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New Star Wars Movie is Poor - spoilers thread! Be aware of the dog. Woof.

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gel

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strapped for cash said:
bigboss said:
Only skimmed through the thread as it contains spoilers.

Reviews don't agree with gel, 95% on Rotten Tomatoes which is a compilation of 275 reviews:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_vii_the_force_awakens/

That's one of the best scoring I've seen in a while.
Initial critical responses to Star Wars movies are odd phenomena, probably because of unparalleled hype and fervour. It can take months, even years, before some kind of equilibrium is achieved. Even then the initial crop of reviews creates some imbalance.

Each of the prequels garnered four and five star reviews from multiple established critics, who later revised their scores and opinions.

None of this means The Force Awakens is a bad film. It certainly isn't the abomination Gel's remarks suggest. But the current RT score (can a film's quality be measured in percentage terms?) points to a hype-induced, temporary loss of critical faculties, in my view. More balanced appraisals of The Force Awakens will emerge over time.

All that said, the film's fine. It's fun. Watch it. Just don't anticipate the second coming.
But can you get why I don't like it? Also the killing of Han Solo - no battle nothing, just right through him. Don't get me started on Leia her acting was shocking.
 

strapped for cash

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gel said:
But can you get why I don't like it? Also the killing of Han Solo - no battle nothing, just right through him. Don't get me started on Leia her acting was shocking.
Sure, you're as entitled to your opinion as anyone else.

I had no problem with Han dying at his son's hands without a fight. In fact I think a battle would have been inappropriate, given what Han was trying to accomplish.

Carrie Fisher phoned her performance in, but I don't think she gives a sh*t at this point. I'm sure she had more fun filming Catastrophe. Her screen time in The Force Awakens probably amounts to less than three minutes. The only major character we saw less of was Luke.

I'm not gushing over the film at all, but it's far from the worst Star Wars film I've seen, and better than most recent blockbusters.

You really have to revisit the prequels to recall just how terrible they are -- flying robots, toe-curling dialogue, atrocious performances from central characters (LLoyd, Portman, Christensen). McDiarmid was the prequels' only saving grace, though no single actor can carry three ensemble films. Jar Jar receives much of the blame, but the prequels were awful for a multitude of reasons.
 

The_Lhc

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strapped for cash said:
gel said:
Check out this R2DT has low power and will not awake, suddenly at the end of the movie R2 regains his powers.  That's so poor. ?
I thought R2D2 could only be rebooted upon return of the missing map section.
You're both stone bloody deaf then. Gel if you're going to bother going to the cinema open your cloth ears and listen. Threepio did not say r2 was running low on power, he said he'd put himself into a low power mode when Luke disappeared. In effect he was grieving or sulking. It was his choice, hence being able to wake up whenever he wished. There was no mention of him needing the missing part of the map in order to reboot (how does that even make any sense?), only that he may contain the rest of the map, presumably from the time he was previously plugged into the empire's computer system as it was stated at an earlier point that the rest of the map was in the old empire's databases.
 

gel

Moderator
The_Lhc said:
strapped for cash said:
gel said:
Check out this R2DT has low power and will not awake, suddenly at the end of the movie R2 regains his powers. That's so poor.
I thought R2D2 could only be rebooted upon return of the missing map section.
You're both stone bloody deaf then. Gel if you're going to bother going to the cinema open your cloth ears and listen. Threepio did not say r2 was running low on power, he said he'd put himself into a low power mode when Luke disappeared. In effect he was grieving or sulking. It was his choice, hence being able to wake up whenever he wished. There was no mention of him needing the missing part of the map in order to reboot (how does that even make any sense?), only that he may contain the rest of the map, presumably from the time he was previously plugged into the empire's computer system as it was stated at an earlier point that the rest of the map was in the old empire's databases.
Low power mode. *smile*. Yeah I think you're right. That does sound bad though?
 

The_Lhc

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gel said:
strapped for cash said:
gel said:
What about Ren being able to fly the Millenium Falcon then?  It's just ********!
Do you mean Rey??

If so, this again isn't too great a stretch, since Rey's almost certainly a Skywalker, and both Luke and Anakin were accomplished pilots before starting their Jedi training. ?

I was more concerned that Rey and Finn stumbled upon the Falcon, which allowed Rey to meet her father or uncle, who in turn enabled Rey and Finn to link up with the Resistance.?

The original Star Wars film relied on similarly absurd coincidences. It's implausible that R2D2 would crash on Luke's home planet, before being sold to Luke's uncle, setting the whole saga in motion.

Still, these character unions and plot devices were lazy and clumsy. I'm certain I could have found a more convincing way to move the narrative forward, given a little time to think about it.

My other complaint is that I would have liked to spend more time with the characters, since the film rushed from action sequence to action sequence, presumably through fear of audience boredom if more than ten minutes passed without laser fire. I liked Ridley's character (and her performance was solid; not that Star Wars is the greatest test of one's acting chops). The potential for genuine pathos was squandered here, while the film's emotional beats were too heavily derived from familiarity with established characters. I'm hoping Disney, Johnson, and Kasdan (if he's still involved) will slow things down next time and pay greater attention to character development.

Oh, and the sequence after the Falcon was captured, when the cast was chased by a CGI monster, should have been ditched completely.
Yep, that's the one, I have already forgotten their names, says much about the movie.  Look at Anakin Skywalker and all the training he had and Luke, I am not buying into it.  The humour was poor too. Lucas should've done this movie.  
Gel, don't be stupid, Lucas is the worst director in the world, he came up with a good story and that's it. There's a reason Empire Strikes Back is the best film of the lot, it's the one Lucas handed over the directorial reins on (and it was written by kasdan as well), all the prequels were directed by Lucas and they are awful. The reason the performances in the prequels were so poor is because Lucas wouldn't allow the actors to actually act, he told them how to say every line and wouldn't wrap the scene until they'd delivered each line correctly. Ewan McGregor said it was a soul destroying experience.
 

The_Lhc

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gel said:
What about Ren being able to fly the Millenium Falcon then?  It's just ********!
Why wouldn't she be able to? Basic control mechanisms are going to be the same (all planes use the same method of control you know, no reason starships should be any different), the start-up routine will be the trickiest part if she hasn't seen a ship of that design before but if she's been crawling through wrecks her whole life she's probably spent many hours sitting in similar cockpits, it's not that big a leap.
 
B

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW

Guest
The_Lhc said:
Lucas is the worst director in the world, he came up with a good story and that's it.
He stole the basic premise of the story too, so even that wasn't his idea.
 

The_Lhc

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gel said:
The_Lhc said:
strapped for cash said:
gel said:
Check out this R2DT has low power and will not awake, suddenly at the end of the movie R2 regains his powers.  That's so poor. ?
I thought R2D2 could only be rebooted upon return of the missing map section.
You're both stone bloody deaf then. Gel if you're going to bother going to the cinema open your cloth ears and listen. Threepio did not say r2 was running low on power, he said he'd put himself into a low power mode when Luke disappeared. In effect he was grieving or sulking. It was his choice, hence being able to wake up whenever he wished. There was no mention of him needing the missing part of the map in order to reboot (how does that even make any sense?), only that he may contain the rest of the map, presumably from the time he was previously plugged into the empire's computer system as it was stated at an earlier point that the rest of the map was in the old empire's databases.
Low power mode.  *smile*. Yeah I think you're right.  That does sound bad though?
Does it? Why? My TV has a low power mode, why wouldn't a droid have one?
 

The_Lhc

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BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
The_Lhc said:
Lucas is the worst director in the world, he came up with a good story and that's it.?
He stole the basic premise of the story too, so even that wasn't his idea.
He was inspired by the Hidden Fortress certainly but I think you'll struggle to find any author in the last hundred years that's had a truly unique idea, there just aren't really any left.
 
B

BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW

Guest
The_Lhc said:
BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
The_Lhc said:
Lucas is the worst director in the world, he came up with a good story and that's it.
He stole the basic premise of the story too, so even that wasn't his idea.
He was inspired by the Hidden Fortress certainly but I think you'll struggle to find any author in the last hundred years that's had a truly unique idea, there just aren't really any left.
A bit more than inspired. Have you watched 'The Hidden Fortress'?

Anyway, I was just pointing out that he didn't really come up with a good story, he just changed the setting and a few details of another one.
 

Alantiggger

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It was my birthday there on the 17th and my wife got the family tickets for us all to go....... it was the 3D version and my goodness it was Fabulous !

If you like Star Wars then you will love this movie imo.

The sound was so crisp sounding too.

Each to their own though, if gel doesn't like it, fair enough, we all loved it and everyone all came out loving what they had just watched from all that I saw.
 

The_Lhc

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gel said:
What happened to Jedi training?  These new kids just pick up light sabers and know how to work them?  Shouldn't be called episode 7 more like new Star Wars with no training.  
Oh come off it gel, you don't need Jedi training in order to find an on button! And Finn didn't exactly cover himself in glory, Ren (an apprentice himself as mentioned) defeated him fairly easily.

Rey's a different matter, Ren himself stated she was far more powerful than he is.
 

strapped for cash

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The_Lhc said:
You're both stone bloody deaf then. Gel if you're going to bother going to the cinema open your cloth ears and listen. Threepio did not say r2 was running low on power, he said he'd put himself into a low power mode when Luke disappeared. In effect he was grieving or sulking. It was his choice, hence being able to wake up whenever he wished. There was no mention of him needing the missing part of the map in order to reboot (how does that even make any sense?), only that he may contain the rest of the map, presumably from the time he was previously plugged into the empire's computer system as it was stated at an earlier point that the rest of the map was in the old empire's databases.
Oi, steady with the unpleasantries!

My observation was an extrapolation on R2 rebooting once the other part of the map was returned.

I speculated that Luke programmed R2 to shut down and reawaken at this moment, to ensure that details of Luke's location didn't fall into the wrong hands. Resistance members could have betrayed Luke, so it seems logical that even Threepio wouldn't know why Artoo had shut down.

Why else would the map be split into two sections, each one useless without the other?

This made sense to me when I wrote the comment (and still does).
 

The_Lhc

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Alantiggger said:
It was my birthday there on the 17th and my wife got the family tickets for us all to go....... it was the 3D version and my goodness it was Fabulous !

If you like Star Wars then you will love this movie imo.

The sound was so crisp sounding too.

Each to their own though, if gel doesn't like it, fair enough, we all loved it and everyone all came out loving what they had just watched from all that I saw.
I'm going to see it again in 2d, the cinema I saw it in wasn't the greatest 3d experience, when the image was static it was fine (the star destroyer coming out of the screen had me chuckling!) but as soon as things started moving quickly it was almost impossible to see what was happening. It was dark as well, the opening scene was so dark I couldn't tell what was happening.

I enjoyed it, I won't lie but I've been trying to keep my expentations low, the last time I let hype carry me away was guardians of the galaxy and it couldn't live up to it (to be fair I was expecting so much no film could have done), I enjoyed guardians but it didn't blow me away, the same was true of this. I like JJ Abrams, he's a decent director but he's not the second coming, I find his films good but rarely great and never outstanding, like Star Trek, I'm a massive Star Trek fan and I liked his take on it but I don't really go back to it , whereas I watch the Motion Picture over and over again.

The Force Awakens was the same, I enjoyed it, I will see it again but it didn't blow my head off. Perhaps with a brighter 2d picture that might improve, I am worried that Harrison Ford carried the film for the most part, which obviously will be an issue for the following films. Daisy Ridley's initial scenes with BB8 were painfully flat but she seemed to grow into the role. I did like John Botega (Finn), he was good in Attack the Block and he did very well here, very watchable screen presence.

It may not have helped that I was having to explain stuff to the other half, she's never seen any of the other films, although she assured me she knew the basic story. I think when she turned to me during the final scene and whispered "who's that?" showed that wasn't entirely the case!
 

strapped for cash

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The_Lhc said:
BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW said:
The_Lhc said:
Lucas is the worst director in the world, he came up with a good story and that's it.
He stole the basic premise of the story too, so even that wasn't his idea.
He was inspired by the Hidden Fortress certainly but I think you'll struggle to find any author in the last hundred years that's had a truly unique idea, there just aren't really any left.
Star Wars is a melting pot of influences.

The Hidden Fortress is one. Jospeh Campbell's monomyth is another. Then there are cliffhanger serials, countless science fiction and superhero texts, elements of Greek and Arthurian mythology, and so on... (Cambell's monomyth technically encompasses all of the above, and more).

It's a classic "open text," since there are purposefully diverse opportunities for audience investment ("if you don't like this story, I have other ones..."). This helps account for Star Wars' popularity.

Cult texts are typically open in the same way; and Star Wars is often regarded as a "cult blockbuster" (in some ways an oxymoron, but the films attract a devoted fanbase, in the same way as cult objects).

Cult is in many ways the new mainstream and Star Wars played a pivotal role in this transition, which has perhaps reached its culmination in the glut of Marvel superhero films and the kind of geek-chic celebrated in The Big Bang Theory.
 

The_Lhc

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strapped for cash said:
The_Lhc said:
You're both stone bloody deaf then. Gel if you're going to bother going to the cinema open your cloth ears and listen. Threepio did not say r2 was running low on power, he said he'd put himself into a low power mode when Luke disappeared. In effect he was grieving or sulking. It was his choice, hence being able to wake up whenever he wished. There was no mention of him needing the missing part of the map in order to reboot (how does that even make any sense?), only that he may contain the rest of the map, presumably from the time he was previously plugged into the empire's computer system as it was stated at an earlier point that the rest of the map was in the old empire's databases.
Oi, steady with the unpleasantries!

My observation was an extrapolation on R2 rebooting once the other part of the map was returned.

I speculated that Luke programmed R2 to shut down and reawaken at this moment, to ensure that details of Luke's location didn't fall into the wrong hands. Resistance members could have betrayed Luke, so it seems logical that even Threepio wouldn't know why Artoo had shut down.

Why else would the map be split into two sections, each one useless without the other?

This made sense to me when I wrote the comment (and still does).
Fair point, I apologize, read too many of gel's comments in one sitting.

That's a reasonable interpretation, to be honest I have a few issues with the whole map idea, why would Luke leave a map behind him when he didn't want to be found? I don't see why he would make a map in the first place. It was stated at the start that the resistance "found" the map with an old acquaintance (Max von Sydow) but that doesn't explain why all their maps of the galaxy would have big holes in them. I guess I could buy the idea that Luke somehow edited the resistance's map but you'd have that would simply narrow down the area he was likely to be found in, not make it harder. That whole part really didn't work for me.
 

strapped for cash

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The_Lhc said:
Fair point, I apologize
No worries.

The_Lhc said:
why would Luke leave a map behind him when he didn't want to be found? I don't see why he would make a map in the first place. It was stated at the start that the resistance "found" the map with an old acquaintance (Max von Sydow) but that doesn't explain why all their maps of the galaxy would have big holes in them.
Luke's disappearance and the map revealing his location operate as a MacGuffin (remember the first sentence of the opening crawl).

In other words, there was no reason, beyond kicking the story off and providing enough closure for a single episode (this plot strand was resolved, whle others were left open to continuation).
 

The_Lhc

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Well yes, obviously it's a plot device but it should have some internal logic to it. It just doesn't make any sense.
 

strapped for cash

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The_Lhc said:
Well yes, obviously it's a plot device but it should have some internal logic to it. It just doesn't make any sense.
That's kind of the point with a MacGuffin.

It's a purposefully empty term, coined to denote something devoid of meaning and logic beyond its capacity to drive a narrative.

Cinema is littered with MacGuffins. Take it up with Hitchcock. *smile*
 

The_Lhc

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strapped for cash said:
The_Lhc said:
Well yes, obviously it's a plot device but it should have some internal logic to it. It just doesn't make any sense.
That's kind of the point with a MacGuffin.

It's a purposefully empty term, coined to denote something devoid of meaning and logic beyond its capacity to drive a narrative.

Cinema is littered with MacGuffins. Take it up with Hitchcock. *smile*  
That implies it was deliberately conceived as nonsense, I find that a little hard to believe.
 

gel

Moderator
Alantiggger said:
It was my birthday there on the 17th and my wife got the family tickets for us all to go....... it was the 3D version and my goodness it was Fabulous !

If you like Star Wars then you will love this movie imo.

The sound was so crisp sounding too.

Each to their own though, if gel doesn't like it, fair enough, we all loved it and everyone all came out loving what they had just watched from all that I saw.
*good*
 

gel

Moderator
The_Lhc said:
gel said:
The_Lhc said:
strapped for cash said:
gel said:
Check out this R2DT has low power and will not awake, suddenly at the end of the movie R2 regains his powers. That's so poor.
I thought R2D2 could only be rebooted upon return of the missing map section.
You're both stone bloody deaf then. Gel if you're going to bother going to the cinema open your cloth ears and listen. Threepio did not say r2 was running low on power, he said he'd put himself into a low power mode when Luke disappeared. In effect he was grieving or sulking. It was his choice, hence being able to wake up whenever he wished. There was no mention of him needing the missing part of the map in order to reboot (how does that even make any sense?), only that he may contain the rest of the map, presumably from the time he was previously plugged into the empire's computer system as it was stated at an earlier point that the rest of the map was in the old empire's databases.
Low power mode. *smile*. Yeah I think you're right. That does sound bad though?
Does it? Why? My TV has a low power mode, why wouldn't a droid have one?
Fair point. What power mode do you use your Pioneer in? Just curious from my own experience.
 

gel

Moderator
The_Lhc said:
gel said:
What happened to Jedi training? These new kids just pick up light sabers and know how to work them? Shouldn't be called episode 7 more like new Star Wars with no training.
Oh come off it gel, you don't need Jedi training in order to find an on button! And Finn didn't exactly cover himself in glory, Ren (an apprentice himself as mentioned) defeated him fairly easily.

Rey's a different matter, Ren himself stated she was far more powerful than he is.
Nope it doesn't make sense. The Jedi were trained from young by Yoda.
 

gel

Moderator
The_Lhc said:
Alantiggger said:
It was my birthday there on the 17th and my wife got the family tickets for us all to go....... it was the 3D version and my goodness it was Fabulous !

If you like Star Wars then you will love this movie imo.

The sound was so crisp sounding too.

Each to their own though, if gel doesn't like it, fair enough, we all loved it and everyone all came out loving what they had just watched from all that I saw.
I'm going to see it again in 2d, the cinema I saw it in wasn't the greatest 3d experience, when the image was static it was fine (the star destroyer coming out of the screen had me chuckling!) but as soon as things started moving quickly it was almost impossible to see what was happening. It was dark as well, the opening scene was so dark I couldn't tell what was happening.

I enjoyed it, I won't lie but I've been trying to keep my expentations low, the last time I let hype carry me away was guardians of the galaxy and it couldn't live up to it (to be fair I was expecting so much no film could have done), I enjoyed guardians but it didn't blow me away, the same was true of this. I like JJ Abrams, he's a decent director but he's not the second coming, I find his films good but rarely great and never outstanding, like Star Trek, I'm a massive Star Trek fan and I liked his take on it but I don't really go back to it , whereas I watch the Motion Picture over and over again.

The Force Awakens was the same, I enjoyed it, I will see it again but it didn't blow my head off. Perhaps with a brighter 2d picture that might improve, I am worried that Harrison Ford carried the film for the most part, which obviously will be an issue for the following films. Daisy Ridley's initial scenes with BB8 were painfully flat but she seemed to grow into the role. I did like John Botega (Finn), he was good in Attack the Block and he did very well here, very watchable screen presence.

It may not have helped that I was having to explain stuff to the other half, she's never seen any of the other films, although she assured me she knew the basic story. I think when she turned to me during the final scene and whispered "who's that?" showed that wasn't entirely the case!
Han Solo was the best part and the only part that kept me interested until they killed him off.
 

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