Mark Rose-Smith said:
I also listened to the PMC Twenty 22 with expensive Naim pre/power amps on several occasions. For me the same conclusion, the Kef is better in almost all areas.
I also listened to the PMC Twenty 22 with expensive Naim pre/power amps on several occasions. For me the same conclusion, the Kef is better in almost all areas.
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
Well-known member
manicm
Well-known member
davidf said:
Perhaps, but the AE1 is about half the price, and allows for greater streaming flexibility because it's purely analogue. It will be equally at home with a Bluesound Node 2, or a higher-end preamp/streamer/dac like the CA CXN. And while not as powerful as the LS50W it still has watts to spare. I think it's a great choice.
Also, forgive my ignorance, but how many high res/cd res files is one going to store on their phone if a buyer will only use Bluetooth? Or are they only going to use MP3?
davidf
Well-known member
I suppose KEF are just covering as many possibilities as possible - thise who do plug in an external source may need hi-res capable DACs. But yes, those using a phone or a tablet as a source are only likely to use anything up to CD quality. Although I have known customers to pop in with hi-res stuff on their phones!manicm said:
manicm said:
The AE1 may be half the price initially, but no longer so if you add a £700 streamer.
Regarding also the power difference, the AE1s 50wpc may be sufficient, but when you consider the LS50s 230wpc it's easy to see where the extra premium is coming from.
Bluetooth is not intended to be the primary source, it's a convenience added to an already very capable package.
AEJim
Well-known member
*50w Class A/B per drive unit. 100w per channel. They will go extremely loud with minimal distortion, we didn't feel any more would be beneficial for this particular speaker. You'd only really add cost, power consumption and the need for cooling fins on the amp.
Just correcting the details, not here to derail the thread or discussion on merits of any particular method/sound!
Just correcting the details, not here to derail the thread or discussion on merits of any particular method/sound!
ChrisIRL said:
Dont be fooled by the power rating
My cheap little jbls are only 40 w and they go loud
Increased volume capability is a characteristic I have found less obvious with increased amp power. Going from a well designed 50w amp to well designed 200w+ amp can dramatically improve soundstage, detail, bass control, dynamics and sense of realism. It just all becomes effortless.
Personally I rather have it than not, and my point really was comparing prices of these two speakers is not like for like. I'm sure the AE1s are very good but with the LS50s you get more out of box. To price compare isn't fair to either.
Personally I rather have it than not, and my point really was comparing prices of these two speakers is not like for like. I'm sure the AE1s are very good but with the LS50s you get more out of box. To price compare isn't fair to either.
AEJim said:*50w Class A/B per drive unit. 100w per channel. They will go extremely loud with minimal distortion, we didn't feel any more would be beneficial for this particular speaker. You'd only really add cost, power consumption and the need for cooling fins on the amp.
Just correcting the details, not here to derail the thread or discussion on merits of any particular method/sound!
An important correction and thanks for pointing it out.
As you mention it's what's best for the design and what's appropriate is important. The other poster price compared but the feature set of the two designs are not like for like.
manicm
Well-known member
ChrisIRL said:
The AE1 is actually 100w/channel - each speaker has a 50w amp for each driver. That is ample. I like the AE1 because it allows one to change the source components should you wish to - better streamer/better DAC etc.
radiorog
Well-known member
Nope, but I'm thinking they could be fantastic. But at over £4k , they'd better be. You'd have to start a new thread to get any serious answers though, and I'd doubt if many people have heard them yet.Helmut80 said:
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
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So a bake off between the kefs and the ae1 with a £1000 pre amp/dac to even up the price.....mmmmm what would be the most ergonomically and musically satisfying combination in a small to medium sized listening room....obviously I know none of us have heard any combos but hypothesis is a great start.lol.
To be clear about earlier posts, I'm not knocking the AE1s at all, I've never heard them. I chose the LS50s as they offer a real last stop option and were the whole reason I went in this direction i.e. end of box count and the box swapping that often comes with it. To go active and still require boxes besides sources would defeat the point for me.
Ive had many seperates systems. Speakers and electronics from Naim, PMC, ATC, Dynaudio, Rega, Sonus Faber, Arcam, Chord, JMR, Kef, B&W and Cyrus.
Simplifying my system was the goal but what I wasn't expecting was how much the LS50 wireless would destroy even my best past systems in terms of sound quality. To me it's not a bit of an improvement, a more enjoyable presentation, but they're a real and obvious jump to next level type of improvement. Across the board everything is clearly better. As davidf implied earlier, they're not a million miles away from a £10k Kef reference 1 system, not that I'd know. The AE1s with a preamp/ dac would have to perform spectacularly well to match, let alone better the Kefs. Perhaps they do.
The DSP allows for sound adjustment that not only works for location, but for mood and recording quality to an extent too. It's very addictive. I can run them anywhere from pin drop analytical to warm and musical. I've calmed down and settled for something between the two. Cable swappers would love it, and with changes you can actually hear!
My system is now as simple as can be; TT phono preamp to the RCA input. Apollo r CD player to the optical input. idevice to the USB input using a cck. Soon to have Spotify connect built in as well as Tidal. Bluetooth for lazy casual listening. An Ethernet input if your network wifi signal is unstable and you use a NAS. Source to speaker, simple. Or no wired source if you prefer.
To move my system to other rooms involves moving two speakers, that's it, done. Bluetooth in the kitchen, perfectly acceptable sound, great in fact.
It wasn't all greatness though, for the first week or so the bass was boomy, even on the lowest setting. I was quite worried they wouldn't work out. Running in time is critical with these however, 20 to 30 hours in and the bass is near perfect. Maybe the double whammy of running in new speakers and new amps? Make sure if you demo they've been well run in.
So if you want a full simplifying of your system, along with exceptional sound quality I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the Kefs. I got mine for £1700 too, I'm not the only one from what I've read online. Nice cherry on top!
Ive had many seperates systems. Speakers and electronics from Naim, PMC, ATC, Dynaudio, Rega, Sonus Faber, Arcam, Chord, JMR, Kef, B&W and Cyrus.
Simplifying my system was the goal but what I wasn't expecting was how much the LS50 wireless would destroy even my best past systems in terms of sound quality. To me it's not a bit of an improvement, a more enjoyable presentation, but they're a real and obvious jump to next level type of improvement. Across the board everything is clearly better. As davidf implied earlier, they're not a million miles away from a £10k Kef reference 1 system, not that I'd know. The AE1s with a preamp/ dac would have to perform spectacularly well to match, let alone better the Kefs. Perhaps they do.
The DSP allows for sound adjustment that not only works for location, but for mood and recording quality to an extent too. It's very addictive. I can run them anywhere from pin drop analytical to warm and musical. I've calmed down and settled for something between the two. Cable swappers would love it, and with changes you can actually hear!
My system is now as simple as can be; TT phono preamp to the RCA input. Apollo r CD player to the optical input. idevice to the USB input using a cck. Soon to have Spotify connect built in as well as Tidal. Bluetooth for lazy casual listening. An Ethernet input if your network wifi signal is unstable and you use a NAS. Source to speaker, simple. Or no wired source if you prefer.
To move my system to other rooms involves moving two speakers, that's it, done. Bluetooth in the kitchen, perfectly acceptable sound, great in fact.
It wasn't all greatness though, for the first week or so the bass was boomy, even on the lowest setting. I was quite worried they wouldn't work out. Running in time is critical with these however, 20 to 30 hours in and the bass is near perfect. Maybe the double whammy of running in new speakers and new amps? Make sure if you demo they've been well run in.
So if you want a full simplifying of your system, along with exceptional sound quality I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the Kefs. I got mine for £1700 too, I'm not the only one from what I've read online. Nice cherry on top!
ChrisIRL said:
Nah...they wouldn't
Half of what attracts the true devoted cable disciples to their obsession is the faith element of it: believing in the differences they hear when everyone around them says there can't be any. Finely tailoring a speaker's EQ with DSP doesn't cut it. Nor does a system where by its nature you can't try seven thousand different combinations of source and amp to get it just right. Fit-and-forget all in ones like active speakers are probably the serial-tweakers' worst nightmare (though I guess they can satisfy their craze a little bit by forever tweaking the DSP settings.)I think that is rubbish major they will satisfy the cable lover and serial tweeker if they are good enough simple as that.
Can always upgrade the power cables so cable lovers need not worry
Can always upgrade the power cables so cable lovers need not worry
ellisdj said:
No. It's no good telling the likes of our own beloved CJSF* and those of his ilk to buy a fit-and-forget digital system. Part of their enjoyment is the endless tweakery, upgrading and box-swapping, some of which to me is in the realms of "jesus get a life and just listen to the music for christ's sake", but if it floats their boat, what harm is it doing.
*Miss him posting on the forum. He gradually posted less and less after Hazel fell ill then died, and at the same time stopped much of the tweaking and experimenting which brought him much pleasure. True gent, passionate hifi enthusiast and businessman, in that order (many in the trade get those the wrong way round these days) who rarely revealed his true identity, but will always be remembered by me as the man who invented my favourite speaker stands.
Electro
Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
I also miss him, I did not engage with him much on the forum or anywhere else but I just seemed to feel a connection with him in some way.
I hope he is Ok and wish him well.
Andrewjvt said:
Foundation. I bought a pair in the late 80s to support my series 2 Wharfedale Diamonds. Cost me about half the price of the speakers, and were mass-loaded single-column stands. They introduced me to what a huge difference decent supports could make to the sound, hence my favourite. 'CJSF' is Cliff Stone, the founder of Foundation. He sold the business a couple of decades ago. I don't think I'm blowing his cover because he revealed his true identity a couple of times, but I don't think it was widely known.
davidf
Well-known member
Single column, mass loaded stands can be detrimental to sound quality with some speakers too though, it's just a case of trial and error to see which works with any specific speaker. From general use, I prefer lighter, open frame type stands.
nopiano
Well-known member
I still have the version of his stands that Celestion badged for the SL600s (which I won at a HiFi Show, the speakers that is). I've not had much opportunity to try them with anything else, as I've not bought any stand mounters since, but I'm too attached to sell them! Maybe they'll suit the LS50s I hanker for, though I've seen the very nice custom stands KEF recommend, and they look very neat.MajorFubar said:
manicm
Well-known member
davidf said:
My old MA RX1s never sounded better than on my sturdy bedside pedestals - I'm not joking. That was temporary until I had to surrender them for boss lady, and have since become quite cynical about speaker stands which I do use.
manicm
Well-known member
Back on topic. I admit the LS50Ws are great value, even compared to the AE1 Active. David please confirm they can stream from a server/NAS?
davidf
Well-known member
The main thing is that they're stable. They don't necessarily need to weigh a ton, but mass does help some speakers. Mine are currently sitting on a pair of IKEA TV stands that sit either side of my centrally placed sub - the tables are relatively lightweight - although not the sturdiest - but they still sound great on them (with some Auralex Mopads). Can they sound better with a dedicated stand? More than likely, but I can't fit the stands in at the moment.manicm said:
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