mp3 wins format showdown on gadget show

[Alec]

idc:Andrew Everard:

idc:Really, pretty valid test to me, though quite why they conducted it in a concert hall is beyond me.

That's like saying "I was amazed that they found a Fiat Panda was as fast as a Ferrari, though quite why they conducted the test going down a ski-slope in neutral is beyond me."

I was reacting to the negative comments made by you, Simon Lucas and also now Andy Clough. Yes you know your stuff more than the presenters on the Gadget Show, so why have the What Hifi posts been so negative? I would have hoped for something more along the lines of 'well, when we tested that Denon system we found that it suited such and such a type of music and the dock is particularly good. Whereas, the speakers used would not suit the record player's characteristics etc etc'. In other words an informed response. Instead ridicule. Disappointing. Andrew your car anaolgy does not work for me. Are you saying that the ipod won the test because of the location, something to do with the accoustics of the hall maybe? Now that would make more sense, but instead more ridicule.

I realise that just because on that day, with that set up because the two presenters preferred the ipod does not mean that ipods rule. But I also realise that your need to ridicule is frankly pathetic and surprising and comes over as professional snobbery.

Quite right, and I thought the gadget show was an insult to my intelligence.

But...you really expected better?

 

[Anonymous]

I watched The Gadget Show Format test (with disbelief) last night. The test completed lacked credibility in my opinion. The first thing I couldn't believe as others is commented is that they conducted the test in a large theatre with the Mordaunt Short speakers what looked like to be 3-4m apart.

Was the objective to test sources of the same budget? I didn't recognise the turntable but Igglebert says it was a Denon. It looked one that has been sold under various brands. Anyway, if all of this is true then I'm not surprised came last. Regardless, testing with one recording didn't seem like a fair test. They also said that the LP was the remastered version which can be very hit and miss.

I watch The Gadget Show - its fairly entertaining but I take any reviews with a pinch of salt. But is it just me or does anyone else find Jason Bradbury extremely annoying?

 

[Andrew Everard]

idc:I would have hoped for something more along the lines of 'well, when we tested that Denon system we found that it suited such and such a type of music and the dock is particularly good. Whereas, the speakers used would not suit the record player's characteristics etc etc'. In other words an informed response. Instead ridicule. Disappointing. Andrew your car anaolgy does not work for me. Are you saying that the ipod won the test because of the location, something to do with the accoustics of the hall maybe? Now that would make more sense, but instead more ridicule.

OK, an informed response then. We haven't tested in a large auditorium any of the equipment used in the TV programme you watched last night , simply because it's not designed to be used in rooms of that size, with the speakers relatively close together and at extended listening distances. As a result, we fail to see how any meaningful conclusion can be drawn from the test.

In addition, let's talk about the turntable used in the test: Denon has only two turntables in its range - a budget model with a built-in phono stage and digital to analogue conversion which is sold in the UK, and one with just the phono stage sold in other markets. Both models are fully automatic designs, which start and stop the record automatically, placing and lifting the arm, and previous experience with turntables of this kind would suggest that their performance would be compromised by these convenience features.

I can't comment on the rigour with which the test was actually carried out, despite the presence of one of Denon UK's senior staff as 'operator', but have to take on face value what appeared on screen.

So why the ridicule? Because the item as it appeared on screen seemed ridiculous.

 

[Anonymous]

ok andrew i agree with what you have said
but then i dont think these presenters know much about hi fi
but they did use there own ears to judge what they heard
and knew the mp3 player should have sounded the worst
and they where surprised that the mp3 player won in sound
i am only thinking each to there own where hifi is concerened,,
as i also found it very hard to find any differences when i feed digital signal from

my mini disc or cd transport to my musicl fidelity x-dac v3 its sounds almost identical to my ears

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone see this article about how young people increasingly prefer the sound of MP3?

 

[Clare Newsome]

idc:

With more and more people using mp3 players you risk alienating them.

Probably worth pointing out that we were the first hi-fi mag - back in pre-iPod days of 1999 - to do an MP3 cover story, and that we've covered (and given Awards to) every generation of iPod/player/music phone since, plus accessories of all prices and types.

And we get a lot of stick for it from purists, too, but we'd rather reflect the increasingly diverse ways people enjoy their home (and mobile) entertainment....

Anyhow, that's my only comment on the matter - I was watching a movie.....

 

[Anonymous]

lydgate:
Anyone see this article about how young people increasingly prefer the sound of MP3?

Indeed, I posted it further up the page

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:
Indeed, I posted it further up the page

D'oh, sorry, wasn't reading carefully enough.

 

[John Duncan]

chebby:
I rip CDs in lossless - download iTunes+ music at 256kbps - listen to internet radio at varying rates up to 192kbps AAC - listen to LPs on my Rega - FM stereo radio - Freeview radio.

I cannot be bothered to compare. No point. I enjoy them all. I listen to music I want to listen to and if the most convenient media at that moment happens to be internet radio or a download or black vinyl then so be it.

My wife will tell you that the Archers omnibus edition sounds great through the hifi on radio 4 with FM stereo on a decent tuner with a good roof aerial. Better than via BBC iPlayer. Unless she gets up late or goes out and misses it! Then the iPlayer version sounds rather good!

I found watching a 1960s performance by Jacqueline du Pr‚ (Elgar Cello Concerto conducted by Daniel Barenboim) on youtube far more satisfying on some levels than listening to the same performance with a higher level of hifi 'purity' on CD.

All the "this format vs that format is nonsense" I think. We now have so much choice and flexibility available to us I think it is idiocy not to jump in and enjoy it all.

I nearly jumped up and went "yeeeeeeesssssss" when I read this last night. But my wife thinks I'm stupid as it is.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes I saw the programme last night and was not surprised by the result, I do not very often respect other peoples listening reviews, but it is their opinion and have a right to express it, which does not mean I agree with it.

But why are the majority of the WHFi team so bitchy and negative about it.............

 

[matthewpiano]

chebby:
I rip CDs in lossless - download iTunes+ music at 256kbps - listen to internet radio at varying rates up to 192kbps AAC - listen to LPs on my Rega - FM stereo radio - Freeview radio.

I cannot be bothered to compare. No point. I enjoy them all. I listen to music I want to listen to and if the most convenient media at that moment happens to be internet radio or a download or black vinyl then so be it.

My wife will tell you that the Archers omnibus edition sounds great through the hifi on radio 4 with FM stereo on a decent tuner with a good roof aerial. Better than via BBC iPlayer. Unless she gets up late or goes out and misses it! Then the iPlayer version sounds rather good!

I found watching a 1960s performance by Jacqueline du Pr‚ (Elgar Cello Concerto conducted by Daniel Barenboim) on youtube far more satisfying on some levels than listening to the same performance with a higher level of hifi 'purity' on CD.

All the "this format vs that format" is nonsense I think. We now have so much choice and flexibility available to us I think it is idiocy not to jump in and enjoy it all.

The post of a true MUSIC lover. Agree entirely with everything you say here Chebby. Excellent post.

 

[Anonymous]

Totally invalid test IMO...

Whatever was played first would have won.

They should have tricked the reviewers by playing the same format 3 times in a row and then listened to their comments too..

EDITED BY MODS - please do not attack other users.

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

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[Joe Cox]

MENISCUS:

But why are the majority of the WHFi team so bitchy and negative about it.............

Well, as lovers of music and technology we work very hard to inform our readers accurately. I don't think the test was a particularly well thought out one, and therefore it produces results that aren't overly helpful to the average punter watching the show - which is frustrating for us watching on.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:chebby:
I rip CDs in lossless - download iTunes+ music at 256kbps - listen to internet radio at varying rates up to 192kbps AAC - listen to LPs on my Rega - FM stereo radio - Freeview radio.

I cannot be bothered to compare. No point. I enjoy them all. I listen to music I want to listen to and if the most convenient media at that moment happens to be internet radio or a download or black vinyl then so be it.

My wife will tell you that the Archers omnibus edition sounds great through the hifi on radio 4 with FM stereo on a decent tuner with a good roof aerial. Better than via BBC iPlayer. Unless she gets up late or goes out and misses it! Then the iPlayer version sounds rather good!

I found watching a 1960s performance by Jacqueline du Pr‚ (Elgar Cello Concerto conducted by Daniel Barenboim) on youtube far more satisfying on some levels than listening to the same performance with a higher level of hifi 'purity' on CD.

All the "this format vs that format" is nonsense I think. We now have so much choice and flexibility available to us I think it is idiocy not to jump in and enjoy it all.

The post of a true MUSIC lover. Agree entirely with everything you say here Chebby. Excellent post.

Yes, I totally concur with Matthew and chebby,

I think that sometimes we get carried away with hardware and forget that the prime reason for all these bits of kit is to enable us to enjoy the MUSIC................

 

[Sliced Bread]

JoelSim:
dvdaudio:just watched the gadget show and the two presenters
had a blind test between mp3 player at 320kbs and cd and turntable using denon gear
and a pair big floorstand speakers
they listened to pink floyds money on each format and they thought the mp3 player was best
sounding then cd and last the turntable
i hope all you audiophiles seen this and are just a we bit troubled that a £150 mp player won the format showdowm
welcome to the download revoloution.time to buy ipod,,

Having plugged my iPod into my hifi, and put Fleetwood Mac on CD and on the iPod at the same time whilst swapping between inputs I can assure you that the ipod came a very very distant second.

ÿ

I have to agree and I'm using a decent Ipod touch compared with a decent but budget CD player (see signature) amd the ipod is clearly not as good. However (and this is a big however), how was the ipod connected to the rest of the system. I'm using a (ahem) Belkin 3.5mm Jack to phono cable to connect the ipod to the amp. Was the ipod on the show being passed though a docking station and then a digital out into an expensive DAC?

EDIT: oops for some reason I wrote disagree hen I meant agree...well according to the BBC report we do get stupider after 27!

 

[chebby]

I doubt that anyone watching something like the 'Gadget Show' is seeking responsible consumer advice, just as 'Top Gear' viewers are not going to be influenced in the purchase of their next family saloon.

Both shows are pure entertainment (unless - in the case of Top Gear - you happen to be a 13 year old boy with a fortune and a private race-track) and are not meant to be taken at all seriously as responsible consumer journalism.

It would be like reading 'Loaded' for it's sensitive and informed advice on relationships

 

[The_Lhc]

chebby: I doubt that anyone watching something like the 'Gadget Show' is seeking responsible consumer advice, just as 'Top Gear' viewers are not going to be influenced in the purchase of their next family saloon.
Both shows are pure entertainment (unless - in the case of Top Gear - you happen to be a 13 year old boy with a fortune and a private race-track) and are not meant to be taken at all seriously as responsible consumer journalism.

Sorry but I don't think you could be further from the truth, if that was the case TGS would have been testing a £100k Clearaudio turntable and equivalent CD player, rather than exactly the sort of kit that most non-hi-fi consumers are likely to buy. High Street stuff is hardly escapism, unlike Top Gear, which clearly is.

People will go out and buy things based on Gadget Show recommendations, and they WILL believe that vinyl is a dead format off the back of this "test".

 

[matthewpiano]

All I know is that whilst many of my customers reference What Hi-Fi or Which? magazine reviews, very few mention The Gadget Show and most of those that do refer to it as a bit of a joke.

 

[John Duncan]

the_lhc:they WILL believe that vinyl is a dead format off the back of this "test"

Like they didn't already?

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
Having plugged my iPod into my hifi, and put Fleetwood Mac on CD and on the iPod at the same time whilst swapping between inputs I can assure you that the ipod came a very very distant second.

Can you give some idea of the implementation and file formats?

 

[Anonymous]

Lets be fair, the 'Gadget Show' is about as thorough as making baking beans on toast for dinner. I mean most of us could do a better test in our own homes. Maybe not with quite so good gear (in my case) but it would get better results. The only thing I enjoyed from that show was the 'Mordaunt Short Performance' speakers which I someday hope to own., oh and Suzi Perry is ok.

 

[Clare Newsome]

JohnDuncan:the_lhc:they WILL believe that vinyl is a dead format off the back of this "test"

Like they didn't already?

Vinyl and turntable sales up last year - with strong growth in the budget market, and among younger consumers....