Naim 5i powerful enough for KEF LS50?

[Audiofoolius]

My current speakers are the B&W 685's. After 4 years I am tempted to look for a speaker upgrade. The KEF LS50's are getting a lot of praise over here and the sound characteristics seem to match with what I'd like to improve on: better imaging, more refined/detailed trebles and more bass impact.

Would my amp, the Naim 5i (original version), be powerful enough to control these speakers? My room is quite small (3,5X3m), so there will be no need for exceptional high volume levels.

 

[BigH]

Not sure about Naim but have just heard the Kef LS50s with Musical Fidelity M3 and Audiolab 8200, both had enough to drive them, the MF was a bit more powerful, it was is a room about 4.5m square. They do need some driving playing low volume and hardly any sound had to turn the volume control up to about 10 o'clock on the MF and 11 on the Audiolab. My speakers at home only need to be about 8-9 o'clock on a lower powered amp. romm size is about the same. The Kefs were good a bit loose in the bass at times but I preferred them to the PMC DB1s. In your size room I would have thought the Naim would be OK, but try to get a home demo.

 

[Audiofoolius]

Thanks for the reply, BigH!

Unfortunately home demos are not really common in my country (Belgium). I will try to audition them though. It will be hard enough to find a shop that have these speakers up for auditioning.

 

[Frank Harvey]

BigH - if the LS50's sounded "a bit loose in the bass at times", then this shows that the accompanying amplification wasn't enough for the LS50's, or a placement issue. The amp should have a tight enough grip on the speaker for the bass to be kept tight. Having said that, the definition of 'loose bass' is open to interpretation.

Ideally, I'd say that the Nait XS is needed for the LS50's in order to hear them near their best, but in your room Audiofoolius, you should find the levels the Nait 5 will drive them to just fine. Even though the Nait 5 might not have full grip over the LS50's, they'll still be quite a step up from the 685's.

 

[Overdose]

Given your decision to upgrade to the LS50s and then possily require an amp, my default suggestion would be to try and listen to some ADM9s.

 

[BigH]

BigH - if the LS50's sounded "a bit loose in the bass at times", then this shows that the accompanying amplification wasn't enough for the LS50's, or a placement issue. The amp should have a tight enough grip on the speaker for the bass to be kept tight. Having said that, the definition of 'loose bass' is open to interpretation.

Ideally, I'd say that the Nait XS is needed for the LS50's in order to hear them near their best, but in your room Audiofoolius, you should find the levels the Nait 5 will drive them to just fine. Even though the Nait 5 might not have full grip over the LS50's, they'll still be quite a step up from the 685's.

So the MF M3i is not powerful enough? I also tried the Audiolab 8200 and that was less powerful.

 

[stevebrock]

Given your decision to upgrade to the LS50s and then possily require an amp, my default suggestion would be to try and listen to some ADM9s.

here we go again

 

[Frank Harvey]

So the MF M3i is not powerful enough? I also tried the Audiolab 8200 and that was less powerful.

Power doesn't really have anything to do with how well an amplifier can drive and control a speaker. It could be that the MF stuff is a little warm in the bass, and this can come across as a little 'loose'. I'd probably say that bass control between the M3i and Nait 5 won't be all that different, hence my recommendation of a Nait XS. But as I say, the OP may well be more than happy with an LS50/Nait 5 combination - only his ears can decide.

 

[ID.]

While the LS50s has good, punchy bass for their size, I don't think you are going to get more bass impact from them than you do from the 685s. More detailed and insiteful, yes, but not as much scale, depth and slam. TBH, I think you'd be looking at floorstanding speakers if you want more bass punch from your speakers, as the 685s have plenty of punch - some might say too much.

Sorry, can't comment on amplification as I've only heard them on the end of some Accuphase integrated amplifiers. The level of detail and imaging was phenomenal, but so was the cost of the source and amp combined (at least relative to the speakers or my current kit).

 

[Frank Harvey]

While the LS50s has good, punchy bass for their size, I don't think you are going to get more bass impact from them than you do from the 685s. More detailed and insiteful, yes, but not as much scale, depth and slam. TBH, I think you'd be looking at floorstanding speakers if you want more bass punch from your speakers, as the 685s have plenty of punch - some might say too much.

I suppose it is all subjective, but the 685's just aren't as clean and neutral as the LS50's, hence the preceived slam with the 685's - it's just a lot of bass, and additional colouration added by the cabinet - more bass smothers mid and treble detail. The LS50's cabinet adds nothing to the end result.

 

[BigH]

While the LS50s has good, punchy bass for their size, I don't think you are going to get more bass impact from them than you do from the 685s. More detailed and insiteful, yes, but not as much scale, depth and slam. TBH, I think you'd be looking at floorstanding speakers if you want more bass punch from your speakers, as the 685s have plenty of punch - some might say too much.

Sorry, can't comment on amplification as I've only heard them on the end of some Accuphase integrated amplifiers. The level of detail and imaging was phenomenal, but so was the cost of the source and amp combined (at least relative to the speakers or my current kit).

I have not heard the 685s but I have heard the CM1s which are similar but have more bass than the 685s I believe. It depends what you mean by bass, deep low or generally. I would say from what I heard the LS50s had as much bass as CM1s and probably more, I found the LS50s to be richer, this is more lower midrange I think, I thought tyhe LS50s better balanced than the CM1s and PMCs which had bass but seems a bit thin in the middle. Only way is to hear.

 

[BigH]

So the MF M3i is not powerful enough? I also tried the Audiolab 8200 and that was less powerful.

Power doesn't really have anything to do with how well an amplifier can drive and control a speaker. It could be that the MF stuff is a little warm in the bass, and this can come across as a little 'loose'. I'd probably say that bass control between the M3i and Nait 5 won't be all that different, hence my recommendation of a Nait XS. But as I say, the OP may well be more than happy with an LS50/Nait 5 combination - only his ears can decide.

So David which amps apart from Naim would be a good combo for the Kefs LS50s, before I went I thought the Audiolab 8200 would be good?

 

[Frank Harvey]

So David which amps apart from Naim would be a good combo for the Kefs LS50s, before I went I thought the Audiolab 8200 would be good?

Obviously there could be many answers here based on personal preference, but at the budget end, the Pioneer A50 works really well as it seems to have the same characteristics as the LS50's, and in my opinion keeps them sounding as they're intended. We ran ours in on the Nait XS, so I suppose having got used to them on that, moving to the Nait 5i wasn't quite the same. The current Rotel amplifiers sound good with them too, and offer an even more budget version than the Pioneer, although the RA12 is the ideal one to look at. They've also sounded good on the end of the Roksan Kandy, Marantz Pearl Lite, and Primare I22.

 

[Audiofoolius]

Thanks for the interesting remarks!

I am not looking for speakers that have more bass than the 685's, just better quality. Floorstanding speakers are not an option in my small room imo.

I actually like the idea that this speakers will improve with better amplification. That means that they can grow along with the rest of the system. Now I am reassured that my amp is good enough, but is the synergy also well? While I like my system to have more detailed trebles, I am a bit sensitive for too much brightness. Is there any risk of having an overly bright/harsh sound?

Active speakers have a great price-performance ratio , but at this moment (as I already have a decent system) I am not really interested in that option. From what I have read about ADM I also fear that they might sound a little too analytical for my taste.

 

[BigH]

So David which amps apart from Naim would be a good combo for the Kefs LS50s, before I went I thought the Audiolab 8200 would be good?

Obviously there could be many answers here based on personal preference, but at the budget end, the Pioneer A50 works really well as it seems to have the same characteristics as the LS50's, and in my opinion keeps them sounding as they're intended. We ran ours in on the Nait XS, so I suppose having got used to them on that, moving to the Nait 5i wasn't quite the same. The current Rotel amplifiers sound good with them too, and offer an even more budget version than the Pioneer, although the RA12 is the ideal one to look at. They've also sounded good on the end of the Roksan Kandy, Marantz Pearl Lite, and Primare I22.

Thanks, I would like to hear the Marantz Pearl Lite but my dealers don't stock them.

 

[plastic penguin]

So the MF M3i is not powerful enough? I also tried the Audiolab 8200 and that was less powerful.

Power doesn't really have anything to do with how well an amplifier can drive and control a speaker. It could be that the MF stuff is a little warm in the bass, and this can come across as a little 'loose'. I'd probably say that bass control between the M3i and Nait 5 won't be all that different, hence my recommendation of a Nait XS. But as I say, the OP may well be more than happy with an LS50/Nait 5 combination - only his ears can decide.

Sorry to divert the the thread a little. David, what's your view on the LS50 and Leema?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks, I would like to hear the Marantz Pearl Lite but my dealers don't stock them.

Unfortunately that's what happens when a product loses it's margin to heavily discounting retailers...

 

[BigH]

Thanks, I would like to hear the Marantz Pearl Lite but my dealers don't stock them.

Unfortunately that's what happens when a product loses it's margin to heavily discounting retailers...

Yes but I would not want to pay over £1,000 for one.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Thanks, I would like to hear the Marantz Pearl Lite but my dealers don't stock them.

Unfortunately that's what happens when a product loses it's margin to heavily discounting retailers...

Yes but I would not want to pay over £1,000 for one.

Of course not, especially when they retail for less than £1k!

 

[BigH]

OK they used to be £1,000.

 

[Frank Harvey]

OK they used to be £1,000.

I can't remember which one I checked now (amp or cd), but it was showing rrp as £919.

 

[alchemist 1]

I've had b&w cm1's, great sounding speakers.

My current ls50's have as much bass as the b&w's it's just better defined in it's texture and control.

The ls50's function bettter in smaller rooms. 8)

 

[Overdose]

Active speakers have a great price-performance ratio , but at this moment (as I already have a decent system) I am not really interested in that option. From what I have read about ADM I also fear that they might sound a little too analytical for my taste.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'analytical', but active speakers generally suffer from less distortion than passive speakers and in the case of monitors, are designed to reproduce the music as closley as possible to the recording. That's not to say that you'll find that a good thing, but they are not typically designed to have any inherent colouration, although design limitations mean that obviously some will exist.

Your initial post suggests that actives could be ideal for you. I understand that you have a system that you are happy with, but you intimated replacing speakers and then possibly having to upgrade the amp. For the same overall outlay (taking into consideration any residual value of existing kit) you could achieve the same result via actives, possibly even with a sub. The ADMs are my second set of active speakers, they might well be my last.

Whatever you decide, have fun and enjoy the music.

 

[plastic penguin]

Active speakers have a great price-performance ratio , but at this moment (as I already have a decent system) I am not really interested in that option. From what I have read about ADM I also fear that they might sound a little too analytical for my taste.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'analytical', but active speakers generally suffer from less distortion than passive speakers and in the case of monitors, are designed to reproduce the music as closley as possible to the recording. That's not to say that you'll find that a good thing, but they are not typically designed to have any inherent colouration, although design limitations mean that obviously some will exist.

Your initial post suggests that actives could be ideal for you. I understand that you have a system that you are happy with, but you intimated replacing speakers and then possibly having to upgrade the amp. For the same overall outlay (taking into consideration any residual value of existing kit) you could achieve the same result via actives, possibly even with a sub. The ADMs are my second set of active speakers, they might well be my last.

Whatever you decide, have fun and enjoy the music.

Not again, please. Just because you like active speakers it doesn't mean they are to everyone's taste.

 

[Overdose]

Whatever you decide, have fun and enjoy the music.

Not again, please. Just because you like active speakers it doesn't mean they are to everyone's taste.

The OP wouldn't know if they were to his taste as he clearly hasn't heard actives, much like many other naysayers it seems. My opinion is no less valid than any other so far and might actually be the perfect solution in this instance.

Maybe instead of displaying you negative bias, you could constructively advise the OP why active speakers and in particular, the ADM9s might not be ideal?