mp3 wins format showdown on gadget show

[idc]

Posted elsewhere (by me), but relevant here;

'I am going to stick my neck out and state in my experience music that is kept on computer file and played through an mp3 player and speaker dock is less prone to variations than a traditional hifi set up. For example; Ash's album 1977 sounded great on my cheap Panasonic tower system played on cassette (lively and dynamic, in keeping with the band's style), dreadful on a number of systems on CD, tolerable on CD with my last Arcam/Rega/B&W set up and now back to very good (not great) with a lossless file on ipod through the Bose.'

Is this the reason why the mp3 player won; it produces the most enjoyable sound and is less affected by the system used than the other formats?

 

[carter]

you would all change your tunes if you won the gadget show comp.

 

[Alec]

I know i would! whatwaht?

 

[PJPro]

FrankHarveyHiFi:I sort of expected this - let's face it, most of the listeners are probably used poor sounding TV's, in car stereos, MP3 players and music streamed off or played on PC's......[snip]
So what's the problem with music played on a PC exactly?

I'll come out of the closet. I like the gadget show. I watch it every week. I find it fun. I like the presenters. I don't make my buying decisions based on their recommendations.

Some of you lot could do with mellowing out. Life's too short!

 

[professorhat]

Surely you don't need a degree in electronics in order to be able to:

chebby:be able to lift the cover off any item of hifi and be able to see exactly how the thing works and to be able to make informed comment on the quality of the components/circuit layout and circuit design etc.

Experience would be enough surely, no? I've never understood the pressing desire people have for qualifications. I have virtually no qualifications but am highly experienced in my trade. I've never seen the need to sit an exam and show I know something theoretically when I'm perfectly able to demonstrate I know something practically in the job I do and the results I produce.

 

[chebby]

professorhat:Experience would be enough surely, no? I've never understood the pressing desire people have for qualifications.

Hmmm. Do you maintain that opinion when it comes to lawyers, surgeons, airline pilots, teachers, gas boiler installers ...etc

 

[professorhat]

In the instances where it isn't necessary to obtain the qualification to actually do the job, then yes e.g. you cannot be a lawyer without attending law school and obtaining the necessary qualification, thus anyone who has not done this is not a lawyer. Same goes for surgeon.

However, I have no issue with a teacher who hasn't got a teaching qualification. If they are a good teacher, know their stuff, and, in the case of teaching children, have passed the relevant necessary security checks, what's the issue?

 

[d4v3pum4]

I like the show, it's just fun and mindless entertainment for me. I certainly wouldn't base a purchase on it, nor would I based on a magazine review or forum opinion either. I didn't see the episode (at work) but in all honesty their testing is about as scientific as other reviewing methods employed elsewhere. I would much prefer a more scientific approach.

PS. Suzi is FINE

 

[Andrew Everard]

d4v3pum4:PS. Suzi is FINE

Oh good - we were rather worried...

 

[Alec]

PJPro:FrankHarveyHiFi:I sort of expected this - let's face it, most of the listeners are probably used poor sounding TV's, in car stereos, MP3 players and music streamed off or played on PC's......[snip] So what's the problem with music played on a PC exactly? I'll come out of the closet. I like the gadget show. I watch it every week. I find it fun. I like the presenters. I don't make my buying decisions based on their recommendations. Some of you lot could do with mellowing out. Life's too short!

Bravo!

 

[manicm]

idc:Andrew Everard:

idc:Really, pretty valid test to me, though quite why they conducted it in a concert hall is beyond me.

That's like saying "I was amazed that they found a Fiat Panda was as fast as a Ferrari, though quite why they conducted the test going down a ski-slope in neutral is beyond me."

I was reacting to the negative comments made by you, Simon Lucas and also now Andy Clough. Yes you know your stuff more than the presenters on the Gadget Show, so why have the What Hifi posts been so negative? I would have hoped for something more along the lines of 'well, when we tested that Denon system we found that it suited such and such a type of music and the dock is particularly good. Whereas, the speakers used would not suit the record player's characteristics etc etc'. In other words an informed response. Instead ridicule. Disappointing. Andrew your car anaolgy does not work for me. Are you saying that the ipod won the test because of the location, something to do with the accoustics of the hall maybe? Now that would make more sense, but instead more ridicule.

With more and more people using mp3 players you risk alienating them. Would you have reacted in the same way if the winner was the turntable? Before you glibly respond 'yes', does that mean someone like me, who does not have your experience and expertise also does not have a valid opinion and is likely to be ridiculed?

I realise that just because on that day, with that set up because the two presenters preferred the ipod does not mean that ipods rule. But I also realise that your need to ridicule is frankly pathetic and surprising and comes over as professional snobbery.

idc, one does not have to be an audiophile to appreciate the difference between compressed and uncompressed music, in a hifi system the latter will win hands down every time.

No-one's deriding MP3s or compressed music, but they do sound at their best in portable, personal systems. Even 320kb MP3s lack bass if not clarity.

This particular Gadget Show demo does sound like a Freak Show.

 

[Alec]

manicm:idc:Andrew Everard:

idc:Really, pretty valid test to me, though quite why they conducted it in a concert hall is beyond me.

That's like saying "I was amazed that they found a Fiat Panda was as fast as a Ferrari, though quite why they conducted the test going down a ski-slope in neutral is beyond me."

I was reacting to the negative comments made by you, Simon Lucas and also now Andy Clough. Yes you know your stuff more than the presenters on the Gadget Show, so why have the What Hifi posts been so negative? I would have hoped for something more along the lines of 'well, when we tested that Denon system we found that it suited such and such a type of music and the dock is particularly good. Whereas, the speakers used would not suit the record player's characteristics etc etc'. In other words an informed response. Instead ridicule. Disappointing. Andrew your car anaolgy does not work for me. Are you saying that the ipod won the test because of the location, something to do with the accoustics of the hall maybe? Now that would make more sense, but instead more ridicule.

With more and more people using mp3 players you risk alienating them. Would you have reacted in the same way if the winner was the turntable? Before you glibly respond 'yes', does that mean someone like me, who does not have your experience and expertise also does not have a valid opinion and is likely to be ridiculed?

I realise that just because on that day, with that set up because the two presenters preferred the ipod does not mean that ipods rule. But I also realise that your need to ridicule is frankly pathetic and surprising and comes over as professional snobbery.

in a hifi system the latter will win hands down every time.

Only if you're actually testing for it, imo. but then you may be talking about a more "hifi" system than i.

Mind, i saw the WHF demo at bristol, and was surprised how well the lesser file bore up in that system.

Maybe my ears need a clean.

 

[carter]

ok guys just like to no so pls dont attack me say you did have a decent demo room and say £300 amp ,£300 speakers and a couple of hundred on cables and bits.and you used a £180 i pod classic (lossless files)if you put that up against the same priced cd player and again with a record deck would you hear much between them at that leval of price.

 

[idc]

al7478:manicm:idc:Andrew Everard:

idc:Really, pretty valid test to me, though quite why they conducted it in a concert hall is beyond me.

That's like saying "I was amazed that they found a Fiat Panda was as fast as a Ferrari, though quite why they conducted the test going down a ski-slope in neutral is beyond me."

I was reacting to the negative comments made by you, Simon Lucas and also now Andy Clough. Yes you know your stuff more than the presenters on the Gadget Show, so why have the What Hifi posts been so negative? I would have hoped for something more along the lines of 'well, when we tested that Denon system we found that it suited such and such a type of music and the dock is particularly good. Whereas, the speakers used would not suit the record player's characteristics etc etc'. In other words an informed response. Instead ridicule. Disappointing. Andrew your car anaolgy does not work for me. Are you saying that the ipod won the test because of the location, something to do with the accoustics of the hall maybe? Now that would make more sense, but instead more ridicule.

With more and more people using mp3 players you risk alienating them. Would you have reacted in the same way if the winner was the turntable? Before you glibly respond 'yes', does that mean someone like me, who does not have your experience and expertise also does not have a valid opinion and is likely to be ridiculed?

I realise that just because on that day, with that set up because the two presenters preferred the ipod does not mean that ipods rule. But I also realise that your need to ridicule is frankly pathetic and surprising and comes over as professional snobbery.

in a hifi system the latter will win hands down every time.

Only if you're actually testing for it, imo. but then you may be talking about a more "hifi" system than i.

Mind, i saw the WHF demo at bristol, and was surprised how well the lesser file bore up in that system.

Maybe my ears need a clean.

However valid or invalid the test was (and now after some reasoned responses I accept it was invalid) I doubt very much this post would have run and run if either CD or vinyl had won. I wonder (I am sure it did) if the same thing happened back when CDs first came out and won a 'comparison test'.

In another recent post the question was asked can a hifi sound 'live' and the answer was an agreed no. Funnily enough a test from the Gadget Show was commented on (a singer vs a Linn) and there was no great controversy about that (the singer won). The reason why I bring this up is not because it involves the Gadget Show and a dodgy test, but because since hifi cannot accurately represent live sound, what does it represent? The sound quality at most of the concerts I have been to has been poor in any case. What live album sounds better than the studio version?

For me it music I enjoy listening to and after working my way through various traditional hifis, I have found it, with ipod. The more I read the more I think so are many other people and the Gadget Show is an example of this.

 

[Anonymous]

This has to be the most ridiculous topic in the forums...the end

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:

JohnDuncan:Clare Newsome:

JohnDuncan:the_lhc:they WILL believe that vinyl is a dead format off the back of this "test" Like they didn't already?

Vinyl and turntable sales up last year - with strong growth in the budget market, and among younger consumers....

You know that, I know that. None of my friends or relations do, nor do they care. They do go 'oooo' at my....er....volume control, and then go and listen to music on the Mac in the kitchen.

But with a 9 percent rise in the turntable market - and sales of £10m in the UK for 2008 alone - it's not as niche as you may think

A 10mm GBP turntable market still seems a very small to me, certainly still niche. Assuming an average of 250 per unit, it's still only 40k units sold. I reckon they sell that many iPods per week in the UK.

 

[Tear Drop]

idc:In another recent post the question was asked can a hifi sound 'live' and the answer was an agreed no. Funnily enough a test from the Gadget Show was commented on (a singer vs a Linn) and there was no great controversy about that (the singer won). The reason why I bring this up is not because it involves the Gadget Show and a dodgy test, but because since hifi cannot accurately represent live sound, what does it represent? The sound quality at most of the concerts I have been to has been poor in any case. What live album sounds better than the studio version?

WOW!!! That has staggered me. All I can say is that there must be a stunning lack of collective listening experience around these parts if it can be 'agreed' upon that hifi cannot sound live, or cannot 'accurately represent live sound'. Really, and I mean this quite seriously, perhaps a few people here should spend more time listening to and understanding - their own systems, other systems, and live music - rather than spending so much time on discussions on internet forums. Wow....

Edit: Can somebody provide a link to the thread referenced by idc? Thanks

 

[Andrew Everard]

Tear Drop:Edit: Can somebody provide a link to the thread referenced by idc? Thanks

Yes, it's here - Is it live...?

 

[chebby]

The popularity of this thread proves one thing for sure...

Television is the most popular medium of all. (Even amongst dedicated hifi listeners.)

There has been many a forum posting headed.. "MP3 ..format...blah... vs...something or other" but the mere mention of 'Gadget Show' sent this one ballistic.

 

[John Duncan]

chebby:
The popularity of this thread proves one thing for sure...

Television is the most popular medium of all. (Even amongst dedicated hifi listeners.)

There has been many a forum posting headed.. "MP3 ..format...blah... vs...something or other" but the mere mention of 'Gadget Show' sent this thread ballistic.

I wonder why...

 

[chebby]

JohnDuncan:chebby:

The popularity of this thread proves one thing for sure...

Television is the most popular medium of all. (Even amongst dedicated hifi listeners.)

There
has been many a forum posting headed.. "MP3 ..format...blah...
vs...something or other" but the mere mention of 'Gadget Show' sent
this thread ballistic.

I wonder why...

Doesn't do it for me.

Now, Dr Alice Roberts from 'Coast' maybe.......

http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2007/5474.html/2007-06-01.8974176864/image

(And she IS qualified.)

 

[Andrew Everard]

You're assuming we're all bikers?

More to the point, Simon Lucas and Jason Bradbury...

Theparated at birth?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:You're assuming we're all bikers?

Nah...just red blooded males!

 

[Andrew Everard]

vineetpatel69:Nah...just red blooded males!

14-year-old red-blooded males?

 

[professorhat]

I'm with chebby on this one - Alice for me all the way (in spite of my views on qualifications

).