Oh NO! Cables again!!

[Jasonovich]

I've certainly never seen either of those brands reviewed by WHF.

My original DAC was a Topping. Great product and a bit of Geopolitics I think with WHF.
Chi-Fi has arrived,

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I'm no fan of WHFs purely subjective reviewing methodology, and when they're claiming to hear differences between bits of wire, furniture and the like think they have little credibility.

Hovever, I've never bought into the conspiracy that reviews and advertising are linked.

I'd also question if you have as little faith in WHF reviews as you appear, why your so keen to have them review Topping & SMSL in the first place?

I'm not that keen on them reviewing anything as I don't trust them. look how many 5-star reviews they hand out

Of course advertising is linked. It's how they make money. They tell us that cables types matter when they don't, and they have cable advertising. They would never start saying cables don't matter as they'd immediated lose a large amount of advertising revenue.

If companies like Arcam and Marantz would rather WHF didnt review Chinese brands I'm sure the advertising revenue would impact WHF's decision to some degree.

 

[Al ears]

I'm sure they have tried sending to WHF. They seem to send them to everyone on YouTube etc for review. They send them to ASR. I'm sure WHF will chime in to tell us

Also even if they haven't, you'd think if WHF were serious and not biased they'd buy one to test and compare. The fact they're just silent on these brands is quite telling.

Of course to buy one they'd have to crack into their advertising revenue from the big brands.

I have a feeling WHF don't go out and buy kit for review.....and you are assuming said DACs have been sent.

 

[Al ears]

Not sure the editorial team know this forum exists...So if that's your goal, you're wasting time

Makes me wonder who then set up this forum......

 

[daveh75]

Makes me wonder who then set up this forum......

I very much doubt it was the editorial team.

I meant that there is no to little interaction from them on this forum... But I'm sure you know that!

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I have a feeling WHF don't go out and buy kit for review.....and you are assuming said DACs have been sent.

I'm almost certain they don't go out and buy kit for review. I have heard about a small amp manufacturer in the past, however, who offered one of their amps for review and WHF said they'd only review it if they could keep it.

Don't assume the Chinese manufacturers haven't offered DACs for review. They may well have. I can't see why they wouldn't have offered.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I very much doubt it was the editorial team.

I meant that there is no to little interaction from them on this forum... But I'm sure you know that!

if there is little interaction they must know about it

the forum transcends generations of WTH editorial teams btw.

 

[daveh75]

the forum transcends generations of WTH editorial teams btw.

I've been a member since 2008.... But not really.

When WHF was owned by Haymarket you had Andrew Everard, Clare Newsome etc all regulary contributing to the forum, but they're all, and those days are all long gone.

Then the Forum was closed and WHF taken over by Future and the forum resurrected, at most the current staff might occasionally respond to comments on articles but they certainly aren't active on the forum.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

I've been a member since 2008.... But not really.

When WHF was owned by Haymarket you had Andrew Everard, Clare Newsome etc all regulary contributing to the forum, but they're all, and those days are all long gone.

Then the Forum was closed and WHF taken over by Future and the forum resurrected, at most the current staff might occasionally respond to comments on articles but they certainly aren't active on the forum.

Fair enough. I remember the one back in the late 90s.

 

[Al ears]

I very much doubt it was the editorial team.

I meant that there is no to little interaction from them on this forum... But I'm sure you know that!

Admin probably comprises at least someone from the editorial team. They mainly deligate the day to day stuff to the moderarors

 

[Al ears]

I've been a member since 2008.... But not really.

When WHF was owned by Haymarket you had Andrew Everard, Clare Newsome etc all regulary contributing to the forum, but they're all, and those days are all long gone.

Then the Forum was closed and WHF taken over by Future and the forum resurrected, at most the current staff might occasionally respond to comments on articles but they certainly aren't active on the forum.

Corrrect although S. Haines and J.Cox do stick their heads in occasionally.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Did they not used to show some topics from the forums in the magazine? May have been many years ago as I don't think I've read the magazine for a long time!

 

[Jasonovich]

I'm not that keen on them reviewing anything as I don't trust them. look how many 5-star reviews they hand out

Of course advertising is linked. It's how they make money. They tell us that cables types matter when they don't, and they have cable advertising. They would never start saying cables don't matter as they'd immediated lose a large amount of advertising revenue.

If companies like Arcam and Marantz would rather WHF didnt review Chinese brands I'm sure the advertising revenue would impact WHF's decision to some degree.

There are some people on WHF who are low tier journalist with little or none HiFi accreditation and they play safe, they use the same template for the well known brands. I don't think they have the remit to operate outside their comfort zone.

I don't know how far you go back but I recall in my teens, when Japanese HiFi was making a big splash in the late 70s and WHF were back in the day, pretty antagonistic towards the Nippon up starters, today we see them as de'facto for quality. The South Koreans followed with Samsung, LG, KIA, Hyundai *Rose Audio, *MonAcoustic and et'al,
Now it's the Chinese turn, so many excellent HiFi products that are not getting the deserved coverage, such as Denafrips, Topping, SMSL, Eversolo, Hifimans, Holo Audio, Cayin, Hiby, TempoTec, Gustard, too many to mention.

Also Fosi and Ayima making the waves at the Budget end and the incredible XDUOO TA-66 budget tube head amp.

It does seem the WHF staff are living in alternative reality or they're just catering for the herd with a simple outlook on HiFi?

*Recent start ups relatively speaking.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

There are some people on WHF who are low tier journalist with little or none HiFi accreditation and they play safe, they use the same template for the well known brands. I don't think they have the remit to operate outside their comfort zone.

I don't know how far you go back but I recall in my teens, when Japanese HiFi was making a big splash in the late 70s and WHF were back in the day, pretty antagonistic towards the Nippon up starters, today we see them as de'facto for quality. The South Koreans followed with Samsung, LG, KIA, Hyundai *Rose Audio, *MonAcoustic and et'al,
Now it's the Chinese turn, so many excellent HiFi products that are not getting the deserved coverage, such as Denafrips, Topping, SMSL, Eversolo, Hifimans, Holo Audio, Cayin, Hiby, TempoTec, Gustard, too many to mention.

Also Fosi and Ayima making the waves at the Budget end and the incredible XDUOO TA-66 budget tube head amp.

It does seem the WHF staff are living in alternative reality or they're just catering for the herd with a simple outlook on HiFi?

*Recent start ups relatively speaking.

Exactly. If you look anywhere online you see the Chinese brands being talked about. My theory is that the old guard (arcam etc) don't like it as it's eating into their market share. The reality is though that these brands are making good products and are here to stay. China has some excellent electronic engineers. Look at the stuff from Holo Audio, Gustard etc. I guess WHF are trying to protect the UK companies by not mentioning the Chinese stuff.

 

[Jasonovich]

Did they not used to show some topics from the forums in the magazine? May have been many years ago as I don't think I've read the magazine for a long time!

I vaguely remember that.

I think it would be spiffen good if WHF had a publication review of a product then pass it over to the forum to review, i.e. someone with the highest credentials like AI ears will be nominated to make an honest review of the product. I don't qualify because I'm very easy to please, please can someone fill my glass, thank you!

 

[DougK1]

Exactly. If you look anywhere online you see the Chinese brands being talked about. My theory is that the old guard (arcam etc) don't like it as it's eating into their market share. The reality is though that these brands are making good products and are here to stay. China has some excellent electronic engineers. Look at the stuff from Holo Audio, Gustard etc. I guess WHF are trying to protect the UK companies by not mentioning the Chinese stuff.

There is one aspect where chi-fi has not been extensively tested yet, longevity. I guess only time will tell.
I have two pieces of chi-fi in my system, a head amp, about one year old and already the power stand-by LED has dimmed considerably. I'm really hoping the LED volume matrix readout does not go the same way.
The other is a Hanpin Pioneer Technics-clone turntable, a decent turntable hamstrung by terrible QC.
Conversely my sister has my first Marantz system, which is now 12 years old and has been totally reliable.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

There is one aspect where chi-fi has not been extensively tested yet, longevity. I guess only time will tell.
I have two pieces of chi-fi in my system, a head amp, about one year old and already the power stand-by LED has dimmed considerably. I'm really hoping the LED volume matrix readout does not go the same way.
The other is a Hanpin Pioneer Technics-clone turntable, a decent turntable hamstring by terrible QC.
Conversely my sister has my first Marantz system, which is now 12 years old and has been totally reliable.

That's a fair comment. There can be quality problems with some products. I think the more hi end stuff has less issues, however, and you're more likely to get things fixed efficiently if you do have a problem.

That said, if you get a DAC like the SMSL DU-1 which costs about £80, you'll get excellent sound, a DAC is unlikely to fail and if it does you can replace it for not much outlay.


I have an SMSL M300SE DAC and it has balanced outputs and single ended but the single ended is only 3mm jack which I managed to actually break. I shouldn't have bought it really as I can't currently use the balanced outputs. Need to think about things like outputs when you buy stuff.

 

[daveh75]

I'm almost certain they don't go out and buy kit for review.

They certainly have done in the past.

Notably AVI ADM 9.1.

Despite a largely positive 5* review of their predecessor, the rather divisive and outspoken Director of AVI didn't feel WHF understood the product, and had little time for their purely subjective tests (makes you wonder why he provided a pair for review in the first place) and regularly claimed they never received a single additional enquiry or sale as result of the review.

So point blank refused to provide the 9.1 for review, and as a result WHF finally resorted to going out and buying a pair (a couple of years after release IIRC)

I have heard about a small amp manufacturer in the past, however, who offered one of their amps for review and WHF said they'd only review it if they could keep it.

I suspect that's all it is, hearsay

 

[ToppingSMSL]

View: https://youtu.be/UoVixorZTDM?si=mZ3JMYIqytVTFS-w

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

Don't assume the Chinese manufacturers haven't offered DACs for review. They may well have. I can't see why they wouldn't have offered.

Let's not assume. And be wary about the tack you take in terms of bias - accusations of payola are not permitted on the forum, unless they are backed by evidence.

Doesn't mean you aren't allowed to be sceptical, just be careful with how you couch things please.

 

[ToppingSMSL]

Let's not assume. And be wary about the tack you take in terms of bias - accusations of payola are not permitted on the forum, unless they are backed by evidence.

Doesn't mean you aren't allowed to be sceptical, just be careful with how you couch things please.

You right. I suppose they perhaps don't want to test these Chinese products if they're not available in UK shops.

 

[Fandango Andy]

After some listening today, I am actually convinced that the QED XT25's are an improvement over the 12 AWG cables that I have been using for years. The XT25's are thinner at 14 AWG.
(and I haven't even 'burned them in' yet... what's the 'burn in time' for speaker cables? ROFL)
Must be the Air Gap and X Tube technology!

So much so that I'm going to order a pair of XT40i's for just $70 more and see how they sound... they might sound worse 'cos they're thicker @12 AWG

Unless you are running them over a long distance (over 20 meters), and the speakers don't have low impedance (below 6Ω nominal), there shouldn't be much difference between 12 and 14 gauge, certainly not a noticeable one.

In theory, the thicker the wire (assuming the same material) the better the sound as the lower the resistance. But most cable is thick enough for a couple of meters, at that length even 22AWG is enough to keep the resistance less than the magic 5% of the speaker’s nominal impedance if that's 6 or 8Ω.

 

[Fandango Andy]

That's a fair comment. There can be quality problems with some products. I think the more hi end stuff has less issues, however, and you're more likely to get things fixed efficiently if you do have a problem.

That said, if you get a DAC like the SMSL DU-1 which costs about £80, you'll get excellent sound, a DAC is unlikely to fail and if it does you can replace it for not much outlay.


I have an SMSL M300SE DAC and it has balanced outputs and single ended but the single ended is only 3mm jack which I managed to actually break. I shouldn't have bought it really as I can't currently use the balanced outputs. Need to think about things like outputs when you buy stuff.

Not sure if I was unlucky, or it's the lifespan of these products, but my SMSL SU-1 failed after 14 months. The warenty was 12 months!

Can't talk to the the manufacturer as they are in China. The distributor/importer were only contactable via Amazon. No option to repair, but they gave me 50% refund.

 

[DiggyGun]

Use the SMSL SU-1 DAC (AK4493S DAC Chip) in my office desk system. Also use the SMSL SA300 Amplifier.

Have tried the Khadas Tone Board DAC (ESS ES038Q2M DAC Chip) and the Topping D10s DAC (ESS ES038Q2M DAC Chip)

Been using them for a couple of years and very pleased with them.

DG…

 

[Jasonovich]

Unless you are running them over a long distance (over 20 meters), and the speakers don't have low impedance (below 6Ω nominal), there shouldn't be much difference between 12 and 14 gauge, certainly not a noticeable one.

In theory, the thicker the wire (assuming the same material) the better the sound as the lower the resistance. But most cable is thick enough for a couple of meters, at that length even 22AWG is enough to keep the resistance less than the magic 5% of the speaker’s nominal impedance if that's 6 or 8Ω.

It's nice to have the science (Resistance, Inductance, Capacitance relatively low) balanced with subjectivity.

I have tried so many types of cabling, QED, AudioQuest, Chord, generic wiring and many I fail to recall but these faux Nordost Valhalla 2s I got from AliExpress have really impressed me.

I highly recommend them