Best integrated amp under £4000?

[Happy_Listener]

Yes gasolin,

I think those Harbeths like the power. I guess most speakers sound best with lots of power behind them. I recently heard the Focal Kanta's which are actually pretty easy to drive. Once with a Naim Atom and Pathos Classic One and the follwing week with a 450 watt McIntosh amp. Those speakers really came alive with the Mac amp! The control it had over the speakers was amazing compared to the other two. It really made a difference. I'm not saying you can't get great sound from low powered amps. My Sugden A21 drives the P3's pretty well up to moderate volumes. It sounds good too. I just think there is an added benefit from having lots of power. It's something to take into consideration.

 

[CnoEvil]

What country are you in?

 

[insider9]

I'm certainly open.

I have heard Densen a couple of times....am I right that you owned it? - in which case it will be moved forthwith.

I was a little more familiar with Primare before they moved to Class D (the previous i30 would certainly have been in 4)......how familiar are you with current models?

Here is a quote from another forum about the i32, which matches my view: "If sonic neutrality, with a slight leaning to the icy-cool side, is what you're hankering for, the I32 is going to please you.". and Techradar review says it has a "Beautifully neutral tonal balance"...so it will take an owner of the Class D version (like NP) to fully change my mind.

Indeed, I've owned Densen. And I really like that category as a whole.

My experience with Primare is from owning A30.1 Mk2 and I22. As well as listening to A20 Mk2 at my mate's which he bought on my recommendation.

I always felt there was sweetness to Primare sound. Class D I've heard was a definite step towards more neutral sound and in comparison to A30.1, Class D I22 lost some timbral charm (A30.1 was a very full sounding amp.) However I22 gained forward momentum which overal was a good thing. I'd still say it had a hint of warmth, just not as much as older Class AB. Definitely nothing icy-cool about it (I know the quote is about I32). At that point I wasn't happy with the trade-off, so I sold them both.

I'd say they used to be warmer than they are. I'm happy either way.

 

[CnoEvil]

Indeed, I've owned Densen. And I really like that category as a whole.

My experience with Primare is from owning A30.1 Mk2 and I22. As well as listening to A20 Mk2 at my mate's which he bought on my recommendation.

I always felt there was sweetness to Primare sound. Class D I've heard was a definite step towards more neutral sound and in comparison to A30.1, Class D I22 lost some timbral charm (A30.1 was a very full sounding amp.) However I22 gained forward momentum which overal was a good thing. I'd still say it had a hint of warmth, just not as much as older Class AB. Definitely nothing icy-cool about it (I know the quote is about I32). At that point I wasn't happy with the trade-off, so I sold them both.

I'd say they used to be warmer than they are. I'm happy either way.

Densen now moved based on your assessment.

Primare staying where it is, based on being Class D and the fact that I'd only put the warmer AB amp in that catagory.

Hope that's fair. *dirol*

 

[gasolin]

I also think my dynaudios would sound alot more different, mabye more punchy if i have a2x200 watt cambrigde amp instead of 2x60 watt amp.

The harbeth speakers in the video could handle up to 750 clean watt without sounding extreme loud, that tells us that for most floor stand speakers with normal sensitivity, you need alot of clean power to get punchy bass.

Like a car.

You could have a fast car with 200hp but 500hp or more it starts to get really fun, even when you don't driver so fast

 

[insider9]

Densen now moved based on your assessment.

Primare staying where it is, based on being Class D and the fact that I'd only put the warmer AB amp in that catagory.

Hope that's fair. *dirol*

Sure, Cno. We could do with it as a sticky if there ever was such a thing on this forum. It would come in handy quite often I suspect.

 

[Macspur]

Densen now moved based on your assessment.

Primare staying where it is, based on being Class D and the fact that I'd only put the warmer AB amp in that catagory.

Hope that's fair. *dirol*

Sure, Cno. We could do with it as a sticky if there ever was such a thing on this forum. It would come in handy quite often I suspect.

+1

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[nopiano]

Well, I don’t find my Primare has an icy cool thing at all, or it’d be on eBay, but it is pretty neutral with no added ‘glow’ or richness. I’m not sure how much improvement the new I35 has at around £3500. I think of mine as more like the Devialet I would have liked, but without the silly spec, and without the ultimate refinement I’ve heard from them.

Excellent feedback - so out of my catagories, would you leave it in neutral? I certainly think your ATCs are the right speakers to show its character....which is why I wanted your input.

(Apologies to OP for taking over your thread - but the discussion and feedback should help.)

Yes, I think neutral is the most suitable slot. FWIW I never found Devialet to have any warmth, so I think I’d have that as neutral too (but it’s your list!).

The ATC SIA2-150 integrated is a super machine and worth four grand all day long, though lists at about £3600 today, I believe. Probably a tad warmer as it has quite a lot of Class A bias I understand.

 

[lindsayt]

I also think my dynaudios would sound alot more different, mabye more punchy if i have a2x200 watt cambrigde amp instead of 2x60 watt amp.

The harbeth speakers in the video could handle up to 750 clean watt without sounding extreme loud, that tells us that for most floor stand speakers with normal sensitivity, you need alot of clean power to get punchy bass.

Like a car.

You could have a fast car with 200hp but 500hp or more it starts to get really fun, even when you don't driver so fast

Give it a try. Listen to how your Dyn's sound with a 200 watt amp.

And then give your 60 watt amp a try with 95+ db efficient speakers.

For the car analogy: it'd be like comparing a 20 tonne lorry with a 500 hp engine against a Caterham with a 200 horsepower engine.

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes, I think neutral is the most suitable slot. FWIW I never found Devialet to have any warmth, so I think I’d have that as neutral too (but it’s your list!).

I would rather the list was as accurate as possible.

I was working on the theory, that the "A" part of the the AD, would make the Devialet a touch Less Digital/More Refined, and SAM would make it sound a little warmer.....I nearly put in Neutral and am still happy to do so, if owners would give feedback - I9, what do you think?

 

[CnoEvil]

Sure, Cno. We could do with it as a sticky if there ever was such a thing on this forum. It would come in handy quite often I suspect.

It's not a sticky, but I've started 2 threads (one of Amps and one for Speakers), that can be referred to if necesary and updated to keep them relevant

 

[insider9]

I've heard Devialet and thought it was rather neutral. Didn't detect any warmth. But that was with speakers I didn't know well, which are known to be neutral.

 

[Al ears]

Well, I don’t find my Primare has an icy cool thing at all, or it’d be on eBay, but it is pretty neutral with no added ‘glow’ or richness. I’m not sure how much improvement the new I35 has at around £3500. I think of mine as more like the Devialet I would have liked, but without the silly spec, and without the ultimate refinement I’ve heard from them.

Excellent feedback - so out of my catagories, would you leave it in neutral? I certainly think your ATCs are the right speakers to show its character....which is why I wanted your input.

(Apologies to OP for taking over your thread - but the discussion and feedback should help.)

Yes, I think neutral is the most suitable slot. FWIW I never found Devialet to have any warmth, so I think I’d have that as neutral too (but it’s your list!).

The ATC SIA2-150 integrated is a super machine and worth four grand all day long, though lists at about £3600 today, I believe. Probably a tad warmer as it has quite a lot of Class A bias I understand.

+1

As a purist amp this still takes some beating.

 

[Happy_Listener]

I personally can't really get into class D. Although Primare does a pretty good job of it. Nothing sounds offensive. Class D has it's pluses and minuses. On the plus side the the class D amps are lighter, runs cool, uses less electricity, and can get a ton of power for the size, weight, and cost of ther amp. On the negative side, for me, it always come down to the same problem. The sound quality. I've owned a Linn using the tech. I've heard the Peachtree, Rogue Sphinx and Bel Canto among others. To me they all have a certain greyness to the sound. A bit flat and lifeless. They lack in real body and natural warmth. They aren't bad mind you, I can live with it if I have to, I just always feel like that last little bit is missing from the sound compared to Class A and AB designs.

As far as Densen, I owned a Beat 100 a long, long time ago. A very nice amp. I can't say how the newer ones are.

 

[CnoEvil]

The Devialet is moving!

 

[alchemist 1]

For £4000 you can buy the flagship Yamaha A-S3000 or buy secondhand on something that cost more then £4000 when new

Agreed.......+1

 

[Happy_Listener]

Cno,

I live in the USA. So I suppose some amps like Mcintosh will be better value for me here. While there is a huge difference in price for you in the UK between a Roksan Blak and a McIntosh MA5300 (£3950), the price here in the States is the same at $5000. Accuphase is also expensive here as the importer really jacks up the prices. The E-270 sels for $5000 here but in Japan it sells for about $2900. Not too bad, however, the higher you go up the line the worse it gets. The E-370 in Japan costs about $1500 more over the E-270, but in the usa the distrubutor more than doubled its price to $10,500! Pretty ridiculous. It looks like you as well overpay for Mcintosh. Almost $9000 for that MA5300.

 

[Happy_Listener]

Alchemist and Blacksabbath, the Yamaha A-S3000 costs me $7000 here in the States. So over my budget. Otherwise it's a good recommendation.

Secondhand? I've bought lots of gear used before but this time I prefer new.

 

[insider9]

Since you mentioned Densen, I'd suggest a demo. I've had a B-110 and remember it fondly. Not many amps come close to flow and musicality of Densen.

Recently one of the members here got swayed by my kind words about the brand and got himself B-130XS. Last time he posted he was delighted with it. It also comes with lifetime warranty.

I've not heard about anyone with Harbeth and Densen but don't really see why it wouldn't work. Densen prefers rich sounding speakers so the combo should be worth investigating.

 

[CnoEvil]

I've not heard about anyone with Harbeth and Densen but don't really see why it wouldn't work. Densen prefers rich sounding speakers so the combo should be worth investigating.

As I have now put Densen into "Bold/Musica/Fun", would this not be too much with rich sounding speakers....though saying that, a lot of people rate Naim/Harbeth.

 

[insider9]

Densen has the flow, the musicality, dynamics, by all means bold, musical and fun. It's often described as a tad thin when it comes to presentation and as such is a good partner for richer sounding speakers. Densen + Dynaudio is one combination I've come across a number of times.

 

[Happy_Listener]

I always had a hunch that Densen and Dynaudio might sound good together.

 

[Infiniteloop]

A few years back I auditioned lots of Amps up to the £10K mark.

The Devialet 200 was the best Amp of the lot to my ears. I haven’t heard anything to change that and it’s why I still have it.

FWIW I’d put it very slightly warmer than neutral, and that’s with Focal speakers.

It’s an Amp that tends to bring out the best in the speakers it’s paired with, due to SAM which cleverly allows speakers to perform right up to their limits without distortion.

 

[Andrewjvt]

I always had a hunch that Densen and Dynaudio might sound good together. 

You'd be crazy not to audition the benchmark ahb2.
Claims for the cleanest sounding amp in the world and also technology that claims to make your passive speakers sound as good as actives as it produces no measurable distortion and can drive stereo loads as low as 1.4ohm.
With 2 you can bridge them for 380w a channel into 8ohm.

Although I still recommend buying 2nd hand.
You could get 2 for £4000 I think

 

[Philim]

For that sort of money I would aim higher than an mf6.
Personally I would look to 2nd hand market.
Devialet 400 can be gotten with warranty for 4-4.5k. that is £12k of amp.
Mf nuvista 600 ex demo with warranty for £3k.