KEF LS50W review

[davidf]

I always found the Twenty series a little on the light side with regards to bass, so I'm guessing that the KEFs will instantly sound a lot bassier than what you're used to. This should have been catered for in the settings - and I don't mean the two settings buttons on the back. I use mine with the bass on -4.5/5dB. To me, that sounds nicely balanced, and there's plenty of room there for people who would think that sounds bass light. I've got the treble on +0.5dB just to add a bit of sparkle, and I like to hear fine detail - if there was any sign of grain, I wouldn't be adding to it!

From my listening so far, I would find it hard to recommend a separated system at £2k to compete, and would only really recommend separates if someone needs the flexibility. As it stands, just your amplification costs the same as the LS50 Wireless, so whilst some might say that your findings are to be expected, I wouldn't have expected the overall sound to be that different. The lean sound of the PMCs should be negated by the fuller, 'loose' Naim bass. And the one thing I always found with the Twenty series was the slightly grainy treble! Amazing how we all find things different

 

[ChrisIRL]

Something off with that demo, they are literally the opposite of how they were presented to you. As I mentioned the bass can be a bit intense for the first 20 to 30 hours or so, even on the lowest setting. It noticeably settles however and I now use the standard setting. I'm not a bass junkie either, for example SCM11s and your 21s are two of my favourite past speakers.

Another thing that I found a bit disconcerting at first was the phase correction. I used to disable it at the beginning, even after the bass settled. To me it caused a wierd overwhelming full sensation to the sound that possibly caused the sense of muddiness you experienced. After the bass had settled I enabled it again one evening and tweaked the treble and bass a touch. It was like one of those magic eye pictures that finally pop into view, it just all suddenly made sense. I couldn't listen without it now, it makes the sound full and rich without sacrificing any detail, enhances it even. I think it's what brings them to a level of sound quality I just hadn't experienced before so I was a initially a bit thrown. It takes getting used to certainly.

I can also fully appreciate from experience however that going from an excellent and lively Naim/ PMC system to these could be too severe a jump simply because of what you're used to. The Kefs have to be lived for a while and tweaked for your room to get what they do. I had a Rega system between owning these and a Naim/ PMC combo which may have softened the landing

 

[davidf]

Sounds more like badly driven passive LS50s to me!

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I'm sitting watching a you tube dem of the kefs just now..a oriental person with properly miked up nils frahm acoustic version of Keith don't go and that ain't the same speakers I heard today.

 

[davidf]

I'm sitting watching a you tube dem of the kefs just now..a oriental person with properly miked up nils frahm acoustic version of Keith don't go and that ain't the same speakers I heard today.

As I say, your description sounds more like badly driven passive LS50s to me. Certainly doesn't sound right.

 

[nopiano]

"Ha ha . I've just done a wee"

That was the best abbreviation for a heading just back there! Post #166.

Anyway, putting aside my schoolboy mind, I was sorry to read that the dem was a bit of a let down. However, at least you came away feeling happy with what you have!

 

[ChrisIRL]

On a separate note Kef appear to have finally sorted out the terrible app with the latest recent update. I've been enjoying drop out free streaming all evening and no loss of network connection with the speakers. The app now has an auto crash report feature so it seems Kef are finally taking the issues seriously.

The app didn't work on my iPod touch 5g previously either despite claiming compatibility, wouldn't even start up. It now works perfectly.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Mark
Ive read your impressions of the test and can only imagine that something was very very wrong.

A grainy sound can come from an amp that is not suited to the speaker. And this cant be the case in the ls50 actives so wondering what was wrong.

Regards the dm10s i can only imagine that your ears were shocked into the neutrality and this sometimes takes some aclimatization - certainly not a quick demo.

As naim is a caffine product i sugest the test was not a fair reflection.

I not saying you are wrong in your conclusions though as thats what you are used to but the dm10s are far more accurate and less distorted than your system (fact) How you enjoy music is a taste though. I dont mean this as offence.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well David all I can say is lend me a pair of the kefs for a extended home dem....I really do want it to work....I'm not active bashing or anything like that....And I'm not a naim eeee or pmc fanboy...just a lover of music..but the dem I listened to was really not up to scratch and I felt the assistant really didn't want me to buy them.....that'll be a first for me but that was the impression I got . I'm even starting to think he set them up as bad as he could...but why would he do that.He needs to sell stuff even if it's not his cup of tea.I do think I need another chance to listen and tweek because the way you guy's rave about them was frankly as far from the truth as my listening experience was.And we're not talking...that I can't tell the difference between transparency and a bit of colouration...it was like listening to a overgrown ghetto blaster.....oh dear when you really think about it....that's exactly what they are.lol.

 

[ErwinC]

I owned and tested the PMC Twenty.21 (and 22) wiith several Naim amplifiers and now own the LS50W. I really can not understand that the PMC Twenty 21 with your Naim amplification sounds that much better than the LS50W. The KEFs sound so much more natural with a tight and deep bass imo. Perhaps the speakers were new or badly configured? It is my experience that they sound best after about 100 hours of playing and used with their internal streamer.

I always found the 21 very bass-light and missing dynamics at lower levels even with more powerful amplification.

 

[davidf]

Have a read Mark, if you haven't already - see if what you heard resembles my impressions!

https://www.thelittleaudio.company/single-post/review-kef-ls50-wireless-loudspeakers

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I have read your review of them already David.It was partly what got me very interested in the kefs as a do it all (nearly)solution.Unfortunately my experience has not been the same and I am now more inclined to believe that the speakers were not optimally set up.For another dem I'd probably have to travel to England and that's not going to happen.lol.

 

[steve_1979]

I'm pretty sure that they weren't optimally and set up....on stands and in free space and I asked him to change it to close to the wall in the rear settings...but was still off the mark...I'm sure given time with them,they could be made to sound better but the bass seemed to take over and just felt false and the separation of instruments and placement of them just sounded muddled compared to my own system.So I've itched that scratch that I had to hear some actives and I really can't see what the fuss is about....my 19 year old daughter sat in with me also and the wireless speakers thing is more her type of thing having a sonos speaker in her room but even she came away feeling unimpressed . I'm just going to stick with naim kit for now and get myself a superuniti,amp,streamer,dac,radio in a box and I'll hold on to my pmc's.

If they'd have set them up properly for free space, they would either have refused to move them, or set them up again via the app. So my guess is that they'd just popped them on their stands and plugged them in. If they were a bit bassy in free space, they won't stand a chance against a wall. My pair here are about half a foot away from a solid wall. No boom (although I do have a concrete floor, which helps a little). Why does a store not make any effort for someone who has booked a demo? I partly understand if you'd walked in off the street and asked to hear them, but even when that happens, I would always listen to the system in a closed demo room before letting the customer having a listen. This is a £2,000 item (possibly plus stands etc), not cheap, so why aren't customers still being treated this way?! Winds me up.

It boils down to the fact that when set up properly, their balance is excellent, and there shouldn't be any grain to the treble. I was hoping you were going to mention the source - CD? Media server? TIDAL?

How can they expect to sell anything if they don't bother to set them up properly?

 

[davidf]

I have read your review of them already David.It was partly what got me very interested in the kefs as a do it all (nearly)solution.Unfortunately my experience has not been the same and I am now more inclined to believe that the speakers were not optimally set up.

I stand by what I have said about them (or I wouldn't have said it!), so I agree. I have a couple of weeks off at the end of August - you're more than welcome to loan them over that period of time if you like?

For another dem I'd probably have to travel to England and that's not going to happen.lol.

We're not that bad...

 

[CnoEvil]

How can they expect to sell anything if they don't bother to set them up properly?

If you are cynical (like I am).....it's quite possible that they may take the view that their average punter wouldn't know the difference that a good set up can make....or the guy doing the dem didn't have much experience.

 

[chris_bates1974]

Yes, I agree the dealer may have taken a unt on thinking he wouldn't hear a difference, but Mark did state he informed the dealer as to hiw current system. So the dealer knew he was comparing it against some decent kit.

I know we all tend to be very diplomatic on here, but I reckon Mark should name the dealer. Sounds like exactly the kind of awful service that should be avoided at all costs.

(By the way, I've greatly enjoyed this thread - not sure if wireless actives is something I owuld consider, but if I get the chance, I'd certainly have a listen. I found the original LS50 underwhelming - which I suppose explains the Q700 - so I'm interested that the almost universal opinion seems to be that the active wirless are a step change from them.)

 

[luckylion100]

from what I can see there's only one dealer that sell both Kef and AVI North of the border. I could be wrong though. Bad though that two quality products get a less than stellar write up possibly because of a poor demo by a careless dealer.

 

[davidf]

How can they expect to sell anything if they don't bother to set them up properly?

Exactly. £2,000 is a lot of money, and most good quality hi-fi nowadays comes at a premium - this isn't the 70s!

 

[luckylion100]

the dealership that demonstrated the Kef Wireless LS50's to Mark have taken the 'Plug and Play' concept quoted below a little too far and this equates to the lazy setup of demos...

"Whilst some of us relish the challenge of experimenting and finding the perfect combination, KEF have stepped in and done the hard work those who just want to plug and play, and introduced the LS50 Wireless."

By the sounds of forum members here that own the KEF's there's quite a bit of fine tuning required to get reasonable if not optimal performance out of them.

BTW I still have a big issue with the term 'Wireless' with this product. It is an inaccurate description.

 

[davidf]

the dealership that demonstrated the Kef Wireless LS50's to Mark have taken the 'Plug and Play' concept quoted below a little too far and this equates to the lazy setup of demos...

"Whilst some of us relish the challenge of experimenting and finding the perfect combination, KEF have stepped in and done the hard work those who just want to plug and play, and introduced the LS50 Wireless."

By the sounds of forum members here that own the KEF's there's quite a bit of fine tuning required to get reasonable if not optimal performance out of them.

Everything needs quite a bit of fine tuning for "optimal performance", but the basics really aren't that hard. The buttons on the back are the easiest way to set up - obviously I don't know what was done for Mark's demo, so I can't comment, but presumably the 'freespace' setting was chosen when initially set up, and when the speakers were moved near the wall, the 'wall' setting was then chosen. If that last task wasn't performed, then that's ignoring the extreme basics that make them plug and play, and would have made them sound quite bassy, and we all know what bassy speakers sound like - lacking punch and detail, and just sound like boom boxes.

Let's presume the 'wall' setting was chosen - even if they were still too bassy sounding when moved against the wall, all that would be needed is to open up the app, go to speaker settings, and dial the bass back until it sounded much better. Simple!

BTW I still have a big issue with the term 'Wireless' with this product. It is an inaccurate description.

I did initially, as I saw them as an active speaker rather than a "wireless" speaker, but with more understanding of the product, they're not really aimed at the active market.

 

[Andrewjvt]

A true comparison shoukd also be in same room at same time and not off memory.

Ive heard same speakers sound good in one room and **** in another.

I cant imagine dm10s sounding less dynamic and clear than almost anything else with similar driver size etc.

 

[rainsoothe]

isn't lack of gapless playback on them a major oversight, though? I mean, for me, a separate streamer would be mandatory with these.

 

[davidf]

I'm currently playing Jeff Buckley's Grace album, with no boom at all, plenty of detail and presence, and sounding like most speakers don't sound when they're slapped right up against a wall - yup, literally a couple of inches from the brick wall behind them - the only thing stopping them getting any closer are the mains leads. All I've done is took the bass down to -4.5dB.

 

[gowiththeflow]

BTW I still have a big issue with the term 'Wireless' with this product. It is an inaccurate description.

I did initially, as I saw them as an active speaker rather than a "wireless" speaker, but with more understanding of the product, they're not really aimed at the active market.

I have been very interested in these active KEF's, but the term "Wireless" is exactly the opposite of what they are. They need to be connected with multiple wires, with the right hand speaker needing a minimum of 3 cables and up to 5, 6 or 7 seperate wires connected to it if various sources are added.

A comparison with the arrangement Dynaudio have chosen for their Xeo (4 & 6) and Focus XD ranges, puts this into perspective.

The positioning of the LS50W's is to a large degree tied to the location of the input sources (CD, analogue, PC, network connection, external streamer if preferred etc.) and v.v.

In contrast, Dynaudio employ a seperate connecting hub box that can be sited remotely from the speakers (if desired). The speakers can then be positioned in a chosen location and the external electronics (hub, input sources) can be located elsewhere, such as a more suitable location in the room, transmitting wirelessly to the individual speakers. The minimum cabling to the speakers themselves is therefore just the power chords (Focus XD includes other input connection options). This seems to me to be a far more pragmatic way of designing and attempting to market so called "wireless" speakers.

z

 

[YiannisK]

Exciting stuff about the KEFs . However, that 3m ethernet cable is short in my opinion. Does anyone know if longer (properly shielded) ethernet lengths can be used without any loss in SQ?

If one uses stands with cable management then I image a 5m length would be needed. Just wondering if this will impact the sound in any way...