Best integrated amp under £4000?

[lindsayt]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

Another way of looking at Internet forums is that people can make any sort of wild claim they like, without any form of actual proof.

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW I’d put it very slightly warmer than neutral, and that’s with Focal speakers.

That bears out my thoughts. I think I'm going to move it back. *angel*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Alchemist and Blacksabbath, the Yamaha A-S3000 costs me $7000 here in the States. So over my budget. Otherwise it's a good recommendation.

Secondhand? I've bought lots of gear used before but this time I prefer new.

Wow ! thats a lot of money $7000 but still a very good amp i also had the yamaha A-S2100 which is also very good .

 

[CnoEvil]

Densen has the flow, the musicality, dynamics, by all means bold, musical and fun. It's often described as a tad thin when it comes to presentation and as such is a good partner for richer sounding speakers. Densen + Dynaudio is one combination I've come across a number of times.

This is more how I heard Densen. I don't think an amp can be a bit thin, yet bold. Have a look at the rest of that catagory - where you have amps like Exposure and Naim - and the last way you would describe them would be a bit thin...more full on and a little warm.

The Densen needs to move imo.....what about going to the more musically delicate catagory, like Lavardin? This is where it's very engaging, doesn't push the music at you and often works with speakers that help fill their sound out.

 

[Vladimir]

"The more I think about it the more confused I become." - Don't buy anything. It's the typical oniomania itch. It's the worst thing to buy out of needing to buy something. You need to lust over the kit for a minimum of 2 years. Lock it down in your mind and your wet dreams. Lust over it first, then buy it. Make sure it hurts on the wallet.

If you must, get some cable elevators or gold plated fuses. Whatevs. Or lay off the enabling audio forums for a while.

Off-topic: How is everyone BTW? *drinks* I hope that Quest annoyance isn't active on the forum ATM .

 

[CnoEvil]

"The more I think about it the more confused I become." - Don't buy anything. It's the typical oniomania itch. It's the worst thing to buy out of needing to buy something. You need to lust over the kit for a minimum of 2 years. Lock it down in your mind and your wet dreams. Lust over it first, then buy it. Make sure it hurts on the wallet.

If you must, get some cable elevators or gold plated fuses. Whatevs. Or lay off the enabling audio forums for a while.

OFFTOPIC: How is everyone BTW? *drinks* I hope that Quest annoyance isn't active on the forum atm.

Well hello there Mr. Vladamir, I hope life is treating you well.....and hope you'll stick around and keep things interesting.

 

[lindsayt]

Another way of looking at the Devialet 400 is that it has less than £400 in parts inside a £400 case.

Another way of looking at Internet forums is that people can make any sort of wild claim they like, without any form of actual proof.

How much do you think the circuit board and collection of resistors, capacitors, chips etc cost inside the Devialet 400?

Compare it to PC motherboards that have a similar content in terms of components, apart from the medium sized power supply capacitors that the Devialet has at a cost of a few quid each.

 

[Vladimir]

All good Cno. Got nothing to contribute really, just hang out with the boys and make facetious remarks.

Interesting thread btw.

@lindsayt

I have no idea how amplifiers are made. Do you get bunch of capacitors, resistors, diodes, transformers, transistors and chunks of aluminium, throw them in a bucket, shake well and pour out a ready made amp? If so, I may DIY a Krell this weekend, to pass the time.

 

[davidf]

Another way of looking at Internet forums is that people can make any sort of wild claim they like, without any form of actual proof.

I thought that’s what forums were for?

 

[CnoEvil]

Another way of looking at Internet forums is that people can make any sort of wild claim they like, without any form of actual proof.

I thought that’s what forums were for?

By George, you're on form today!

 

[davidf]

Another way of looking at Internet forums is that people can make any sort of wild claim they like, without any form of actual proof.

I thought that’s what forums were for?

By George, you're on form today!

Well, let’s face it, probably 90% of posts* on forums worldwide are “wild claims”, either by way of being a keyboard expert, or regurgitating some other tosh that someone posted.

*no basis I reality, like most things

 

[jjbomber]

Well, let’s face it, probably 90% of posts* on forums worldwide are “wild claims”,

Remember 89.4% of statistics are made up, including this one!

 

[Blacksabbath25]

"The more I think about it the more confused I become." - Don't buy anything. It's the typical oniomania itch. It's the worst thing to buy out of needing to buy something. You need to lust over the kit for a minimum of 2 years. Lock it down in your mind and your wet dreams. Lust over it first, then buy it. Make sure it hurts on the wallet.

If you must, get some cable elevators or gold plated fuses. Whatevs. Or lay off the enabling audio forums for a while.

Off-topic: How is everyone BTW? *drinks* I hope that Quest annoyance isn't active on the forum ATM .

hello mate long time no see i hope your ok *smile*

 

[insider9]

Densen has the flow, the musicality, dynamics, by all means bold, musical and fun. It's often described as a tad thin when it comes to presentation and as such is a good partner for richer sounding speakers. Densen + Dynaudio is one combination I've come across a number of times.

This is more how I heard Densen. I don't think an amp can be a bit thin, yet bold. Have a look at the rest of that catagory - where you have amps like Exposure and Naim - and the last way you would describe them would be a bit thin...more full on and a little warm.

The Densen needs to move imo.....what about going to the more musically delicate catagory, like Lavardin? This is where it's very engaging, doesn't push the music at you and often works with speakers that help fill their sound out. 

Ahhh, I've ignored that category. Fair enough, yes it's more delicate than Naim definitely. It could work. Bold in terms of dynamics was my thinking. Not bold like NAD with big bass.

 

[lindsayt]

Yeah, but what happens if someone makes a statement and then backs it up with some evidence.

Look at the image of the Devialet 400 I posted.

Google PC motherboards. Look at the retail pricing of them. Compare the complexity and component type and count to the Devialet 400

Look at the price of audio grade power supply capacitors on a website such as this:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html

Then make up your own mind on the total cost of the components inside a Devialet 400.

 

[Vladimir]

Then make up your own mind on the total cost of the components inside a Devialet 400.

How much does a PCB CNC machine cost? Surface mount soldering machines? CNC Milling machines? Engraving? Printing? Powder coating? Aluminium anodizing? Electronic engineers? Industrial designers? Rent? Is it made in China or France?

 

[insider9]

Yeah, but what happens if someone makes a statement and then backs it up with some evidence.

Look at the image of the Devialet 400 I posted.

Google PC motherboards. Look at the retail pricing of them. Compare the complexity and component type and count to the Devialet 400

Look at the price of audio grade power supply capacitors on a website such as this:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html

 

Then make up your own mind on the total cost of the components inside a Devialet 400.

I've looked into making DIY Devialet. It's definitely not that simple even if you could get the parts for a fraction of the cost.

I don't doubt for a minute their margins are very healthy, but isn't this why people go into business for? As long as there's demand I'm sure they'll continue to do so.

 

[davidf]

Yeah, but what happens if someone makes a statement and then backs it up with some evidence.

Yeah, but who does that?!

Look at the image of the Devialet 400 I posted.

Google PC motherboards. Look at the retail pricing of them. Compare the complexity and component type and count to the Devialet 400

Look at the price of audio grade power supply capacitors on a website such as this:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/capacitors.html

Then make up your own mind on the total cost of the components inside a Devialet 400.

Not that I want to defend DVLA in any way, but like most things, any one single product isn’t just a sum of its parts. There’s the stuff you can’t see as well, like software, and unless you just use someone else’s, that’s a huge drain on resources for any electronics manufacturer. There’s bespoke menu systems that have been produced from scratch and continually improved and updated, particularly when Apple or Microsoft update their own software.

Dont forget the 30wpc Class A amplifier in the DVLA, and any other bits you’ve missed out. Yes, the casework won’t be cheap, but if you want something to look like chrome bathroom scales, it’s going to cost ya.

 

[CnoEvil]

Acuuphase E-370, Roksan Blak, Luxman L-505ux, Yamaha A-S2100, Parasound Halo Hint 6, Marantz PM-14S1, McIntosh MA-252, McIntosh 5300, Hegel H190, Bryston B60R, Rega Elicit R, Musical Fidelity M6si, Pathos Classic One, Perreaux Éloquence 150i, Plinius Inspire 980, LFD Zero LE Mk4.0, Sonneteer Orton, Naim SuperNait, Lavardin IS Reference, on and on.... You get the point.

I will have a go at catagorizing your list - but it's really a starting point, where others can then change position, if I've got it wrong:

1. Forward/Exciting/Analytical

- Chord; Cyrus; Cambridge Audio; Audiolab

2. Clean/Detailed/A little Uninvolving

- Linn; Bel Canto; Moon; Digital Nad;

3. Neutral

- Bryston; Rotel; Primare; Griffon; Hegel.

4. Neutral with a hint of warmth

- Classe; Plinius; ATC; Mark Levinson; Creek; Rega; Yamaha; Perreaux; Sonneteer; LFD; Marantz, Parasound; Devialet

5. Bold/Musical/Fun

- Naim; Roksan; Exposure; Leema; Krell; Nad.

6. Slightly Warmer/Darker/Richer

- Electrocompaniet; Musical Fidelity; Arcam; Audio Analogue; Unison Research Unico; Quad; McIntosh

7. Rich/Clear/Engaging/Euphonius[/b]

- Accuphase; Luxman; Pathos; Sugden; Croft; Audio Research; Esoteric

8. Musical/Delicate

- Lavardin; Coda; Ayre; Aesthetix; Densen

There is almost certainly some crossover between some catagories - and I don't claim to have got this spot on.

 

[CnoEvil]

Ahhh, I've ignored that category. Fair enough, yes it's more delicate than Naim definitely. It could work. Bold in terms of dynamics was my thinking. Not bold like NAD with big bass.

Now moved.

I was not really happy with it where it was, as it didn't equate with my impression from hearing it....but it was only a couple of times, 6 or 7 years ago....so would usually take an owners view in that case.

You are meticulous and methodical over your measurements....I try to be be the same with the adjectives I use when describing sound. I suffer from OCD "Art Brain", so am fairly fanatical about being as close to reality as possible (taking on board subjectivity).

IMO. Our preference of what sound we like, may differ greatly....but we should be in reasonable agreement over the basic characteristics that make up said sound. Sometimes, I think the two get muddled. Eg. A very clean, forward treble may be described as bright by some vs detailed and exciting by others....but it's still a forward sounding Treble, with an elevated Presence Range.

 

[insider9]

Ahhh, I've ignored that category. Fair enough, yes it's more delicate than Naim definitely. It could work. Bold in terms of dynamics was my thinking. Not bold like NAD with big bass.

Now moved.

I was not really happy with it where it was, as it didn't equate with my impression from hearing it....but it was only a couple of times, 6 or 7 years ago....so would usually take an owners view in that case.

You are meticulous and methodical over your measurements....I try to be be the same with the adjectives I use when describing sound. I suffer from OCD "Art Brain", so am fairly fanatical about being as close to reality as possible (taking on board subjectivity).

IMO. Our preference of what sound we like, may differ greatly....but we should be in reasonable agreement over the basic characteristics that make up said sound. Sometimes, I think the two get muddled. Eg. A very clean, forward treble may be described as bright by some vs detailed and exciting by others....but it's still a forward sounding Treble, with an elevated Presence Range.

+1

I'm working diligently to improve my writing skills. Hopefully, the next review will reflect that.

 

[Vladimir]

hello mate long time no see i hope your ok *smile*

Yello! Doing great myself. How are you fellow Felco owner? You have that new car smell to you, dunno why. *acute*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

hello mate long time no see i hope your ok *smile*

Yello! Doing great myself. How are you fellow Felco owner? You have that new car smell to you, dunno why. *acute*

Well nearly new car a ford focus about a year old

 

[CnoEvil]

I'm working diligently to improve my writing skills. Hopefully, the next review will reflect that.

I only wish my tecnical ability was in the same ballpark as your writing skills, which I find well above average - mostly due to the effort you put in to keep the reader engaged.