Best integrated amp under £4000?

[Happy_Listener]

I'm still deciding on my next integrated amp. Thought it was going to be the Accuphase E-270 but then I got to thinking about all of the other choices out there. It's a lot of money so I want to make the best choice. I'm using Harbeth P3ESR's right now but would like the versatility of buying new speakers without worrying that I have enough power. My budget is $5000 USD or about £4000. I'll give you a long list:

Acuuphase E-370, Roksan Blak, Luxman L-505ux, Yamaha A-S2100, Parasound Halo Hint 6, Marantz PM-14S1, McIntosh MA-252, McIntosh 5300, Hegel H190, Bryston B60R, Rega Elicit R, Musical Fidelity M6si, Pathos Classic One, Perreaux Éloquence 150i, Plinius Inspire 980, LFD Zero LE Mk4.0, Sonneteer Orton, Naim SuperNait, Lavardin IS Reference, on and on.... You get the point. [/b]

The more I think about it the more confused I become. Wish I had the time and money to buy all of them, audition and compare them, then write up a very long review for everyone. [/b]

Any standouts for you? If it was your Bread, your Loot, your Quid, what do you think you would choose? Always nice to hear from you guys.[/b]

 

[Macspur]

I'm still deciding on my next integrated amp. Thought it was going to be the Accuphase E-270 but then I got to thinking about all of the other choices out there. It's a lot of money so I want to make the best choice. I'm using Harbeth P3ESR's right now but would like the versatility of buying new speakers without worrying that I have enough power. My budget is $5000 USD or about £4000. I'll give you a long list:

Acuuphase E-370, Roksan Blak, Luxman L-505ux, Yamaha A-S2100, Parasound Halo Hint 6, Marantz PM-14S1, McIntosh MA-252, McIntosh 5300, Hegel H190, Bryston B60R, Rega Elicit R, Musical Fidelity M6si, Pathos Classic One, Perreaux Éloquence 150i, Plinius Inspire 980, LFD Zero LE Mk4.0, Sonneteer Orton, Naim SuperNait, Lavardin IS Reference, on and on.... You get the point. 

The more I think about it the more confused I become. Wish I had the time and money to buy all of them, audition and compare them, then write up a very long review for everyone.  

Any standouts for you? If it was your Bread, your Loot, your Quid, what do you think you would choose? Always nice to hear from you guys.

 
 

If you can stretch to the E370, you really wouldn't want for any more... others from your list I like are Perreaux, Mcintosh, Luxman Pathos and Lavardin.
However, imo the only ones to come near the Accuphase are the Luxman and Mcintosh and you can add Devialet and Sugden too.
Can't remember if you said on the other post if you're able to demo in store or at home?
Mac
www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[lindsayt]

Best is such an elastic term. Best in terms of getting the very best sound quality for your system would be a $10 used Japanese big brand integrated or maybe a $300 new direct from cottage manufacturer integrated.

Leaving you $4700 to $4990 to put towards a home extension / room treatments / better sounding speakers.

Buying a $5000 amplifier is OK if that's what you want to do, but it would be somewhat of a vanity "I want a trophy amplifier" project for as long as you keep Harbeth P3ESR's.

 

[jjbomber]

Any standouts for you? If it was your Bread, your Loot, your Quid, what do you think you would choose? Always nice to hear from you guys.

Leema Acoustics Tucana II would be my choice.

 

[insider9]

I want to make the best choice. I'm using Harbeth P3ESR's right now but would like the versatility of buying new speakers without worrying that I have enough power.

That makes your shortlist less than half the size. Consider DSP in the future and it makes it even more important to have enough power, particularly if you listen and mid to high volume. It would pretty much almost rule out any Class A, any tubes and realistically leave you with a hybrid, Class AB, or any variation of Class D.

How often do you change your gear? Would the above be really important or just preferable? If you did change your speakers are you planning to get anything inefficient? How much power realistically do you think you need?

 

[insider9]

Any standouts for you? If it was your Bread, your Loot, your Quid, what do you think you would choose? Always nice to hear from you guys.

Leema Acoustics Tucana II would be my choice. 

And it would be a great choice if running any speaker is really important.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

For £4000 you can buy the flagship Yamaha A-S3000 or buy secondhand on something that cost more then £4000 when new

 

[chebby]

I would go for an Accuphase but that’s based on looks, meters, reputation, Japanese build etc. Also it had a handy slot at the back for their own - optional - DAC plug in card.

A lot of my decision would be based on completely irrational and personal stuff of which pride of ownership (of that particular brand) would be very high.

It won’t happen unless I get a sizable windfall from the lottery though.

I would would also partner it with Harbeths.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of spending £4000 on an amp nowdays.

There is so much more performance to be gained by buying smart.

Just remember, once you enter your PIN number that £4000 amp turns almost immediately into a £2000 amp in value.

Just look on eBay for examples.

I wouldn't look at 'high end brands' as with £4000 you could only afford the 'bottom of the range' and you want an amp with enough power to drive any future speaker.

I'd look at what specs your after then search for a good 2nd amp.

The advice Lindsay gave would be even much better 'performance per buck' also

You need to look at the insides of the amp to determine this.

Another food for thought if you hell bent on buying new.

Consider for £4000 you could get top of the range Cambridge Audio compared to bottom of the range 'high end'

Once you've removed public perception and marketing have a look at the build inside.

I say this so you can remain a happy listener.

 

[Electro]

Predictably perhaps I would go for the Electrocompaniet ECI 6 intrgrated amp for £3095 or if you want a top quality built in dac as well the ECI6 D at £4040.

https://www.mackenziehifi.com/electrocompaniet-250-c.asp

They will drive any speaker you connect to them effortlessly and last a lifetime .

A review.

https://headmania.org/2018/03/04/electrocompaniet-eci-6-integrated-speaker-amplifier-review/

Just add music ! *biggrin*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Not if your goal is to keep the amplifier long term or a end goal amplifier that you wish to keep as long as it keeps working then your not worried about losing £2000 as soon as you buy new as not everyone continues to box swap that’s when you start to lose money .

Buying secondhand with warranty is just as safe as buying new and there are lots of amplifiers like you say Andrew on EBay at a cheaper cost and personally I wouldn’t buy a Cambridge amplifier not even the old flagship amplifier that came out before the current one the one with the power amplifier as I had a demo on one and it sounded boring but that’s just my opinion *smile*

But basically I would say you would have a little more choice if your got £4000 to spend on a amplifier but it doesn’t stop there because you need to spend a good amount of money on speakers too to take benefit from the good amplifier or it’s just a wast of money as well as the playback device you could keep going it’s knowing when to stop that’s the problem .

 

[iceman16]

The PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP is also worth considering if you like valve sound and it’s within your budget.

 

[Al ears]

Cnevils breakdown is very accurate, in my opinion, although I would have placed the Parasound in Neutral with a bit of warmth category, just goes to show everyone's hearing is different. You really have to ask what exactly you want that amp to connect to.

Do you want an inbuilt DAC? Do you require an inbuild MM or MC phono preamp? Do you want a pre out function? Do you need a sub output? Do you need a headphone socket?

Once you have answered questions such as these you can shortlist those on your original listing.

If it was my money it would be Luxman all the way unless I wanted a true 'Swiss army knife' then it would be the Parasound.

If I ever had to downsize my system for box-count reasons then this is the amp I have been looking at as a replacement.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cnevils breakdown is very accurate, in my opinion, although I would have placed the Parasound in Neutral with a bit of warmth category, just goes to show everyone's hearing is different. You really have to ask what exactly you want that amp to connect to.

I'm afraid it doesn't .....I've never heard a parasound amp, so was flying by the seat of my pants.*blush* I would put more stock on your assessment and will move it, to where it should be.

I welcome informed comment on products that I'm not personally familiar with and will adjust my list accordingly.

 

[insider9]

Cno, this could make an excellent standalone thread about amplifiers

Since you're open to moving stuff around. What do you reckon about these?

Densen 4 -> 5

Primare 3 -> 4

 

[Romulus]

Cnevils breakdown is very accurate, in my opinion, although I would have placed the Parasound in Neutral with a bit of warmth category, just goes to show everyone's hearing is different. You really have to ask what exactly you want that amp to connect to.

I'm afraid it doesn't .....I've never heard a parasound amp, so was flying by the seat of my pants.*blush* I would put more stock on your assessment and will move it, to where it should be.

I welcome informed comment on products that I'm not personally familiar with and will adjust my list accordingly.

I just wondered whether you heard Moon amps as you claim are a little uninvolving. I only ask as I am interested in the Simaudo Moon Integrated Amp 240i in comparison with Hegel H90amp. From reviews both amp seem to have their qualities in sound but the Moon seems to edge it with a better all round DAC, also has a phono stage and 10 year warranty. Ofcourse the best way is to audition them both and the only dealer which has both I believe is in Birmingham..?

 

[CnoEvil]

I just wondered whether you heard Moon amps as you claim are a little uninvolving. I only ask as I am interested in the Simaudo Moon Integrated Amp 240i in comparison with Hegel H90amp. From reviews both amp seem to have their qualities in sound but the Moon seems to edge it with a better all round DAC, also has a phono stage and 10 year warranty. Ofcourse the best way is to audition them both and the only dealer which has both I believe is in Birmingham..?

When I was looking for an Amp that was better for 2 Channel (than my AVR600), I really wanted to go for the Moon i7. On paper it ticked all the boxes - Powerful, well built, HT Bypass, Ex-dem price and great reviews, saying it was refined and musical.

I had it home for a long weekend and through my Ref 205/2s sounded "shouty" when the volume was turned up. It was the least favorite of the 4 contenders - Coda CSi, Musical Fidelity M6i and MF AMS35i. The 35i was the only one I preferred over my AVR600.

I have also heard the 750D CDP + 700i Amp + Totem Wind Speakers.....and it also sounded similar (though worse) - but I don't like Totem speakers, which I also find shouty.

I've heard Moon CDPs sound fine in non Moon set ups....but have always preferred Electro CDPs.

Of the 2 Amps, I think Hegel would suit "Me" better.

 

[Al ears]

Cnevils breakdown is very accurate, in my opinion, although I would have placed the Parasound in Neutral with a bit of warmth category, just goes to show everyone's hearing is different. You really have to ask what exactly you want that amp to connect to.

I'm afraid it doesn't .....I've never heard a parasound amp, so was flying by the seat of my pants.*blush* I would put more stock on your assessment and will move it, to where it should be.

I welcome informed comment on products that I'm not personally familiar with and will adjust my list accordingly.

Many thanks. Appreciate there are going to be many people who have not heard the vast majority of the OPs list and therefore making comparisons is pretty useless.

The amp / speaker combo along with the OPs own hearing / room layout is always so individual I find it difficult to comment on posts such as these. I can only provide the usual comments on ' does the amp have all the inputs you require' and go audition as many as you can with own speakers etc.

 

[CnoEvil]

You have a great list of Amps there....and I'm not sure that our preferences will help a great deal. How many of these can you try.

FWIW. Here is my advice.

1. Can you describe as accurately as possible:

- What you look for in an amp

- What Sound qualities you look for in a system.

- What Amps you have liked in the past

- What music do you listen to

2. How likely are you to keep the Harbeths or remain with the Harbeth brand. How likely are you to move to more efficient Floorstanders.

3. Take the list of amps and split them into basic sonic catagories - ie. Warm/Musical/Neutral/Refined/ Clean/Analytical etc (I will have a go at this, but I haven't heard all of them).

4. It may come down to what you can get a deal on.....but synergy/suitability with your long term speakers could be important.

5. What is your feeling on Class D eg. Bel Canto; or A/D eg. Devialet.

 

[CnoEvil]

Cno, this could make an excellent standalone thread about amplifiers

Since you're open to moving stuff around. What do you reckon about these?

Densen 4 -> 5

Primare 3 -> 4

I'm certainly open.

I have heard Densen a couple of times....am I right that you owned it? - in which case it will be moved forthwith.

I was a little more familiar with Primare before they moved to Class D (the previous i30 would certainly have been in 4)......how familiar are you with current models?

Here is a quote from another forum about the i32, which matches my view: "If sonic neutrality, with a slight leaning to the icy-cool side, is what you're hankering for, the I32 is going to please you.". and Techradar review says it has a "Beautifully neutral tonal balance"...so it will take an owner of the Class D version (like NP) to fully change my mind.

 

[nopiano]

Cno, this could make an excellent standalone thread about amplifiers

Since you're open to moving stuff around. What do you reckon about these?

Densen 4 -> 5

Primare 3 -> 4

I'm certainly open.

I have heard Densen a couple of times....am I right that you owned it? - in which case it will be moved forthwith.

I was a little more familiar with Primare before they moved to Class D (the previous i30 would certainly have been in 4)......how familiar are you with current models?

Here is a quote from another forum about the i32, which matches my view: "If sonic neutrality, with a slight leaning to the icy-cool side, is what you're hankering for, the I32 is going to please you.". and Techradar review says it has a "Beautifully neutral tonal balance"...so it will take an owner of the Class D version (like NP) to fully change my mind.

Well, I don’t find my Primare has an icy cool thing at all, or it’d be on eBay, but it is pretty neutral with no added ‘glow’ or richness. I’m not sure how much improvement the new I35 has at around £3500. I think of mine as more like the Devialet I would have liked, but without the silly spec, and without the ultimate refinement I’ve heard from them.

There is a brand new Krell 300i integrated, spiritual heir to my ancient KAV-series model. I suspect it’s around 5000USD, so would be worth seeking out.

Otherwise, I understand the draw of the Luxman and Accuphase amps. And Alan Shaw would probably say that a £500 AV amp is quite good enough!

 

[gasolin]

As much power as you can afford

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=34&v=bRMR9JZ1m0s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=308&v=UP8i8F62OlM

https://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php/component/content/article?id=443:musical-fidelity-m6-500i-integrated-amplifier

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/musical-fidelity-m6-500i-14-mon-alt-high-end-vollverstaerker/892310719-172-3013

 

[CnoEvil]

Well, I don’t find my Primare has an icy cool thing at all, or it’d be on eBay, but it is pretty neutral with no added ‘glow’ or richness. I’m not sure how much improvement the new I35 has at around £3500. I think of mine as more like the Devialet I would have liked, but without the silly spec, and without the ultimate refinement I’ve heard from them.

Excellent feedback - so out of my catagories, would you leave it in neutral? I certainly think your ATCs are the right speakers to show its character....which is why I wanted your input.

(Apologies to OP for taking over your thread - but the discussion and feedback should help.)

 

[Happy_Listener]

Cno, I like your post Thanks.

From the amps I have listened to before I think you were pretty much right on the mark with those descriptions. Nice job.

Believe it or not that actually helps me out in narrowing down what my priorites are. I need to categorize and and make a short list. The things to take in consideration would be number 1 what type of sound I prefer..... Then the looks, pride of ownership, how well built it is, brand reliability, the ease of servicing in case something goes wrong, and finally its resale value.

I was overwhelmed before but this shoud help me narrow it down. On your list I'm leaning towards the #6 and #7 amps. Also, a bit from #4. I think these types of sounds I prefer.

The amps I have heard so far are the McIntosh 5300 and MA 252, the Rega Elicit R, the Parasound Halo, Naim Atom, Bryston B60, Pathos, Sugden A21, Hegel H80, and Rotel. Heard them all at different times and in different systems so it's hard to compare them directly. I can only go by memory, however acurate that is.

Thanks to everyone else here as well posting your comments.

 

[CnoEvil]

I am also No.6 and 7....but would certainly consider 4 with Harbeth.

A lot of people on HUG recommend LFD with Harbeth.