Made in Britain? Sadly, not.

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drummerman

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John Arcam Dawson:
I have just come across this
thread. For the record Arcam maintains a full production facility in
the UK, and the company continues to manufacture much of our range
here. This includes all of our stereo amplifiers, plus all of our DVD
players and related products like the Solo Movie models and the CD37.

John Dawson (Arcam)

Interesting, now there are two manufacturers responding on this forum. It would be great if you (Arcam) could occasionally respond to questions/criticism here. It makes interesting reading, is informative and starts debates. You can't always expect unbiased opinions and I'm sure there are plenty of people that add unconstructive criticism about products they probably never heard for themselves (!) but I for one would welcome it.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
drummerman:John Arcam Dawson:
I have just come across this
thread. For the record Arcam maintains a full production facility in
the UK, and the company continues to manufacture much of our range
here. This includes all of our stereo amplifiers, plus all of our DVD
players and related products like the Solo Movie models and the CD37.

John Dawson (Arcam)

Interesting, now there are two manufacturers responding on this forum. It would be great if you (Arcam) could occasionally respond to questions/criticism here. It makes interesting reading, is informative and starts debates. You can't always expect unbiased opinions and I'm sure there are plenty of people that add unconstructive criticism about products they probably never heard for themselves (!) but I for one would welcome it.

Well you have Andy Clough to blame for inviting me into this forum
emotion-1.gif


Seriously I believe it is important for specialist manufacturers like Arcam to have senior staff taking some part in these forums (fora??) if only to comment on matters of fact from time to time. As veteran WHF staff (you know who you are!) will remember I used to take an active part in the old WHF forum about 8 years ago (where does time go eh?) when there was lots of unmoderated stuff going on - in the end that became too much for all of us. Since then I have made a fair number of mostly technical contributions to another site and avsforum.com in particular, though not at the rate Andrew, Clare et al seem to be managing here
emotion-2.gif


I have both a technical and marketing background for those who don't know me so ask away. I naturally reserve the right to ignore / not answer queries as the mood / pressure of work takes me - I hope you will all understand.

BTW Drummerman - are you just an interested consumer or do you have some trade affiliation?

John Dawson (Arcam)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
drummerman:
No trade interests whatsoever John. What is your role within Arcam?

I co-founded the company many many years ago in a college room in Cambridge as "Amplification & Recording". Since then I have worked in nearly ever major role in the company at some time or other. These days I have handed over day to day management and I tend to do "futurology", product planning and some hardware electronic design, the big part of which will see the daylight in the not too distant future.
 

drummerman

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John Arcam Dawson:drummerman:

No trade interests whatsoever John. What is your role within Arcam?

I co-founded the company many many years ago in a college room in Cambridge as "Amplification & Recording". Since then I have worked in nearly ever major role in the company at some time or other. These days I have handed over day to day management and I tend to do "futurology", product planning and some hardware electronic design, the big part of which will see the daylight in the not too distant future.

I hope you keep contributing to this forum from time to time and the same goes for Ashley James/AVI. Many thanks.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
I read with interest in "a rival publication" Arcam produced a cassette deck some years back - turned out around 400 units and left it at that. Any reason why the company didn't pursue the medium, or were the pressures of turning out the highly successful Arcam Alpha 5/6 amp and CD players (I'm guessing it was around this time?) too demanding on the production side?

(BTW - I still have my Alpha 5 - a strong amp to this day IMO)

EDIT - Thanks for taking the time to answer our queries too John - very much appreciated.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the record spot:I read with interest in "a rival publication" Arcam produced a cassette deck some years back - turned out around 400 units and left it at that. Any reason why the company didn't pursue the medium, or were the pressures of turning out the highly successful Arcam Alpha 5/6 amp and CD players (I'm guessing it was around this time?) too demanding on the production side?

(BTW - I still have my Alpha 5 - a strong amp to this day IMO)

EDIT - Thanks for taking the time to answer our queries too John - very much appreciated.

The full story behind the Delta 100 cassette deck is a long one - perhaps for another time - the short version is that this first design didn't really make money despite its £850 price tag. It was one of the first units in the market with Dolby S - a very powerful analogue noise reduction system - and with good tape and not too demanding music it was difficult to tell a CD and the taped copy apart. Unfortunately this time also saw the launch of the ill fated DCC (digital compact cassette) by Phillips and Matsushita and its rival MD (Mini Disc) by Sony, and our unit was caught in the crossfire as it were. In particular Sony used its manufacture of the Dolby S chipsets (they were the sole supplier at the time) to drive down cassette deck costs to try to kill DCC - they succeeded by the way - and we could never get economy of scale we needed with a follow up Alpha class machine because the complete decks were sold on the market at well below the cost of us buying mass volume of kits of parts. So it goes. I still have one by the way
emotion-1.gif


And thanks for the praise on the Alpha 5/6 series - a range which really put us on the map and which were made (in the UK) in very large numbers - this was before Chinese based manufacture led to a catastrophic fall in prices (from our point of view!) as with DVD players and so on.

John Dawson
 
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Anonymous

Guest
chebby:So my Arcam Solo-Mini is made where? Does Arcam have their own UK based QC and/or testing for these units?

The Solo Mini made to our specification by our manufacturing partner in China - we couldn't get anywhere near the same bill of materials cost with local manufacture and price is very important here as you can imagine. We also specify a thorough test and QC programme at the point of manufacture and follow this up with sample testing of every batch here in the UK before release to the market. I am pleased to say it's been very reliable so far; naturally we also examine any and all field failures here in the UK and feed back what we find to the OEM. We of course can service them (and all our other products) here in the UK.

I hope you are pleased with it by the way
emotion-1.gif


John Dawson
 

Gwyndy

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thfcwestlower:Leema are from the Welsh Valleys!

Am I the only one that finds it odd that they have no dealers in Wales? possibly the only company that I would consider leaving my beloved Linn for and no dealers in my homeland, shame that. Maybe I can get a factory visit?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
chebby:John Arcam Dawson:drummerman:
No trade interests whatsoever John. What is your role within Arcam?

I co-founded the company many many years ago in a college room in Cambridge as "Amplification & Recording". Since then I have worked in nearly ever major role in the company at some time or other. These days I have handed over day to day management and I tend to do "futurology", product planning and some hardware electronic design, the big part of which will see the daylight in the not too distant future.

Ooh so you helped design this?......

ar60r.jpg


And the T21 ? (I used to sell them back in 1978 when I worked Saturdays in a hifi shop whilst doing my A'Levels)

Yup sure did - the A60 was designed in 1976 by Chris Evans (my business partner at the time) and myself - he did the preamp and I did the power amp and we both did the err... somewhat basic industrial design. We thought we would build say 50 and sell them to our friends - we actually ended up selling nearly 32,000 over the next 10 years including 2,000 built under licence in New Zealand. Every unit was fully QC'd, soaked and then listened to - you can track this on the sticker on the left hand side of the pcb inside and you might find his initials or mine on some of those labels
emotion-15.gif
. I can certainly remember packing them in 1979/80 when we were flat out trying to make well over 100 per week - it was all hands to the pump!

The core front end of the T21 was bought in as a design from another UK company - Nytech - though I remember doing a lot of work to try to get the RF performance to be the way we wanted it. Chris did a lot of the rest of the work including the 21 LED moving dot frequency bargraph which told you the tuning frequency - one LED per MHz - hence T21. The LEDs were actually dithered so they faded in and out from one to the next so you could interpolate to a couple of hundred kilohertz or so - I was quite proud of that idea!

Which dealer did you work for?

John
 
T

the record spot

Guest
John Arcam Dawson:

The full story behind the Delta 100 cassette deck is a long one - perhaps for another time - the short version is that this first design didn't really make money despite its £850 price tag. It was one of the first units in the market with Dolby S - a very powerful analogue noise reduction system - and with good tape and not too demanding music it was difficult to tell a CD and the taped copy apart. Unfortunately this time also saw the launch of the ill fated DCC (digital compact cassette) by Phillips and Matsushita and its rival MD (Mini Disc) by Sony, and our unit was caught in the crossfire as it were. In particular Sony used its manufacture of the Dolby S chipsets (they were the sole supplier at the time) to drive down cassette deck costs to try to kill DCC - they succeeded by the way - and we could never get economy of scale we needed with a follow up Alpha class machine because the complete decks were sold on the market at well below the cost of us buying mass volume of kits of parts. So it goes. I still have one by the way
emotion-1.gif


And thanks for the praise on the Alpha 5/6 series - a range which really put us on the map and which were made (in the UK) in very large numbers - this was before Chinese based manufacture led to a catastrophic fall in prices (from our point of view!) as with DVD players and so on.

John Dawson

Thanks for the detailed reply John. It does raise a question though thinking about the DCC and MD saga of the day and more recently the hi-res audio disappointments of DVD-A & SACD orthe HD Blu-Ray face-off.

As a manufacturer, what is your (or Arcam's) take on developing a - for instance - SACD compatible player for market? What would influence the decision making within an organisation that would lead you to go with SACD over DVD-A or HDCD compatibility?

I am aware however, that the DV137 (I think it is?) is a universal player and was one of the few in the £800-£1000 bracket to be so, along with Denon's 3930 and NAD's T585. What was the driver behind this development and would you emulate the Marantz step of including SACD on an audio only player (their SA7001 players) to cater for that market?

As a consumer, I was delighted to see these three players turning up (along with Oppo's 980 unit at the budget end) - it drove me to distraction that no manufacturer catered for this!
 

Gwyndy

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Going back to the original post

Taksinridgeback:
My information may not be accurate, but apparently such great names as KEF, Wharfedale, Mission, Mordaunt Short, Audiolab, and some B&W, Arcam and Quad are no longer made in the UK.

Now, I'm not xenophobic, nor am I arguing about the quality, it's just that I wanted to support the local industry.

If memory serves me correctly of those brands mentioned by Taksinridgeback many are actually Chinese owned companies anyway: KEF, Hong Kong-based Gold Peak
Wharfedale, Mission, Audiolab and Quad are all part of International Audio Group,

Chinese ownership is likely to lead to some degree of Chinese manufacturing, simply because it lowers costs leadeing to either cheaper products or more competitive products- if you want to see evidence of the latter look at the Linn majik review, would have been good at Cambridge Audio's £750 840A price band way too expensive at £1500.

As newly industrilised nations rise, we will see greater transfer of once famous national brands into foreign ownership (mainly Brazilian, Chinese, Indian and Russian), it happened when Britain became the leading industrial nation in the 19th Century and when America took Britain's place in the 20th.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
the record spot:John Arcam Dawson:

The full story behind the Delta 100 cassette deck is a long one - perhaps for another time - the short version is that this first design didn't really make money despite its £850 price tag. It was one of the first units in the market with Dolby S - a very powerful analogue noise reduction system - and with good tape and not too demanding music it was difficult to tell a CD and the taped copy apart. Unfortunately this time also saw the launch of the ill fated DCC (digital compact cassette) by Phillips and Matsushita and its rival MD (Mini Disc) by Sony, and our unit was caught in the crossfire as it were. In particular Sony used its manufacture of the Dolby S chipsets (they were the sole supplier at the time) to drive down cassette deck costs to try to kill DCC - they succeeded by the way - and we could never get economy of scale we needed with a follow up Alpha class machine because the complete decks were sold on the market at well below the cost of us buying mass volume of kits of parts. So it goes. I still have one by the way
emotion-1.gif


And thanks for the praise on the Alpha 5/6 series - a range which really put us on the map and which were made (in the UK) in very large numbers - this was before Chinese based manufacture led to a catastrophic fall in prices (from our point of view!) as with DVD players and so on.

John Dawson

Thanks for the detailed reply John. It does raise a question though thinking about the DCC and MD saga of the day and more recently the hi-res audio disappointments of DVD-A & SACD orthe HD Blu-Ray face-off.

As a manufacturer, what is your (or Arcam's) take on developing a - for instance - SACD compatible player for market? What would influence the decision making within an organisation that would lead you to go with SACD over DVD-A or HDCD compatibility?

I am aware however, that the DV137 (I think it is?) is a universal player and was one of the few in the £800-£1000 bracket to be so, along with Denon's 3930 and NAD's T585. What was the driver behind this development and would you emulate the Marantz step of including SACD on an audio only player (their SA7001 players) to cater for that market?

As a consumer, I was delighted to see these three players turning up (along with Oppo's 980 unit at the budget end) - it drove me to distraction that no manufacturer catered for this!

These format wars seem to occur quite regularly and they are usually
disasters for all parties. As a relatively small company which
nevertheless likes to design its own products from the ground up this
affects Arcam particularly badly, as we are expected by the marketplace
to support multiple rival formats and that inevitably hugely
complicates the product design.

A big driver for us is always
the availability of a suitable SOC (system on a chip) IC around which
to base the design. These are inevitably very software heavy and most
IC vendors will simply not support companies of Arcam's size. In the
case of the formats you mention above we have built up a long term
relationship with Zoran, one of the biggest DVD chip vendors - we are,
if you like, Zoran's boutique customer. When Zoran eventually produced
a family of parts that supported SACD then we too (after lots of
development work) were able to include it in our offerings - if they
had not done this it would have been really difficult to do anything in
this space with another chip vendor (e.g. Mediatek) because of the
constraints mentioned above.

Finally we do now also have a
CD/SACD player - the CD37 - based of course on the Zoran platform which
earlier spawned the DV135/137/139 family of universal DVD/CD/DVD-A/SACD
players and the Solo Movie designs. This is especially popular in Asia
where SACD is still a semi-alive format.

I hope this necessarily abbreviated reply helps cast a little light on a very complex situation.

John
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Does it matter? In the short term I think not, a product developed in the UK and manufactured in the P.R.C willÿprobablyÿbe superior to one manufactured in the UK(you just can't argue with the cost savings). ÿBut what about the next generation of products, its all well and good to say that the R & D will stay in the UK, but where are you going to get the engineers! when I worked for Bae Systems the average age of engineers was hitting 50, with no sign of it changing soon. ÿStudying engineering at university there were more Malaysians and Greeks than there were Brits, and thats in Sussex.

Who knows maybe its all going to work out great, we'll all be going out and buying equipment developed and built in China, andÿI'mÿsure that a richer more powerful P.R.C will be a good thing for the world (don't mentionÿTiananmen Square, forced abortions, mass executions, Tibet, etc, etc.) ÿ

ÿ
 

JoelSim

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John Arcam Dawson:drummerman:
No trade interests whatsoever John. What is your role within Arcam?

I co-founded the company many many years ago in a college room in Cambridge as "Amplification & Recording". Since then I have worked in nearly ever major role in the company at some time or other. These days I have handed over day to day management and I tend to do "futurology", product planning and some hardware electronic design, the big part of which will see the daylight in the not too distant future.

ÿ

My hero
emotion-11.gif


ÿ
 

JoelSim

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John Arcam Dawson:
the record spot:I read with interest in "a rival publication" Arcam produced a cassette deck some years back - turned out around 400 units and left it at that. Any reason why the company didn't pursue the medium, or were the pressures of turning out the highly successful Arcam Alpha 5/6 amp and CD players (I'm guessing it was around this time?) too demanding on the production side?(BTW - I still have my Alpha 5 - a strong amp to this day IMO)EDIT - Thanks for taking the time to answer our queries too John - very much appreciated.

The full story behind the Delta 100 cassette deck is a long one - perhaps for another time - the short version is that this first design didn't really make money despite its £850 price tag. It was one of the first units in the market with Dolby S - a very powerful analogue noise reduction system - and with good tape and not too demanding music it was difficult to tell a CD and the taped copy apart. Unfortunately this time also saw the launch of the ill fated DCC (digital compact cassette) by Phillips and Matsushita and its rival MD (Mini Disc) by Sony, and our unit was caught in the crossfire as it were. In particular Sony used its manufacture of the Dolby S chipsets (they were the sole supplier at the time) to drive down cassette deck costs to try to kill DCC - they succeeded by the way - and we could never get economy of scale we needed with a follow up Alpha class machine because the complete decks were sold on the market at well below the cost of us buying mass volume of kits of parts. So it goes. I still have one by the way
emotion-1.gif


And thanks for the praise on the Alpha 5/6 series - a range which really put us on the map and which were made (in the UK) in very large numbers - this was before Chinese based manufacture led to a catastrophic fall in prices (from our point of view!) as with DVD players and so on.

John Dawsonÿ

Oh memories, my degree dissertation was on DCC vs MD, and I found that neither would win either, even then (although I wanted both to win in my heart).

ÿ
 

JoelSim

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Anyway enough of the hero stuff. John, I'm going round to another member's house on Thursday to completely pillory his Primare/PMC system and that will be reciprocated at some point in the not too distant future - any tips on where I could tell him his system is 'ok but not up there with the best'.

I'm only joking, actually just looking forward to a glass of Fleurie and some spag bol to be honest. I think most of these decent systems are going to sound terrific and I'm really interested to hear the difference in take of his system to mine.

However, I'd be really interested to hear from the horse's mouth about how you set about creating Arcam gear, ie what's your mission statement? What do you personally look for when listening to music? What sort of music/mood do you feel Arcam really do shine with?

I have my own views on this and to cut a long story short I find guitar and voice are the real strengths; in fact in my living room which is mainly for nighttime listening my Dali's are very mellow with my Arcams, daytimes in the kitchen/back garden my ProAc Tablettes are much more forward, it's very interesting to hear two similar priced speakers give a different view on the music, albeit the Dalis are much more sensitive and noticeably louder at the same volume.

Out of interest what in your opinion, are the differences between CD92 an CD192?ÿ

I appreciate if you don't want to divulge too much.

ÿ

ÿ
 

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