Best integrated amp under £4000?

[Vladimir]

hello mate long time no see i hope your ok *smile*

Yello! Doing great myself. How are you fellow Felco owner? You have that new car smell to you, dunno why. *acute*

Well nearly new car a ford focus about a year old

Those bloody things are quick and sharp. I was a passenger in one last year, got my internal organs mixed up. Have fun!

 

[insider9]

I'm working diligently to improve my writing skills. Hopefully, the next review will reflect that.

I only wish my tecnical ability was in the same ballpark as your writing skills, which I find well above average - mostly due to the effort you put in to keep the reader engaged.

You're too kind *blush*

 

[nopiano]

The snag is that the majority of us here in Blighty have no idea about US pricing, so our relative value perceptions are influenced by local prices.

As a home grown product, I’d definitely investigate the new Krell. https://www.whathifi.com/news/krell-unveils-its-most-affordable-integrated-amp-yet

And also Parasound, as suggested earlier in the thread. Best avoid overpriced Japanese and Canadian imports!

If any Mark Levinson products are in range, then they are another highly desirable product.

 

[CnoEvil]

If any Mark Levinson products are in range, then they are another highly desirable product.

Yup....and Conrad Johnson.

 

[gasolin]

Audio research also seem like alot use when I watch some hifi video's

 

[Happy_Listener]

Hey Vlad!

Long time no talk. Nice to see you back here on the forum. Always good to read your contributions to the topics. You gave me some sound advice here. However, I've had this itch for about 2 months now and that is the longest iv'e gone before without scratching. I think it's quite impossible to hold off much longer. I only took this long because it's one of my bigger purchases and I want to make sure it's done right.

Cheers

 

[Vladimir]

Painless way to scratch the itch and experience new stuff is to go s/h. Box swapping with new kit, at those prices, idk. Risky.

 

[lindsayt]

]Not that I want to defend DVLA in any way, but like most things, any one single product isn’t just a sum of its parts. There’s the stuff you can’t see as well, like software, and unless you just use someone else’s, that’s a huge drain on resources for any electronics manufacturer. There’s bespoke menu systems that have been produced from scratch and continually improved and updated, particularly when Apple or Microsoft update their own software.
Dont forget the 30wpc Class A amplifier in the DVLA, and any other bits you’ve missed out. Yes, the casework won’t be cheap, but if you want something to look like chrome bathroom scales, it’s going to cost ya.

What you say about the sum of the parts and software is true.

But in post #52 to which I got challenged for making stuff up I did specifically say less than £400 in parts in a £400 case.

The software doesn't count as "parts". Just as it doesn't in a PC.

I've included the cost of the parts for a 30wpc Class A amplifier in the Devialet 400 in my £400 estimate. My original statement still stands about the cost of the parts - regardless of Devialet's develeopment and overhead costs.

We can also compare the cost of the software in Devialet products to miniDSP. You can buy a miniDSP 2x4 kit direct from the manufacturer for $80 plus $10 for the software.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

I have no idea what the bill of materials cost is for a Devialet 400, but I do know that it is likely a tiny fraction of the cost of bringing the product to market. Likewise with every other commercially produced audio component throughout history.

 

[newlash09]

May I suggest a slightly left of field option. I recently bought a devialet D-premier second hand from usaudio mart.com. You could some of them cropping up on audiogon too.

I also bought a parasound hint new in the usa. Both the devialet and parasound are very neutral. I do find the parasound sound to be mellow. I don't know if that is the same as being warm.

Considering that the harbeths have a very organic sound, I think pairing them with neutral amps might be a good idea.

I would urge you to look second hand with that budget. You could make a real killing. I saw lots of plinius and other high end kit on USA sites. I unfortunately needed something compact and easy to carry back , so I went for the devialet.

@ Mr.Vladimir : very happy to have you back. This forum wasn't the same without your wit

 

[CnoEvil]

Considering that the harbeths have a very organic sound, I think pairing them with neutral amps might be a good idea.

I would expect Devialet/Harbeth to work really well.

 

[Singslinger]

I would pair the Harbeths with either Accuphase or Naim amps. A lower-priced but surprisingly good option would be Exposure - its 3020D integrated is superb value for money.

I notice you have the Marantz PM-14S1 on your original list which suggests to me that you might like the easygoing, relaxed sound of these amps. If so, there's a new reference Marantz integrated, the PM-10 which has just been released that might be interesting to consider, even if it might be slightly over your budget.

Good luck - there's plenty of choice at that price, so take your time.

 

[Macspur]

Considering that the harbeths have a very organic sound, I think pairing them with neutral amps might be a good idea.

I would expect Devialet/Harbeth to work really well.

It does.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Infiniteloop]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

I have no idea what the bill of materials cost is for a Devialet 400, but I do know that it is likely a tiny fraction of the cost of bringing the product to market. Likewise with every other commercially produced audio component throughout history.

The bill of materials should also include bespoke R&D, bespoke electronics and software development including an entire OS.

You don’t get awarded that many patents without real innovation.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

I have no idea what the bill of materials cost is for a Devialet 400, but I do know that it is likely a tiny fraction of the cost of bringing the product to market. Likewise with every other commercially produced audio component throughout history.

The bill of materials should also include bespoke R&D, bespoke electronics and software development including an entire OS.

You don’t get awarded that many patents without real innovation.

 

It took them a lot of patents to get the transformer to hum so loud.

 

[lindsayt]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

I have no idea what the bill of materials cost is for a Devialet 400, but I do know that it is likely a tiny fraction of the cost of bringing the product to market. Likewise with every other commercially produced audio component throughout history.

The bill of materials should also include bespoke R&D, bespoke electronics and software development including an entire OS.

You don’t get awarded that many patents without real innovation.

No, strictly speaking in engineering and accounting terms the bill of materials is the list of components that make up a product from a manufacturing point of view. Therefore R&D and software development should not be included.

Just about every amplifier ever made has "bespoke electronics" inside it.

On the patent front, miniDSP have a series of products using the patented Dirac technology. The DDRC-24 retails for $399 (plus $75 for the Umik).

Comparing Devialet to one man enthusiast type amplifier manufacturers, what you tend to get with the tiny companies is their R&D for free. This is reflected in the price of their products both new and used.

It is entirely up to any individual if they want to pay for the Devialet research, patent, design, marketing costs either new or at a reflected lower rate 2nd hand.

Or they can buy products from other companies where these costs are much lower or not passed onto the customer. Or they can buy used where the asking price bears no resemblance to the new price.

I look at the Devialet 400 from an engineering point of view. The component cost vs asking price ratio is not good. Not even at £4000 2nd hand.

There are plenty of used amplifiers where the component cost (especially if adjusted for inflation) is higher than the asking price. From my engineering point of view that's better value for money (where the amplifier can do a job in my system).

 

[kukulec]

e.g. Luxman worth its price? I mean this seems impressive.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[Infiniteloop]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

I have no idea what the bill of materials cost is for a Devialet 400, but I do know that it is likely a tiny fraction of the cost of bringing the product to market. Likewise with every other commercially produced audio component throughout history.

The bill of materials should also include bespoke R&D, bespoke electronics and software development including an entire OS.

You don’t get awarded that many patents without real innovation.

It took them a lot of patents to get the transformer to hum so loud.

Mine is completely silent.

 

[Philim]

Both of mine are too.

 

[seemorebtts]

audio analogue maestro anniversary

 

[Happy_Listener]

I will look into it seemorebtts. Thanks.

 

[seemorebtts]

I will look into it seemorebtts. Thanks. 

It's what I'm trying to get. Lot's on eBay at £5000

 

[Alantiggger]

I'm still deciding on my next integrated amp. Thought it was going to be the Accuphase E-270 but then I got to thinking about all of the other choices out there. It's a lot of money so I want to make the best choice. I'm using Harbeth P3ESR's right now but would like the versatility of buying new speakers without worrying that I have enough power. My budget is $5000 USD or about £4000. I'll give you a long list:

Acuuphase E-370, Roksan Blak, Luxman L-505ux, Yamaha A-S2100, Parasound Halo Hint 6, Marantz PM-14S1, McIntosh MA-252, McIntosh 5300, Hegel H190, Bryston B60R, Rega Elicit R, Musical Fidelity M6si, Pathos Classic One, Perreaux Éloquence 150i, Plinius Inspire 980, LFD Zero LE Mk4.0, Sonneteer Orton, Naim SuperNait, Lavardin IS Reference, on and on.... You get the point.

The more I think about it the more confused I become. Wish I had the time and money to buy all of them, audition and compare them, then write up a very long review for everyone.

Any standouts for you? If it was your Bread, your Loot, your Quid, what do you think you would choose? Always nice to hear from you guys.

Oh my goodness, afflicted hearing, have you yet went to see your family doctor yet ?

£4000, hahahaahahahahaha ! Brilliant ! Simply Brilliant !

4k , really, on an amp (of all things) ???

BTW, could I have your Old Amp per chance ?