New turntable for a complete noob

[steve_1979]

Interesting post this - thanks. If you don't mind me asking - what is your current hi-fi setup?

tonky

PC > Yamaha DSP-E800 > AVI DM10 > AVI subwoofer

The Yamaha DSP-800 is only used as a DAC and pre-amp as the speakers already have their own built in amplifiers. It acts as a convienient interface for subwoofer adjustment and has a dynamic range compressor which I switch on when watching movies.

 

[Vladimir]

My thoughts as well. Blondes look best in black or fire red dresses, not that silver blingy thingy.

You know it's not a real dress, don't you?

I don't. What is it then?

 

[Vladimir]

The Soundfi Evo looks particularly interesting for big $$$.

That sad looking Frankensteible breaks my heart.

 

[Al ears]

The Soundfi Evo looks particularly interesting for big $$$.

That sad looking Frankensteible breaks my heart.

Great arm and cartridge on it though! ;-)

 

[Vladimir]

The Soundfi Evo looks particularly interesting for big $$$.

That sad looking Frankensteible breaks my heart.

Great arm and cartridge on it though! ;-)

I've done worse to CDPs so who am I to judge.

But why not some curvy Jelco 750, why that ugly pipe from Rega?

 

[steve_1979]

That sad looking Frankensteible breaks my heart.

It is fugly. *sad*

But why not some curvy Jelco 750, why that ugly pipe from Rega?

That curvy Jelco certainly looks more fitting for the Technics.

 

[steve_1979]

Surely the sound quality you're hearing is a combination of the mastering quality and the sound quality of your vinyl source versus the mastering quality of the CD and the sound quality of the your digital source?

With a better vinyl source you might find that the Massive Attack sounds much better on vinyl than CD with the Rolling Stones sounding a bit better.

You have a good point here. While I think the Rolling Stone LP is a lost cause due the the poor mastering that issue isn't going to apply to all albums.

I'm just listening to the Foo Fighters Sonic Highways now and did a quick A/B switching comparison with the digital version while they were both playing at the same time and I think that the vinyl version is better. I'm cringing as I write these words but the LP is more organic and less sterile sounding. *blush*

Maybe I should get an ADC to make a digital recording of the vinyl version to replace the CD rip that I have on my PC and MP3 player? Hmmm....

 

[steve_1979]

The Massive attack album sounds good and isn't that far off being the same as the digital version where the Rolling Stones album is totally different and nowhere near as good so it's clear that this difference must be due to the mastering of the album rather than a fault with Technics. With the right record it already sounds good even though it's not ideally setup yet.

Surely the sound quality you're hearing is a combination of the mastering quality and the sound quality of your vinyl source versus the mastering quality of the CD and the sound quality of the your digital source?

With a better vinyl source you might find that the Massive Attack sounds much better on vinyl than CD with the Rolling Stones sounding a bit better.

This is less than ideal TBH. It's sitting on a sturdy nailed and glued wooden table covered in wicker which is fine but it's rignt next to the left speaker and even worse the floorboard underneath it runs directly to the subwoofer. That said if I mute the subwoofer on and off while the music is playing it doesn't seem to make any difference.

Due to the room layout it's stuck the way it is for now though as there's nowhere else to put it. When I move house in the not too distant future I'll look into getting a proper wall shelf for it fitted.

A Sound Organisation Turntable Table might be the best £20 to £50 upgrade you've ever done to your system.

You can always sell it on for about the price you paid if it doesn't do the business for you.

There's no way I'm going to start throwing loads of money at it on upgrades. A new cartridge and phono amp at some point possibly but that's all. I'm happy with it as it is already.

Moving the TT well away from your speakers and sub will cost you next to nothing. Like £10 for longer cables.

As already mentioned; better TT support will cost you £20 to £50.

A better tonearm than the standard one will cost £200 upwards.

A Denon DL 110 MC cartridge will cost you £160, brand new.

Amplifiers with a decent phono section start from about £150.

So yes, that would be an investment of £550 or more to transform your Techie into something that would sound better than CD for a decent proportion of your albums. It's totally understandable if you don't want to spend that sort of money. Especially bearing in mind that the cartridge is a consumable item.

I get what you're saying and I dare say the Techie can be improved for a substantial amount of money. The Soundfi Evo looks particularly interesting for big $$$.

But this is kinda missing the point for me. I'm not chasing rainbows as I've already found the pot of gold with a PC digital source, a cheap old Yamaha pre-amp and AVI active speakers. If I want the best sound quality I just play a digital file from my PC into my current system. I've listened to quite a few passive hifi systems and active monitors, sometimes costing inexcess of £10k, and to my ears I already own the most realistic, natural and enjoyable system that I've ever heard anywhere at any price.

The system I already have was chosen simply as a tool to play music and nothing more. The Technics on the other hand has another purpose altogether. It's a piece of hifi equipment just for the fun of it. Something to fiddle with and look at. A bit of silly fun just for the sake of the hobby aspect. I also want to keep it standard.

Originally I was only going to spend about £300 on a Project deck and it's already gone over double that amount with the Technics when you include the cost of a phono-amp, a cartridge, a record cleaning brush, a needle cleaning gadget, a setup record, a spirit level, a record storage case, new slipmats and a new multi-socket extension lead to plug it into. It's worth it though as I've lusted for a 1210 Mk2 for over 20 years.

For now I just want to concentrate on getting the most out of what I have. A new cartridge, phono-amp and table isn't out of the question in the future though but as I'm already happy with it I'm not even really that bothered about those either.

 

[matt49]

I'm just listening to the Foo Fighters Sonic Highways now and did a quick A/B switching comparison with the digital version while they were both playing at the same time and I think that the vinyl version is better. I'm cringing as I write these words but the LP is more organic and less sterile sounding. *blush*

Maybe I should get an ADC to make a digital recording of the vinyl version to replace the CD rip that I have on my PC and MP3 player? Hmmm....

Maybe better dynamic range.

 

[matt49]

Partly but the DR only tells half of the story. The LP also has a different tonal character and what seems like someother differences in the mix/mastering. For example the brass instrumants in the digital version off the track 'In the Clear' are more in your face where on the LP it's more subtle sounding.

The issue with the brass may simply be that the digital version's more accurate. Brass should sound in your face, if it's been well recorded. It should rasp. Whether you like that is, of course, another matter entirely.

 

[Vladimir]

Vinyl has compression, but it compliments the music. It gives it full, richer and more present sound. It's not done to excess like with pop/rock CDs.

 

[Vladimir]

Don't get sucked in the 'vinyl vs. CD' thing. Leave that for keyboard warfare on dull Sundays.

 

[steve_1979]

Don't get sucked in the 'vinyl vs. CD' thing. Leave that for keyboard warfare on dull Sundays.

I'll save it for tomorrow then.

From a technical point of view digital is far superior but that's irrelevant when it comes to having two versions of the same album with different mastering which makes a much bigger difference than the storage/playback medium used.

As has been said by others before, many modern albums are released over compressed on the digital versions where the vinyl has better DR. It's interesting to hear it first hand though.

 

[steve_1979]

Got to admit I'm really enjoying this black spinny disc lark more and more.

 

[Freddy58]

The Soundfi Evo looks particularly interesting for big $$$.

That sad looking Frankensteible breaks my heart.

Great arm and cartridge on it though! ;-)

I've done worse to CDPs so who am I to judge.

But why not some curvy Jelco 750, why that ugly pipe from Rega?

Rega?

 

[steve_1979]

I'm just listening to the Foo Fighters Sonic Highways now and did a quick A/B switching comparison with the digital version while they were both playing at the same time and I think that the vinyl version is better. I'm cringing as I write these words but the LP is more organic and less sterile sounding. *blush*

Maybe I should get an ADC to make a digital recording of the vinyl version to replace the CD rip that I have on my PC and MP3 player? Hmmm....

Maybe better dynamic range.

Partly but the DR only tells half of the story. The LP also has a different tonal character and what seems like some other differences in the mix/mastering. For example the brass instruments in the digital version on the track 'In the Clear' are more in your face where on the LP it's more subtle sounding.

 

[steve_1979]

Partly but the DR only tells half of the story. The LP also has a different tonal character and what seems like someother differences in the mix/mastering. For example the brass instrumants in the digital version off the track 'In the Clear' are more in your face where on the LP it's more subtle sounding.

The issue with the brass may simply be that the digital version's more accurate. Brass should sound in your face, if it's been well recorded. It should rasp. Whether you like that is, of course, another matter entirely.

I think you're right that the brass on the digital version sounds more real but the softer and less real LP version is more preferable in this case (IMO of course). The digital and LP versions while slightly different are both good and it's a close call over which one I prefer most. The digital version is still 'cleaner' sounding - in a good way.

I've just put on the Foo Fighters Greatest Hits album which I haven't listened to on LP yet. Strangely the LP sounds 'cleaner' than the digital version with this album. Again I prefer the LP version with this Foo Fighters album too.

 

[Vladimir]

Rega?

SME, pardon.

 

[Freddy58]

Rega?

SME, pardon.

You think SME's are ugly? *acute*

 

[Vladimir]

Don't get sucked in the 'vinyl vs. CD' thing. Leave that for keyboard warfare on dull Sundays.

I'll save it for tomorrow then.

No can do. Tomorrow we argue if round or pentagonal vinyl LP is better. We must sort that pertinent dilema once and for all. It's no secret that I'm pro penta 78s.

 

[Vladimir]

You think SME's are ugly? *acute*

Well, yeah.

 

[steve_1979]

No can do. Tomorrow we argue if round or pentagonal vinyl LP is better. We must sort that pertinent dilema once and for all. It's no secret that I'm pro penta 78s.

 

[Al ears]

That sad looking Frankensteible breaks my heart.

It is fugly. *sad*

But why not some curvy Jelco 750, why that ugly pipe from Rega?

That curvy Jelco certainly looks more fitting for the Technics.

That's only because the original Technics arm was S- shaped. What's wrong with fitting a better straight tonearm? Looks aren't everything at the end of the day.

 

[Al ears]

Rega?

SME, pardon.

You think SME's are ugly? *acute*

Well they do make s-shaped ones as well. I prefer the straight ones but couldn't afford a Graham Phantom. Apologies to any readers this may offend.

 

[steve_1979]

I've just spent the last hour and a half reading and setting it up properly using the Hi-Fi News Test LP and it's now sounding a fair bit better than before.

It was very educational process and I've learned a lot about how a record player works, how to set it up and why it works best when setup a particular way. The changes made were:

1. Getting it perfectly level using a spirit level and adding a few 2p coins under the table legs.
2. Swapping the left/right phono cables around (yep, I was daft enough to plug one of the pairs in the wrong way round

)
3. Increasing the tracking force from 1.2 to 1.4g
4. Increasing the anti-skate from 0.5 to 1.

I've also discovered that the arms resonant frequency is 9Hz (which is apparently at the lower end of what's acceptable). Something that I noticed during this test while closely watching the cartridge from the front while it was playing is that the plastic body that holds the stylus isn't quite sitting square in the cartridge body. I wonder if there was more damage during transit than I thought and a whole new cartridge was required rather than just a new stylus? The stereo image is very slightly off centre which may or may not be a symptom of this?