WARNING !! BLU-RAY - THE NEW BETAMAX?

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andy Clough"]
[quote user="david1997"]

Its going to be a dual format future, my friends!!

[/quote]

Indeed, it may well be. Although as I once bought a Betamax instead of a VHS VCR (and also invested in Laserdisc), I may not be the best person to predict the future!

[/quote]

Especially with that haircut!! Only joking.

As I have mentioned before.... in the end it will come down to a dual format drive i.e. one drive that can read both discs, similar to the now saturated market of DVD-R/RW/+R/RW combo drives. It's not as if it's like VHS and DVD in one drive is it.

There is NO format war.... only harmony.

 

[Anonymous]

I certainly wouldn't dispute the fact that more standalone HD players have been sold than BD players, particularly in the US. Quite clearly the 'give them away for $98' has gained a significant number of support. However, these are effectively end of line early models (1080i only). The people that have purchased these players are not likely to be amassing large libraries of HD discs. There will come a time when the $98 machines have run out of stocks and that's where Toshiba will have hit a sticky wicket, if they haven't already?

It's certainly true that technology is cheaper in the US than the UK/Europe, but I do wonder how much Toshiba are gambling / losing on each player sold. That situation is not sustainable. They are certanly not going to recoup their research and development costs via selling lots of $98 players to people who may only buy a handful of HD discs. I am sure the major studios are well aware of this too. When BD outsells HD by 3:1 or 4:1 with a smaller base of standalone players, then that tells you something, doesn't it? Perhaps the millions who own PS3 also buy BDs? It doesn't really matter either way, BD discs outsell HD discs. End of!

Whilst there is confusion, the market is going to be small. The studios will not want to prolong this war. They must realise that only when there is one format, then the market will grow beyond the enthusiast / niche market it's currently in.

BD players have now reached the sub £300 mark in the UK. When you consider that a good DVD player is maybe £150-200 then £300 for what is new technology (only really about a year old) is quite a bargain!

Maybe HD players are better specified? I'm not so sure. Why would Toshiba produce the EP10, EP30 and EP35 if there wasn't that much difference in spec? (By the way, I think they are all excellent players)!

BD has had a lot of criticism about the lack of final profile, but it is a developing technology, much the same as DVD was! People forget that! The first DVD players were very basic (and their hi-fi audio performance was generally poor and many couldn't play all discs - no firmware updates then)! Then we had progressive scan and component inputs! Then HDMI came along, and then upscaling to 720p/1080i. Now we have upscaling to 1080p! We still have ranges of DVD players without these facilities or lack the ability to play DVD-Audio! Not to mention SACD, DivX, USB, MP3 and photos! You could say that DVD is still a developing technology!?

Garethwd - I fully respect your view, but I think for the future sustainability of HiDef media, only one format could possibly move into the mass market.

I would hope that no one would get hurt or lose money and EVERY title gets released in both BD and HD, but the studios are not that way inclined. Warner Brothers have stated that they wish to consider their future release policy. They have already stated their full support for BD. Given that they sell significantly more BDs than HDs, then they would be pretty stupid to ditch BD. Some outspoken Hollywood directors have also expressed preference for BD as the long term HiDef media.

Given that only Toshiba supports HD, it would take an unprecidented situation for them to win against all the other major CE manufacturers. Even powerful Sony couldn't win, when they had a better product (Betamax) versus VHS. No one should under-estimate the power of the major CE companies? Many of the consumer electronics companies have close ties with the Hollywood studios. Sony appear to have more ties than most!

One thing does puzzle me though! Universal Pictures has always supported HD. Universal Music (part of the same empire) exclusively supports BD!

The final point is regards DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW and DVD-RAM. They were variations of the same technology. Blu-ray Disc (BD) and HD DVD (HD) have very little in common. If people are expecting a 'universal' or 'play all' player to play everything, then to keep the price down, there will be sacrifices somewhere along the line. If Samsung and LG are hoping to have players for under £500, there are likely to be some significant issues? Remember the LG didn't play CDs. That's unforgivable! Surely the idea to have 'one box' for all, means just that, compatability with CD/DVD/BD/HD/DVD-Audio/SACD/MP3/DivX/etc....

.....Hmmm, just think about all those firmware updates!

 

[Anonymous]

"I certainly wouldn't dispute the fact that more standalone HD players have been sold than BD players, particularly in the US. Quite clearly the 'give them away for $98' has gained a significant number of support. However, these are effectively end of line early models (1080i only). The people that have purchased these players are not likely to be amassing large libraries of HD discs. There will come a time when the $98 machines have run out of stocks and that's where Toshiba will have hit a sticky wicket, if they haven't already?"

Dont forget the ventura HD-DVD player thats selling very well in the states, forgot to mention in previous post. I can see that blue ray has some obvious advantages. but i think cost will play a big part IF any format is the winner and toshiba and ventura have a big advantage here. also i dont think the size is that important

HD dvd disks are cheap to make so stick two in the box one for the film and other for features.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree totally. There were titles in early days of DVD that didn't work on some players, whichever format wins out will deal with these issues (and one will eventually) .

The point is that most consumers don't actually care about a particular player's ability to play all the extra features. Have YOU ever actually played the stupid games on the Harry Potter or Pirates dics? Well, if you're under 12 maybe you have. So all this kvetching about 1.1 doesn't add up to a hill o'beans to the majority of buyers. It's a smokescreen and it'll dissipate.

It's content, software, the MOVIES themselves that'll decide who wins out (as per my privious post). As someone who has both formats now (and am waiting to buy up cheap discs from the loser like the culture vulture I am) it doesn't matter who wins out.

I have, therefore, no axe to grind.

So here's some info to inform the debate. The HD disc sales for the US week ending Dec 9.

1. PIRATES 3 BLU-RAY

2. SUPERBAD BLU-RAY

3. PLANET EARTH HD-DVD

4. SPIDERMAN 3 BLU-RAY

5. TRANSFORMERS HD-DVD

6 DIE HARD 4.0 BLU-RAY

7. PLANET EARTH BLU-RAY

8. PIRATES 2 BLU-RAY

9. RATATOUILLE BLU-RAY

10. 300 BLU-RAY

Thoughts? Well, odd that 300 BD outsells HD-DVD and that Planet Earth is the reverse. Big thing though is that The Simpsons comes in next week and will be Blu Ray only. Point is that Warners are looking at sales BIG TIME! The message to them is Blu Ray, I think.

 

[Anonymous]

Just some more data from the same source. Which is Nielsen, the US industry standard, by the way.

Hi Def Market share (BD vs HD-DVD sales comparison)

Week ending 9 Dec

BD 76%

HD-DVD 24%

Year to Date

BD 65%

HD-DVD 35%

Since Inception

BD 62%

HD-DVD 38%

The numbers don't lie. Blu Ray consistently outsells HD-DVD by 2:1, give or take.

Also some more detailed info on the previous post:

In the Week of 9th December noted above, 300 (Warner Bros) got a sales index of 5.36 on BD and 2.14 on HD-DVD (so it sold around twice as much on Blu-Ray).

 

[TheLastManWithBetamax]

My prediction is that Optical Discs will be obsolete around about the time the Internet/Telephone network is finally upgraded to Optical Cable across the country and downloading a film doesnt take all day anymore.

All formats will be obsolete eventually its just a question of how long it will live, never mind the worries about buying the new betamax or whatever, its the experience that counts!

I am the last man with betamax, and laserdisc and 8 tracks and will be proud to be the last man with blu ray and hd dvd.

Remember the 8 noble Truths of the 8 track mind when you go to the Hi Fi store...

THE 8 NOBLE TRUTHS OF THE 8-TRACK MIND

0) Understanding one's fate leads to greater acceptance.

1) State of the art is in the eye of the beholder.

2) Society's drive is on attaining rather than experiencing.

3) In less than optimum circumstances, creativity becomes all the more important.

4) Progress is too often promises, promises to get you to buy, buy.

5) "New" and "improved" don't necessarily mean the same thing.

6) "Na‹ve" is not a dirty word.

7) In seeking perfection has the obvious been overlooked?

8) Innovation alone will not replace beauty.8