New turntable for a complete noob

[Deleted member 108165]

First impression is that the digital version is a lot quieter than the LP and the stereo image has swapped sides.

If the image has swapped sides then check your cable connections as it sounds like you have reversed them somewhere along the chain. Cartridge wiring L/R, phono leads L/R. It could even be that you have the tt wiring correct but the CD phono's are incorrect - swapped - I've done that before myself *biggrin*

 

[steve_1979]

Just another quick listen before I go to bed.

The weight has been reset to 1 gram and I'm giving the Foo Fighters Sonic Highways a quick spin. I'm just listening to as it comes rather than comparing it directly to the digital version. It sounds good. I like this.

After reading up on the M44G cartridge it sound like it could be better for home use than the M44-7 anyway so maybe the bent needle was a blessing in disguise.

A couple of questions if you may.
1. What anti-skate setting should I be using?
2. This record seems to be a bit warped by about 1-2mm. Will that make much difference to the sound?

 

[steve_1979]

First impression is that the digital version is a lot quieter than the LP and the stereo image has swapped sides.

If the image has swapped sides then check your cable connections as it sounds like you have reversed them somewhere along the chain. Cartridge wiring L/R, phono leads L/R. It could even be that you have the tt wiring correct but the CD phono's are incorrect - swapped - I've done that before myself *biggrin*

Yes of course! Why didn't I think of that?

I'll have a look tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[Al ears]

I'd set tracking slightly higher (1.2g) as most cartridges seem to be happier towards top end of range. Keep anti skate low, or below one and see how it goes.

This cartridge is listed as a DJ cartridge which probably means it is robust and tracks well, forget the scratching bit, you don't want to do that

 

[steve_1979]

I'd set tracking slightly higher (1.2g) as most cartridges seem to be happier towards top end of range. Keep anti skate low, or below one and see how it goes.

This cartridge is listed as a DJ cartridge which probably means it is robust and tracks well, forget the scratching bit, you don't want to do that

Thanks. I'll use those settings until the weekend when hopefully the setup LP I've ordered will have arrived to allow it to be set up properly.

 

[drummerman]

The new stylus has arrived!

It's the N44-GQ version which is a different one to the original. I'm not sure what difference that makes but hey we'll see. I've got it plugged in and it's all working fine. It's set up with 2g weight and 1 on the anti-skate. I'll set it up properly when the tuning/test record and spirit level arrives in the post in a day or two.

I've started testing it out with Massive Attack Mezzanine and it sounds alright. I have the digital file playing at the same time so I can do an A/B switch between them while they're playing so that they can be compared.

First impression is that the digital version is a lot quieter than the LP and the stereo image has swapped sides. Overall the digital version is definitely slightly better but the LP version is pretty good too. Not a huge amount inbetween them TBH. Which I guess is a good thing. To sum it up subjectively I'll say the digital version sounds a bit 'cleaner' and the bass seems to go very slightly deeper.

So far so good then and it's not been properly setup yet so hopefully it should improve more. I'm tentatively happy with the purchase so far but I'll let you know more at the weekend when I have more time to try it out and do a better job of setting it up.

The inherent higher noise floor and lesser channel separation of lp's possibly help 'fill in' the bits in between thus make it easier for the brain to piece together something coherent.

The highest possible resolution, separation, dynamic range etc etc is all good and fine but it does not always result in perceived nicer music.

Closer to reality? Not always but think about it, if you go to a concert or gig, surrounding noise levels are far higher than in an antiseptic studio recording where everything has been filtered out thus actually make a record closer to the real thing ... ?

 

[steve_1979]

So after a few days of ownership what are my impressions of vinyl? Well I'm certainly not a total convert as I find digital has definitely sounded better than vinyl every time so far. Sometimes only a bit better and sometimes a lot but it's always been better so far. However that's when doing a direct A/B comparison but when I just play and listen to vinyl on it's own it sounds fine even though I can tell it's not making the most of what the speakers are capable of.

It's a bit of a faff too which strangely I quite like but I wouldn't want to have to do that every time I listen to music. It's also makes a really cool looking desk ornament which is nice.

The Hifi News setup LP has arrived but I'm still waiting for the spirit level to arrive so it's still not ideally setup yet. It'll be interesting to see what difference that makes.

 

[Vladimir]

I appreciate that you are downplaying it for us, but we both know you were screaming like a little girl getting a pony, just lke I did when I got my SLs. Just say the words Steve. It's freaking kewl!

 

[steve_1979]

Oh don't got me wrong. I'm very happy with it and really really freakin' kewl. It's the best desk ornament I've ever seen.

 

[MeanandGreen]

So after a few days of ownership what are my impressions of vinyl? Well I'm certainly not a total convert as I find digital has definitely sounded better than vinyl every time so far. Sometimes only a bit better and sometimes a lot but it's always been better so far. However that's when doing a direct A/B comparison but when I just play and listen to vinyl on it's own it sounds fine even though I can tell it's not making the most of what the speakers are capable of.

It's a bit of a faff too which strangely I quite like but I wouldn't want to have to do that every time I listen to music. It's also makes a really cool looking desk ornament which is nice.

The Hifi News setup LP has arrived but I'm still waiting for the spirit level to arrive so it's still not ideally setup yet. It'll be interesting to see what difference that makes.

You share the same opinion as me pretty much. Direct comparisons usually suggest that digital is projecting the stereo image out a touch further and digital sounds sanitised (I mean that in a good way). In isolation though apart from the occasional bit of background noise vinyl is very enjoyable and not that far off TBH.

What I like is collecting pop records from the period before CD was mainstream. It's seems authentic to have copies of music on the format that was King at the time of release if that makes sense?

I have to admit that the 'hipster' in me likes watching records go round and I really like the look of my white turntable with it's funky blue slip mat on the top shelf of my Hi Fi rack. It's very 'kewl'!

Have you got any coloured vinyl yet? That makes me scream with excitement *biggrin*

 

[steve_1979]

I've read that the stereo image is terrible with vinyl but it's not really that bad at all. A little less wide and not as focused but still pretty good. One issue with the image that I've found is that the centre seems slightly off to one side. Hopefully that'll be sorted out when I get around to setting it up properly at the weekend.

I haven't got any colored vinyl yet (other than the sound ) but I used to have some 20 odd years ago when I had a go at rave DJing as a teen. I like the ones with patterns.

How do you guys find the quality of new vinyl compared to old? I've found that the new and heavier ones sound better than the old ones but my collection is tiny so I haven't go much data to go on.

 

[steve_1979]

Listening to Led Zeppelin Mothership on record tonight I enjoyed it more than I ever have with the digital versions. I'm not sure why though because it doesn't sound quite as good?

I have three versions of the the Mothership album; on vinyl, lossless FLAC ripped from the CD and an MP3 download from Amazon that came included when I bought the album. They all sound different due to clearly being made from different master versions but the best sounding one, oddly enough, is the MP3 version.

 

[lindsayt]

The thing with vinyl is that there is far more variation in the sound quality than with digital.

The worst sounding Technics that I've heard was with the stock arm and a moving magnet cartridge. It sounded as if the signal was being passed through a huge wodge of cotton wool. The best sounding Technics 1200 I've heard was one with an OL modded Rega arm and an Ortofon Rondo Bronze moving coil cartridge through the phono amp section of a Quad 99 pre amp.

On top of that, turntable location and support are vitally important for best sound quality.

Where is your Technics located relative to your speakers and sub Steve? And on what is it placed? A couple of photos would be a great answer.

A wallshelf might be a good solution. I've also had surprisingly good results from using an original Sound Organisation turntable table. The single shelf version of this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sound-Organisation-Turntable-stand-2-shelf-/301853840546?hash=item4647e414a2:g:7HcAAOSwHaBWknoZ

Chances are the 2 shelf version would also be a good TT support.

Steve, if you want to get vinyl sounding better than CD with albums like Jethro Tulls Broadsword and the Beast, Beatles Abbey Road, you may want to try upgrades in the following order: move TT well away from speakers, place TT on a rigid wallshelf / Sound Org type TT table, better arm eg modded Rega arm, MC cartridge, better phono amplification.

When your test record comes there'll be a nice couple of tests to show whether your channels are wired correctly and whether you're wired in phase or not.

 

[drummerman]

To get stunning hifi(high-end) vinyl replay costs money, takes tweaking and a lot of ongoing elbow grease.

Get it right and boy, can it beat even the very best digital replay systems, making them sound artificial and so ... (boringly) hifi ... as opposed to lifelike hifi (not to be mistaken as 'accurate').

Just go and listen to a well set-up world class Turntable system, either at a show or a dealers.

Even so, a cheaper, decent vinyl set-up can still do what equivelant CD ones can't.

How?

Perhaps the answer lies in one of my previous posts.

To compare the two is natural but the key lies in recognizing the strengths of either rather than looking for respective shortcomings.

Furthermore, to really appreciate what vinyl can do it is imho essential to listen to a genuine and well recorded analogue master recording.

 

[Vladimir]

*dirol*

 

[drummerman]

Give it to him boys. *dirol*

Best offer I've had today

 

[steve_1979]

Give it to him boys. *dirol*

Best offer I've had today

Considering your avatar that's quite a worry. *shok*

 

[steve_1979]

The thing with vinyl is that there is far more variation in the sound quality than with digital.

The Massive attack album sounds good and isn't that far off being the same as the digital version where the Rolling Stones album is totally different and nowhere near as good so it's clear that this difference must be due to the mastering of the album rather than a fault with Technics. With the right record it already sounds good even though it's not ideally setup yet.

turntable location and support are vitally important for best sound quality.

This is less than ideal TBH. It's sitting on a sturdy nailed and glued wooden table covered in wicker which is fine but it's rignt next to the left speaker and even worse the floorboard underneath it runs directly to the subwoofer. That said if I mute the subwoofer on and off while the music is playing it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Due to the room layout it's stuck the way it is for now though as there's nowhere else to put it. When I move house in the not too distant future I'll look into getting a proper wall shelf for it fitted.

The worst sounding Technics that I've heard was with the stock arm and a moving magnet cartridge. It sounded as if the signal was being passed through a huge wodge of cotton wool. The best sounding Technics 1200 I've heard was one with an OL modded Rega arm and an Ortofon Rondo Bronze moving coil cartridge through the phono amp section of a Quad 99 pre amp.

There's no way I'm going to start throwing loads of money at it on upgrades. A new cartridge and phono amp at some point possibly but that's all. I'm happy with it as it is already.

 

[Al ears]

Give it to him boys. *dirol*

Best offer I've had today

Considering your avatar that's quite a worry. *shok*

Calm down dear, it's only a commercial.

 

[lindsayt]

The Massive attack album sounds good and isn't that far off being the same as the digital version where the Rolling Stones album is totally different and nowhere near as good so it's clear that this difference must be due to the mastering of the album rather than a fault with Technics. With the right record it already sounds good even though it's not ideally setup yet.

Surely the sound quality you're hearing is a combination of the mastering quality and the sound quality of your vinyl source versus the mastering quality of the CD and the sound quality of the your digital source?

With a better vinyl source you might find that the Massive Attack sounds much better on vinyl than CD with the Rolling Stones sounding a bit better.

This is less than ideal TBH. It's sitting on a sturdy nailed and glued wooden table covered in wicker which is fine but it's rignt next to the left speaker and even worse the floorboard underneath it runs directly to the subwoofer. That said if I mute the subwoofer on and off while the music is playing it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Due to the room layout it's stuck the way it is for now though as there's nowhere else to put it. When I move house in the not too distant future I'll look into getting a proper wall shelf for it fitted.

A Sound Organisation Turntable Table might be the best £20 to £50 upgrade you've ever done to your system.

You can always sell it on for about the price you paid if it doesn't do the business for you.

There's no way I'm going to start throwing loads of money at it on upgrades. A new cartridge and phono amp at some point possibly but that's all. I'm happy with it as it is already.

Moving the TT well away from your speakers and sub will cost you next to nothing. Like £10 for longer cables.

As already mentioned; better TT support will cost you £20 to £50.

A better tonearm than the standard one will cost £200 upwards.

A Denon DL 110 MC cartridge will cost you £160, brand new.

Amplifiers with a decent phono section start from about £150.

So yes, that would be an investment of £550 or more to transform your Techie into something that would sound better than CD for a decent proportion of your albums. It's totally understandable if you don't want to spend that sort of money. Especially bearing in mind that the cartridge is a consumable item.

 

[Vladimir]

Give it to him boys. *dirol*

Best offer I've had today

Considering your avatar that's quite a worry. *shok*

My thoughts as well. Blondes look best in black or fire red dresses, not that silver blingy thingy.

 

[tonky]

Interesting post this - thanks. If you don't mind me asking - what is your current hi-fi setup?

tonky

 

[spiny norman]

My thoughts as well. Blondes look best in black or fire red dresses, not that silver blingy thingy.

You know it's not a real dress, don't you?

 

[tonky]

Much obliged - tonky

 

[steve_1979]