New Amp help! - Hegel h160 vs Rega Elicit-r vs ??

Tronborg

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Hi,

Hope you're all doing alright today. I'm a long time reader, first time poster.

I've read a lot about integrated amps lately, but I have a hard time deciding between the two mentioned in the title and have yet to see people compare them. I cannot audition them at the same time or place. However, I can get them both for roughly the same price.

I will almost certaintly be pairing them with b&w cm6 s2 speakers, in a two channel setup connected to my tv and a record player. Besides vinyl, I will be playing a lot of music from Spotify/AirPlay.

It's important to note that I'm looking for standmount/bookshelf speakers that both sound and look good. Harbeths for instance, I wouldn't buy or audition, because of their looks alone.

With all this in mind; what's your opinion, and what would you change?
 
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.
 
Tronborg said:
Hi,

Hope you're all doing alright today. I'm a long time reader, first time poster.

I've read a lot about integrated amps lately, but I have a hard time deciding between the two mentioned in the title and have yet to see people compare them. I cannot audition them at the same time or place. However, I can get them both for roughly the same price.

I will almost certaintly be pairing them with b&w cm6 s2 speakers, in a two channel setup connected to my tv and a record player. Besides vinyl, I will be playing a lot of music from Spotify/AirPlay.

It's important to note that I'm looking for standmount/bookshelf speakers that both sound and look good. Harbeths for instance, I wouldn't buy or audition, because of their looks alone.

With all this in mind; what's your opinion, and what would you change?

The Hegel would be my choice but bear in mind this will need additional equipment in the way of a phono preamp if you are connecting a turntable which may push your budget much further. Depends whether you value a good internal DAC over a good internal phono stage.
 

Tronborg

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Mark Rose-Smith said:
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.

Thank you both!

Yes, I have been wanting to demo the pmcs actually... But I've had a hard rime finding a pmc dealer in my country. According to Google there is none, and so, I have given up on finding them.

Al Ears, I got about $700-1000 in my budget for a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope. Either way, I'll probably have to get a DAC for the Rega and a phono stage for the Hegel, so it evens out.
 
Tronborg said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.

Thank you both!

Yes, I have been wanting to demo the pmcs actually... But I've had a hard rime finding a pmc dealer in my country. According to Google there is none, and so, I have given up on finding them.

Al Ears, I got about $700-1000 in my budget for a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope. Either way, I'll probably have to get a DAC for the Rega and a phono stage for the Hegel, so it evens out.

In that case it's a difficult shout. Having heard both I would take the Hegel only as long as the DAC is sufficient for your needs. These are developing so quick these days buying something with an integrated one could be a costly exercise. Phono preamps are not going to change much.
 

BigH

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Al ears said:
Tronborg said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.

Thank you both!

Yes, I have been wanting to demo the pmcs actually... But I've had a hard rime finding a pmc dealer in my country. According to Google there is none, and so, I have given up on finding them.

Al Ears, I got about $700-1000 in my budget for a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope. Either way, I'll probably have to get a DAC for the Rega and a phono stage for the Hegel, so it evens out.

In that case it's a difficult shout. Having heard both I would take the Hegel only as long as the DAC is sufficient for your needs. These are developing so quick these days buying something with an integrated one could be a costly exercise. Phono preamps are not going to change much.

Dacs are changing so quickly, really?
 
BigH said:
Al ears said:
Tronborg said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.

Thank you both!

Yes, I have been wanting to demo the pmcs actually... But I've had a hard rime finding a pmc dealer in my country. According to Google there is none, and so, I have given up on finding them.

Al Ears, I got about $700-1000 in my budget for a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope. Either way, I'll probably have to get a DAC for the Rega and a phono stage for the Hegel, so it evens out.

In that case it's a difficult shout. Having heard both I would take the Hegel only as long as the DAC is sufficient for your needs. These are developing so quick these days buying something with an integrated one could be a costly exercise. Phono preamps are not going to change much.

Dacs are changing so quickly, really?
w

Perhaps for you pedants I should have stated 'relatively' quickly.

Yes, the DAC chip itself is changing very rapidly. The basic design of a phono stage hasn't changed for decades but it's not been long that DACs can handle DSD and the higher res formats.. who wants a DAC that , from a little while ago, can only handle up to 24/96.

Personally this is why I have always gone for separates.
 
Unless you are absolutely set on one of the pair you have listed I would suggest another to add to your list. This one will require you to add phono stage and DAC of your choice separately.

This is the Roksan Caspian M2 Integrated.
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
I can't comment on the Hegel as I haven't heard one, but I've heard the Elicit-R with B&W CM series and PMC Fact and it's a stunning amp that really grips and controls speakers.

I would suggest also getting to hear Exposure 3010s2D and Creek Evolution 100A as alternatives.
 

BigH

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Al ears said:
BigH said:
Al ears said:
Tronborg said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.

Thank you both!

Yes, I have been wanting to demo the pmcs actually... But I've had a hard rime finding a pmc dealer in my country. According to Google there is none, and so, I have given up on finding them.

Al Ears, I got about $700-1000 in my budget for a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope. Either way, I'll probably have to get a DAC for the Rega and a phono stage for the Hegel, so it evens out.

In that case it's a difficult shout. Having heard both I would take the Hegel only as long as the DAC is sufficient for your needs. These are developing so quick these days buying something with an integrated one could be a costly exercise. Phono preamps are not going to change much.

Dacs are changing so quickly, really?
w

Perhaps for you pedants I should have stated 'relatively' quickly.

Yes, the DAC chip itself is changing very rapidly. The basic design of a phono stage hasn't changed for decades but it's not been long that DACs can handle DSD and the higher res formats.. who wants a DAC that , from a little while ago, can only handle up to 24/96.

Personally this is why I have always gone for separates.

I see where you are coming from, I thought you were talking about the sound quality. Yes things are always changing in the music industry trying to get more sales with different formats, next it will be 32 bit and then 48 bit etc. Whether you can hear a difference is another matter.
 
BigH said:
Al ears said:
BigH said:
Al ears said:
Tronborg said:
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I'd put some pmc twenty 21's on your to dem list along with the 22's which can be found ex demo within the same price range as the cm6's.Less coloured and so much more natural sounding than the b&w's.IF you crave a bit of bass the 21's might be a bit to lean and that's where the 22's come in.

Thank you both!

Yes, I have been wanting to demo the pmcs actually... But I've had a hard rime finding a pmc dealer in my country. According to Google there is none, and so, I have given up on finding them.

Al Ears, I got about $700-1000 in my budget for a phono stage, so that shouldn't be an issue, I hope. Either way, I'll probably have to get a DAC for the Rega and a phono stage for the Hegel, so it evens out.

In that case it's a difficult shout. Having heard both I would take the Hegel only as long as the DAC is sufficient for your needs. These are developing so quick these days buying something with an integrated one could be a costly exercise. Phono preamps are not going to change much.

Dacs are changing so quickly, really?
w

Perhaps for you pedants I should have stated 'relatively' quickly.

Yes, the DAC chip itself is changing very rapidly. The basic design of a phono stage hasn't changed for decades but it's not been long that DACs can handle DSD and the higher res formats.. who wants a DAC that , from a little while ago, can only handle up to 24/96.

Personally this is why I have always gone for separates.

I see where you are coming from, I thought you were talking about the sound quality. Yes things are always changing in the music industry trying to get more sales with different formats, next it will be 32 bit and then 48 bit etc. Whether you can hear a difference is another matter.

Yes, I wasn't on about sound quality as such just what his two amps listed have fitted internally. Do you want one that has a dac and have to add a phono preamp or do you buy one with a phono stage then have to add a DAC?

Assuming both amps sounded the same I know which I would choose.

(To be honest it would probably be my third suggestion and then find both a dac and phono stage of my choosing. ;-) )
 
Hi Tronborg

The Hegel's bass grip, control, drive and overall presentation helps to form an excellent match with B&W, PMC and Harbeth loudspeakers.

The H160 also has a top quality DAC. Fwiw we've got clients who prefer the performance of the Hegel's DAC over their Hugo's.

Btw, what turntable/cartridge are you using please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Hi. The Hegel 160 can also stream, which is a very nice bonus. The PMCs are a great suggestion. Although ATC might not appeal to you aesthetically, they are also a good match. Also worth trying would be JM Reynaud Bliss, Revel Performa 3 M106 and Dynaudio.

For phonostage, check Sutherland PH3D, NVA Phono 2, Trichord Dino.
 
rainsoothe said:
Hi. The Hegel 160 can also stream, which is a very nice bonus. The PMCs are a great suggestion. Although ATC might not appeal to you aesthetically, they are also a good match. Also worth trying would be JM Reynaud Bliss, Revel Performa 3 M106 and Dynaudio.

For phonostage, check Sutherland PH3D, NVA Phono 2, Trichord Dino.

Whilst not doubting your suggestions I think something more attainable might be better. Where is he going to find an eight year old Sutherland to audition? NVA is pretty much the same. Same with most of the speakers suggested unless the OP is American.
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
Al ears said:
rainsoothe said:
Hi. The Hegel 160 can also stream, which is a very nice bonus. The PMCs are a great suggestion. Although ATC might not appeal to you aesthetically, they are also a good match. Also worth trying would be JM Reynaud Bliss, Revel Performa 3 M106 and Dynaudio.

For phonostage, check Sutherland PH3D, NVA Phono 2, Trichord Dino.

Whilst not doubting your suggestions I think something more attainable might be better. Where is he going to find an eight year old Sutherland to audition? NVA is pretty much the same. Same with most of the speakers suggested unless the OP is American.
NVA easily available: http://www.nvahifi.co.uk/phono-head-amplifiers
 
matthewpiano said:
Al ears said:
rainsoothe said:
Hi. The Hegel 160 can also stream, which is a very nice bonus. The PMCs are a great suggestion. Although ATC might not appeal to you aesthetically, they are also a good match. Also worth trying would be JM Reynaud Bliss, Revel Performa 3 M106 and Dynaudio.

For phonostage, check Sutherland PH3D, NVA Phono 2, Trichord Dino.

Whilst not doubting your suggestions I think something more attainable might be better. Where is he going to find an eight year old Sutherland to audition? NVA is pretty much the same. Same with most of the speakers suggested unless the OP is American.
NVA easily available: http://www.nvahifi.co.uk/phono-head-amplifiers

They are not readily available to audition in a dealers I meant. Yes you can buy them but I don't think OP is in the UK.

Or are you suggesting he doesn't need to audition?
 

rainsoothe

Well-known member
Al ears said:
matthewpiano said:
Al ears said:
rainsoothe said:
Hi. The Hegel 160 can also stream, which is a very nice bonus. The PMCs are a great suggestion. Although ATC might not appeal to you aesthetically, they are also a good match. Also worth trying would be JM Reynaud Bliss, Revel Performa 3 M106 and Dynaudio.

For phonostage, check Sutherland PH3D, NVA Phono 2, Trichord Dino.

Whilst not doubting your suggestions I think something more attainable might be better. Where is he going to find an eight year old Sutherland to audition? NVA is pretty much the same. Same with most of the speakers suggested unless the OP is American.
NVA easily available: http://www.nvahifi.co.uk/phono-head-amplifiers

They are not readily available to audition in a dealers I meant. Yes you can buy them but I don't think OP is in the UK.

Or are you suggesting he doesn't need to audition?

Well, the reason I'm suggesting those phono stages is that (even though I really don't know my stuff when it comes to phono stages) there's plenty of reports of phono stages being prone to hum or radio interference (or one of the two at least), which is not the case for ones with isolated power supplies. Which also means they can be ok at a dealers, but he might have trouble in his own place. As far as i know, the Sutherland is battery powered, and the other two have sepparate power suplies, and they fall in his budget (I think).

As for the brands, they're available in Romania, so I doubt they'd be troublesome to find elsewhere :p If OP is in the UK, then NVA is a no-brainer, since they have 30-day trial period. But I thought, because he expressed budget in USD (I think), that' he's based in the US, so that means Revel should be high on prio list.
 

matthewpiano

Well-known member
Al ears said:
matthewpiano said:
Al ears said:
rainsoothe said:
Hi. The Hegel 160 can also stream, which is a very nice bonus. The PMCs are a great suggestion. Although ATC might not appeal to you aesthetically, they are also a good match. Also worth trying would be JM Reynaud Bliss, Revel Performa 3 M106 and Dynaudio.

For phonostage, check Sutherland PH3D, NVA Phono 2, Trichord Dino.

Whilst not doubting your suggestions I think something more attainable might be better. Where is he going to find an eight year old Sutherland to audition? NVA is pretty much the same.  Same with most of the speakers suggested unless the OP is American.
NVA easily available: http://www.nvahifi.co.uk/phono-head-amplifiers

They are not readily available to audition in a dealers I meant. Yes you can buy them but I don't think OP is in the UK.

Or are you suggesting he doesn't need to audition?

 

No, definitely not suggesting that.
 

Tronborg

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Al ears said:
Unless you are absolutely set on one of the pair you have listed I would suggest another to add to your list. This one will require you to add phono stage and DAC of your choice separately.

This is the Roksan Caspian M2 Integrated.

Thank you, I'll definitely auditiono it, even though it's above my price point.

i'll audition Creeks too, as suggested, while I'm at it.

Musicraft, sounds good! I'm glad to hear the speaker pairing isn't awful.

I'm currently using an entry level project turntable, but I'm in all likelyhood going to be using the clearaudion concept, with their concept pick-up.

Thanks for all your answers, I'm taking all of them into consideration, even though I might not have replied specifically to you.

By the way, I'm from Scandinavia, I thought this was an American website, but perhaps I should have used GPB as currency instead.
 

Artoo

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There is a good deal for the H160 at Soundgarden this weekend, if you happen to live in Norway. 17 kNOK (would be about 1400 GBP I think).
 

GustavAP

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BigH said:
As you are in Scandinavia I would suggest Abrahamsen if you can get to their shop.

I really never understood if they actually have a shop, is it just outside Oslo? Because I think they are assembled in Gothenburg, but I can't really see anywhere if they have place where they can be auditioned. Should probably email them and see if that could be possible this summer.
 
Tronborg said:
Al ears said:
Unless you are absolutely set on one of the pair you have listed I would suggest another to add to your list. This one will require you to add phono stage and DAC of your choice separately.

This is the Roksan Caspian M2 Integrated.

Thank you, I'll definitely auditiono it, even though it's above my price point.

i'll audition Creeks too, as suggested, while I'm at it.

Musicraft, sounds good! I'm glad to hear the speaker pairing isn't awful.

I'm currently using an entry level project turntable, but I'm in all likelyhood going to be using the clearaudion concept, with their concept pick-up.

Thanks for all your answers, I'm taking all of them into consideration, even though I might not have replied specifically to you.

By the way, I'm from Scandinavia, I thought this was an American website, but perhaps I should have used GPB as currency instead.

Then I am not sure what you are looking at budget wise. The Roksan can be had for about £500 cheaper than the Hegel you mention.
 

Tronborg

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I didn't specify that I could get a good deal on the h160, though I did say it was roughly the same price as the Rega. 'Roughly' in regards to money can mean a lot of things for different people, so I understand the confusion.

Thanks again for your input. I'll audition the amps this coming week, but so far it seems like your intial lean towards the Hegel is where I'm going.
 

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