-
Is OLED burn-in a problem? We want your input on one of TV’s hottest topics!
nopiano
Well-known member
- Feb 15, 2009
- 4,209
- 3,827
- 33,570
David will be able to elaborate, but I'd say Ref 1s sounded like floorstanders, and project a much larger sound stage. Leagues away in the right system but more demanding of set up and ancillaries.inbox4 said:
The LS50w still sound like amazing monitors with exceptional power and presence.
The Ref 1s I heard were powered by a Hegel integrated amp.
davidf
Well-known member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,459
- 1,283
- 21,070
When you look at the emerging generation of teens who are growing up now, very few want separates. They, and their future children, are being, and will be brought up with wireless speakers, soundbars, phones, and voice control gadgets. Sticking a huge rack of separates with big speakers in front of them won't impress, but tell them they can tell a little box to play JayZ and they'll wet themselves. The hi-fi industry needs to incorporate this technology, or at least be able to accommodate it if it wants future generations to take any notice at all (the only drawback is that small manufacturers will have to pay licenses to large corporations who produce these gadgety fads, lining their pockets and bumping up product prices). It IS the way things are going, so more manufacturers will produce -all-in-one solutions and wireless speakers, although it doesn't seem to stop speaker manufacturers producing wardrobes or electronics manufacturers producing "one box for one job" separates stacks. I'm not interested in the latter. In the past, a box that did more than one job was usually a compromise on one or both sides, but nowadays, things are so good that that's a thing of the past. Personally, I'm generally avoiding boxes that only do one thing, unless they do it so well they can't be ignored.ellisdj said:
I'm not sure whether all this could be described as a "hook". I mean, all of these "lifestyle" type products are usually out there to further the company name, and products like Muso have done that for Naim, but how many people buying small wireless speakers or multi-room products, because of what they are, are likely to buy into the bigger and better stuff from that manufacturer? I'm guessing a majority won't.
davidf
Well-known member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,459
- 1,283
- 21,070
In some ways yes, but with the capabilities of the Reference 1s, I'd still take the 1s. The downside of that is that you'll need to spend not far off the same price again in electronics to make them really sing, pushing the price nearer to £10k. For those willing to chase that, they will be rewarded, but for those that just don't have big enough pockets, the LS50 Wireless plays a damn good second place.inbox4 said:
Its good the industry is moving obviously for its stability and growth. It will be obvious how well its working by how many younger generations visits shows i feel.
By hook I think people when they are into the hobby and want to chase better sound but are not active enough to go and demo alternatives will naturally migrate up the same company product line.
With the mindset i like this I am bound to like the better version more.
I have done that and always think like that.
I see it a lot as well.
I thought thats why manufacturers have lines to attract people in a different price points and offer them obvious upgrade / improvement options.
Why mainstream speaker companies now make headphones to encourage i like these headphones i am bound to like the speakers.
This is not a criticism more an observation from what i see
By hook I think people when they are into the hobby and want to chase better sound but are not active enough to go and demo alternatives will naturally migrate up the same company product line.
With the mindset i like this I am bound to like the better version more.
I have done that and always think like that.
I see it a lot as well.
I thought thats why manufacturers have lines to attract people in a different price points and offer them obvious upgrade / improvement options.
Why mainstream speaker companies now make headphones to encourage i like these headphones i am bound to like the speakers.
This is not a criticism more an observation from what i see
davidf
Well-known member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,459
- 1,283
- 21,070
And also speaker manufacturers making speakers and in-car electronics for car manufacturers (Bowers & Wilkins/Dynaudio/Naim/Meridian etc). B&O are the current suppliers for Aton Martin (I think), so anyone who splashes out the cost of a house to us mere mortals is likely to be impressed by the sound, so are more likely to walk into a B&O store to buy a hi-fi, should they wish to. One speaker manufacturer told me a few years ago that the revenue generated from doing that far surpassed that of domestic hi-fi. If it means they get to carry on producing high quality domestic hi-fi for the few of us that want it, or to be able to develop better stuff, I say it's a good thing.ellisdj said:
nopiano
Well-known member
- Feb 15, 2009
- 4,209
- 3,827
- 33,570
Yes, I'm sure the spin-off and cross-subsidy thing is huge. I recall having a BOSE equipped Audi A6 registered in 1997, and many have followed. I think you can get Burmester in the latest Mercs (mine has a surprisingly good standard system). Not only are Naim present in that field, but I think their monied partner, Focal, are amongst if not the biggest OEM car speaker maker. That must subsidise the cost of those Dalek things -- Diablo Utopia, is it?davidf said:
Less visible, but surely significant in feeding though to hifi, are those with studio lines, like PMC and ATC. Linn do lifestyle stuff, Naim do boomboxes, and back in the heyday, the big Japanese firms did millions of TV's, vacuum cleaners, or video machines to get economies of scale. Just doing purist hifi must be perilous these days, but then maybe it always was.
Thats what made me bring it up - I personally dont want all in one boxes or wireless speakers, no interest in that or syncing my phone to anything.
I want the industry's cream to continue to be developed so that it trickles down to us mere mortals either used or in the more affordable ranges over time.
I dont want the extreme but not rich enthusiast to get forgotten between the all in one boxe that sell quicker and uber high end low volume high margin sales.
So if it takes these types of units to get people into actually what listening to hifi is all about then its great they are being developed I just hope the mid section doesnt dissapear
i.e. I want to be inspired to buy it because it sounds better - not because it sounds the same just in a smaller box if that makes sense
I forgot to put relating that to the wireless ls50 if you think they have bettered them and made them appealing to people with all their music on their phone i suppose they have nailed it really
I want the industry's cream to continue to be developed so that it trickles down to us mere mortals either used or in the more affordable ranges over time.
I dont want the extreme but not rich enthusiast to get forgotten between the all in one boxe that sell quicker and uber high end low volume high margin sales.
So if it takes these types of units to get people into actually what listening to hifi is all about then its great they are being developed I just hope the mid section doesnt dissapear
i.e. I want to be inspired to buy it because it sounds better - not because it sounds the same just in a smaller box if that makes sense
I forgot to put relating that to the wireless ls50 if you think they have bettered them and made them appealing to people with all their music on their phone i suppose they have nailed it really
davidf
Well-known member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,459
- 1,283
- 21,070
Whether a £2k price point is low enough to attract purely phone or tablet users is another matter, but then I suppose they're not competing with cheaper options - KEF are trying to show that a "Bluetooth speaker" can sound amazing, albeit it at a price, and that there is far more to offer with regards to sound quality over the usual sub £500 run of the mill Bluetooth speakers.
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
Well-known member
- Feb 18, 2015
- 59
- 1
- 18,545
So just wondering is it the case that if you connect a £150 Blue Ray/dvd player and then a cd player of say a couple of k...it's going to pretty much sound the same as the internal dac will take over no matter what you hook up to it..be it rca or optical.heck you'll even lose the analogue sound of a turntable if that route is taken.but definitely an interesting option for streamlining a system.
Mark Rose-Smith said:
It's not just a case of using the same DAC. Other factors come into play as well - power supplies, jitter mitigation etc. Before the major updates, Linn's middle and top streamers did employ the same DAC, but there was a clear step up in sound from the middle to top.
In the case of CDP/bdp decks the transport will definitely be a factor as well. And some even believe the lasers. Note Cyrus, and now Marantz have effectively designed their own cd mechanisms for their new flagship CDP/DAC, and that has had to incur considerable cost.
The LS50w seems great, but the AE1 Active seems great value at half the cost, but you have to bring your own streamer/DAC/preamp to the party, which is no hardship really, and allows some flexibility. AE have also emphasised they've made the amp virtually bulletproof, as they explicitly don't want repairs, even from high volume party hogs. I rather like that refreshing attitude and confidence they have in their product, even if they can profit from servicing. They're espousing good old fashioned engineering values and I rather like that.
davidf
Well-known member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,459
- 1,283
- 21,070
For me, the AE actives and the LS50 wireless are two variants on a similar product, but ideally aiming at different people. The AE will appeal to the conventional active fans, and those who are wanting to replace their speakers and power amp with an active speaker (more than likely already have a pre in the system), whereas the KEF will appeal to those who want something even simpler - onboard streaming and TIDAL, and various set up options via the app.
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
Well-known member
- Feb 18, 2015
- 59
- 1
- 18,545
davidf
Well-known member
- May 9, 2017
- 1,459
- 1,283
- 21,070
Not at the moment. TIDAL was chosen for its quality. I did suggest Spotify due to it being the most widely used streaming service worldwide. I'm guessing they could add it as and when they wanted to. I don't know how many streaming services can be added, but I've been suggesting Bandcamp to most manufacturers as you're buying directly from the artist. It's mainly a download site, but there is an app to stream the titles you've purchased.
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
Well-known member
- Feb 18, 2015
- 59
- 1
- 18,545
A bit strange,considering it has been touted as the all singing all dancing no fuss streaming system...to not include all the popular streaming services is a bit of an oversight imo.....I'm not knocking it as I'm seriously considering streamlining my own system but no Spotify connect on board makes me need the use of one of it's precious inputs,either via my arcam ir dac or straight into the optical input(but I want that for my virgin media box) and I also need the rca for my naim cd player.I really don't want to be buying anything to make this work.
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
Well-known member
- Feb 18, 2015
- 59
- 1
- 18,545
Cheers.good to know......now how would they compare to my naim xs/pmc twenty 21's I wonder.......I can't demo any as all sellers seem to be in England and I'm up here in the sticks of Scotland.lol.
Mark Rose-Smith said:
I owned a Naim UnitiLite in combination with the PMC Twenty 22 before i bought the LS50W. No contest. The Kef is better in all areas imo. And a lot cheaper.
hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004
Well-known member
- Feb 18, 2015
- 59
- 1
- 18,545
Good to know Erwin but I reckon the 22's wouldn't be showing there best paired with a unitilite...they need something a bit more.....supernait 2 maybe to get a hint at what they're capable of.But I'm pretty sure from what I've read that the kefs will be at least the equal or better than my nait xs/pmc twenty 21's.which is fine by me.
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram