There may be scope for a gossipy "the OPPO is coming" two-liner, but certainly not a review.
Again, we've covered the Mission speakers in news - in-mag and on this website; if you're in the market for a pair of speakers at that price, you may wish to hold off purchase until you've read the reviews and had a chance to hear those speakers in action.
And that's the key point - if you can't try before you buy, or know what the definite price is before you add a product to your list of possibles, how do you know the product is right for you/your budget?
Our stance is in the interest of the consumer, based on years and years of doing this. We used to review products as soon as we got them in, which led to frustrations when people couldn't see/hear what we were writing about. Worse still is when the manufacturer made a last-minute change of price or - even worse - specification, so we'd have to re-review and the early coverage was rendered meaningless by our performance-per-pound criteria.
So we changed our policy to be sure that we were reviewing just what prospective purchasers could demo and then buy, at the price they'd pay.
In the case of the Oppo, we've clearly said on this thread and others that if you're planning a @£400-£500 Blu-ray purchase, to hold off until all the new models are out, or at least a wider selection, so you can properly assess all your options. And in our book, properly assessing all your options means knowing the price you're going to pay and where/when/how you can get your hands on the product concerned.
And that's the key point - if you can't try before you buy, or know what the definite price is before you add a product to your list of possibles, how do you know the product is right for you/your budget?
Our stance is in the interest of the consumer, based on years and years of doing this. We used to review products as soon as we got them in, which led to frustrations when people couldn't see/hear what we were writing about. Worse still is when the manufacturer made a last-minute change of price or - even worse - specification, so we'd have to re-review and the early coverage was rendered meaningless by our performance-per-pound criteria.
So we changed our policy to be sure that we were reviewing just what prospective purchasers could demo and then buy, at the price they'd pay.
In the case of the Oppo, we've clearly said on this thread and others that if you're planning a @£400-£500 Blu-ray purchase, to hold off until all the new models are out, or at least a wider selection, so you can properly assess all your options. And in our book, properly assessing all your options means knowing the price you're going to pay and where/when/how you can get your hands on the product concerned.
Sorry Will, you're being an idiot now, that's not an insult, it's a statement of fact.
WHF releases their review of the Oppo, thousands of people read it and all start asking "How much is it?", sorry, can't tell you. "Oh, OK, where can I get it from?", you can't. "What? Well, when will it be available then?", sorry don't know yet, "What was the point of this review again?", no idea!
Can you not see how ludicrous that situation would be?
As I think you've already worked out, your beef is not with WHF, it's with Oppo for not getting all this stuff sorted out earlier. For all we know they can't get the appropriate distribution channels sorted out (or whatever) and the machine may NEVER be released. I bet that's not the first time that's happened.
WHF releases their review of the Oppo, thousands of people read it and all start asking "How much is it?", sorry, can't tell you. "Oh, OK, where can I get it from?", you can't. "What? Well, when will it be available then?", sorry don't know yet, "What was the point of this review again?", no idea!
Can you not see how ludicrous that situation would be?
As I think you've already worked out, your beef is not with WHF, it's with Oppo for not getting all this stuff sorted out earlier. For all we know they can't get the appropriate distribution channels sorted out (or whatever) and the machine may NEVER be released. I bet that's not the first time that's happened.
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