Is vibration over rated in solid state electronics

[Pedro]

We had a small earthquake near Lisbon this morning (4.3 on the Richter scale). If only I had one of those esoteric platforms or feet for my stereo!

 

[CnoEvil]

Interesting. I would consider this overkill. if you have those pads isolating your speakers from the stands why would filling the stands make any differnce?

I would have thought a better, and cheaper, approach would be to actually couple speakers and stands together as one unit and then simply isolate this (as you have from base of stand down to floor). Have you tried this option?

APOLOGIES: I missed reading the last part of your post..... I would favour this approach but whatever works for you....... ;-)

The LS50 cabinet has very good vibration/damping control, and I found this just gave me the best performance.

My little LS50s, which make up the L&R in my AV system, are often used for 2 channel use (ie. when I don't want to stoke up the furnace in my Class A amp). They are in a large room of about 14' x 22' x 11' (carpeted with soft furnishing and walls with Lath and Plaster)...and my rather OTT arrangement gives a surprisingly weighty presentation....which might be too much in a smaller room.

The problem with my particular room, is the bass seemd to be "sucked" into the large space under the floor. When I first got my 205/2s, they sounded very lean and bass light (surprising with 2 x 8" Bass drivers).

After my Heath Robinson isolation solution, the effect was so dramatic, that when I tried it out, herself came up from the kitchen to see what the deep thumping noise was...no effect can be deemed real unless the other half hears it. *biggrin*

 

[CnoEvil]

CnoEvil and Al

I've just moved into a new house with suspended wooden floors.

I have Partington broadsides. Please tell me best set up as above

I have not fitted the spikes yet or filled the columns with atabites. Thanks

There is a bit of trial and error involved.

Your main goal is to prevent vibrations being transmitted through the stands, into the floor.....so:

1. Filling - Fill (or part fill) the stands with a material which will absorb vibrations. I agree with AE....you don't need to add lots of extra mass with Atabites (which could make the sound a bit bass heavy and plodding)....your stands are already very heavy.

IMO. Rice is a good choice, as it won't add lots of extra mass; kiln-dried sand (which you may have to further dry in the oven) also works very well. It's what I use, but I wanted to add a bit of extra mass to my stands. With sand you have to experiment with how far to fill (make sure you weigh it, so you have the same amount in each stand.

2. Base platform - I use 2 Granite Worktop savers under each stand.....it gives the option of putting a Sorbothane sheet between the two if have a very ingrained problem.

3. Bottom of stand - I use 4 thin slabs of Blu-Tac (in each corner), to stick the bottom of the stand to the Granite (so no spikes). This makes the whole thing very stable....much more so than spikes into spike-shoes sliding about on the Granite.

4. Bottom of Speaker - I use Valhalla Technology isolation pads (1 in each corner) between the speaker and the stand, plus 1 blob of Blu-Tac (centre of speaker), to stop the speaker sliding off. You choose the Valhalla product based on the weight of the speaker.

http://valhalla-technology.dk/en/3-speaker-feet

This is trial and error....you might, for example be happy with 1 Granite slab under each speaker and no Valhalla Pads. Sometimes you want to dump as much vibration from the speaker as possible into the Stand (so it can be absorbed); and sometimes it works better to isolate the speaker from the stand as much as possible.

(I use Auralex under my Floorstanders)

EDIT: Just be aware of the height of your Tweeters in relation to your seating position, if you are raising the height of the speakers. My Kefs have Uni-Q, so less of an issue.

 

[Andrewjvt]

Al
CNO
Vlad

When i get round to it ill let you know how it goes

 

[Al ears]

Interesting. I would consider this overkill. if you have those pads isolating your speakers from the stands why would filling the stands make any differnce?

I would have thought a better, and cheaper, approach would be to actually couple speakers and stands together as one unit and then simply isolate this (as you have from base of stand down to floor). Have you tried this option?

APOLOGIES: I missed reading the last part of your post..... I would favour this approach but whatever works for you....... ;-)

The LS50 cabinet has very good vibration/damping control, and I found this just gave me the best performance.

My little LS50s, which make up the L&R in my AV system, are often used for 2 channel use (ie. when I don't want to stoke up the furnace in my Class A amp). They are in a large room of about 14' x 22' x 11' (carpeted with soft furnishing and walls with Lath and Plaster)...and my rather OTT arrangement gives a surprisingly weighty presentation....which might be too much in a smaller room.

The problem with my particular room, is the bass seemd to be "sucked" into the large space under the floor. When I first got my 205/2s, they sounded very lean and bass light (surprising with 2 x 8" Bass drivers).

After my Heath Robinson isolation solution, the effect was so dramatic, that when I tried it out, herself came up from the kitchen to see what the deep thumping noise was...no effect can be deemed real unless the other half hears it. *biggrin*

...and there was me thinking your setup was to prevent this from escaping.. ;-)

 

[Gazzip]

As ive read the whole thread last night I have 2 questions.

If the dac is effected by vibrations (causing jitters) but most probably inaudible...

1. How come in other threads people have claimed vibration pads/feet have changed or focused the sound so that the user can clearly hear a difference? Please explain

2 wherethe hell are all these vibrations comming from?

I think there is an opportunity here to make and sell audiophile vibration meters to test vibration on equipment with avionic/military grade components

1. Some people in this thread claim the jitter is inaudible. I for one think it is audible and I am by no means alone.

2. The air (airborne soundwaves from your music) and the structure of your property (impact vibration from your music).

It saddens me that so much scorn is poured on these types of products. Issues with vibration in all equipment, both solid state and otherwise, is extremely well known and scientifically documented. The simple and obvious reason that mitigating measures such as this are not always included as factory fit items by lower/mid end manufacturers is because the cost of including them vs the tiny gain in audible improvement is not worth it to them or their customers, most of whom are not "audiophiles" (God I hate that word...). Why would you put £1000 worth of StillPoints on a £179 Denon DM40? You wouldn't now would you.

Audiophile (there it goes again) tweaks are usually about mitigation of unwanted artifacts. Preventing as well as possible vibration, jitter, electrical noise, RF interference etc. Mitigate enough of these "inaudible" issues and the sum of many small improvements may make an audible improvement, or so the theory goes.

I don't want to offend anybody on here (but I know I am going to with this statement, so sorry in advance), but most of your systems are simply not revealing enough to benefit from such small improvements, and your listening spaces are not acoustically up to it either.

Yes we know you have a nice expensive hifi (you may also have more money than common sense regarding hifi) but please explain me what is the signal to noise ratio of your dac? Ive looked and they don't reveal it.

So please explain how my benchmark dac 3 with one of the best signal to noise ratios of almost any dac with beyer dynamic headphones would not be revealing enough? Ive played the drums on the casework while playing and I've heard nothing bad. Ive also heard mistakes in certain songs that wernt meant to be in the mix so how come i can hear this on my cheap non revealing system?

Also on your main speakers are you using a special tweeter that only your speaker has (to make it better revealing) than the cheaper pmc book shelf monitors? Then is it only bass extention your gaining over smaller but equally quality monitors?

Just saying a system is not as revealing because of cost is dumb. Not saying you dont have a good setup though id want it

Andrew, c'mon mate. I didn't suggest for a second that more expensive = more revealing. I simply stated that listening to systems at the budget end of the spectrum with expensive anti-vibration measures in place, and then publicly slating them as Snake Oil because they are not getting positive results, is not a fair test.

We have corresponed outside the forum so I know you are a bright guy. I am genuinely surprised therefore that you buy in to the piffel spouted by supposed scientists on the forum who state that tapping a pen or finger on top of a component is some kind of litmus test for microphonia. It is not, and those that pedal this nonsense are as guilty of scientific Snake Oil as the power cord manufacturers that they vilify on a daily basis. You might get a result from a turntable or a valve amp if you do this but you won't get a result from anything else. Why not? It is not because the solid state components inside are in some way impervious to vibrations. It is because smacking a pen on the casework of your amp or DAC does not induce a sustained frequency to which components can resonate. A sustained 20Hz to 200Hz thrumming through your amp or DAC as a bassline, kickdrum or wind instrument may however hit the critical frequencies required to make caps generate electrical charges or the DAC resonators in your oscillators to, well, resonate! In a DAC this may lead to PM which may lead to jitter which may or may not be audible is all I have really said.

I have to say that having a pop at my system and the money I spend on it is a bit out of order. I have only recently put my system signature back on my profile because I got random abuse for declaring my system (and unavoidably its value) previously. For the record I am not a particularly wealthy guy. I choose to spend my pin money on hifi as opposed to cars, holidays, clothes and going out for expensive meals. I nearly always buy second hand and I try not to waste my money, so please try not to make it personal... *smile*

 

[ellisdj]

I like to spend Gazzips Pin money as well - he has me to blame for a lot of his recent spendings...

 

[Vladimir]

Andrew, c'mon mate. I didn't suggest for a second that more expensive = more revealing. I simply stated that listening to systems at the budget end of the spectrum with expensive anti-vibration measures in place, and then publicly slating them as Snake Oil because they are not getting positive results, is not a fair test.

We have corresponed outside the forum so I know you are a bright guy. I am genuinely surprised therefore that you buy in to the piffel spouted by supposed scientists on the forum who state that tapping a pen or finger on top of a component is some kind of litmus test for microphonia. It is not, and those that pedal this nonsense are as guilty of scientific Snake Oil as the power cord manufacturers that they vilify on a daily basis. You might get a result from a turntable or a valve amp if you do this but you won't get a result from anything else. Why not? It is not because the solid state components inside are in some way impervious to vibrations. It is because smacking a pen on the casework of your amp or DAC does not induce a sustained frequency to which components can resonate. A sustained 20Hz to 200Hz thrumming through your amp or DAC as a bassline, kickdrum or wind instrument may however hit the critical frequencies required to make caps generate electrical charges or the DAC resonators in your oscillators to, well, resonate! In a DAC this may lead to PM which may lead to jitter which may or may not be audible is all I have really said.

Navigation systems in trains, cars, planes, satelites etc. can function with high precision regardless of these vibrations in much higher levels. However, daft old men with diminished hearing in their living rooms playing Steely Dan can't.

 

[Gazzip]

Andrew, c'mon mate. I didn't suggest for a second that more expensive = more revealing. I simply stated that listening to systems at the budget end of the spectrum with expensive anti-vibration measures in place, and then publicly slating them as Snake Oil because they are not getting positive results, is not a fair test.

We have corresponed outside the forum so I know you are a bright guy. I am genuinely surprised therefore that you buy in to the piffel spouted by supposed scientists on the forum who state that tapping a pen or finger on top of a component is some kind of litmus test for microphonia. It is not, and those that pedal this nonsense are as guilty of scientific Snake Oil as the power cord manufacturers that they vilify on a daily basis. You might get a result from a turntable or a valve amp if you do this but you won't get a result from anything else. Why not? It is not because the solid state components inside are in some way impervious to vibrations. It is because smacking a pen on the casework of your amp or DAC does not induce a sustained frequency to which components can resonate. A sustained 20Hz to 200Hz thrumming through your amp or DAC as a bassline, kickdrum or wind instrument may however hit the critical frequencies required to make caps generate electrical charges or the DAC resonators in your oscillators to, well, resonate! In a DAC this may lead to PM which may lead to jitter which may or may not be audible is all I have really said.

Navigation systems in trains, cars, planes, satelites etc. can function with high precision regardless of these vibrations in much higher levels. However, daft old men with diminished hearing in their living rooms playing Steely Dan can't.

Nobody said that audio DACs arent operating at a high level of precision, even with jitter present. The issue is that slight deviations in audio precision may be audibly noticeable and therefore an issue, whereas a plane putting its wheels down 5mm away from where it should have done so is not noticable and is not an issue. What kind of comparison are you trying to make here Vladimir?

 

[Gazzip]

I like to spend Gazzips Pin money as well - he has me to blame for a lot of his recent spendings...

Yes you do, and yes I do! *smile*

 

[Vladimir]

Andrew, c'mon mate. I didn't suggest for a second that more expensive = more revealing. I simply stated that listening to systems at the budget end of the spectrum with expensive anti-vibration measures in place, and then publicly slating them as Snake Oil because they are not getting positive results, is not a fair test.

We have corresponed outside the forum so I know you are a bright guy. I am genuinely surprised therefore that you buy in to the piffel spouted by supposed scientists on the forum who state that tapping a pen or finger on top of a component is some kind of litmus test for microphonia. It is not, and those that pedal this nonsense are as guilty of scientific Snake Oil as the power cord manufacturers that they vilify on a daily basis. You might get a result from a turntable or a valve amp if you do this but you won't get a result from anything else. Why not? It is not because the solid state components inside are in some way impervious to vibrations. It is because smacking a pen on the casework of your amp or DAC does not induce a sustained frequency to which components can resonate. A sustained 20Hz to 200Hz thrumming through your amp or DAC as a bassline, kickdrum or wind instrument may however hit the critical frequencies required to make caps generate electrical charges or the DAC resonators in your oscillators to, well, resonate! In a DAC this may lead to PM which may lead to jitter which may or may not be audible is all I have really said.

Navigation systems in trains, cars, planes, satelites etc. can function with high precision regardless of these vibrations in much higher levels. However, daft old men with diminished hearing in their living rooms playing Steely Dan can't.

Nobody said that audio DACs arent operating at a high level of precision, even with jitter present. The issue is that slight deviations in audio precision may be audibly noticeable and therefore an issue, whereas a plane putting its wheels down 5mm away from where it should have done so is not noticable and is not an issue. What kind of comparison are you trying to make here Vladimir?

DACs have jitter error correction circuitry and almost all are now asynchronius. It's a non issue. Daft old man should buy another Rolex and not worry about DACs and vibration. People with Aspergers or highly functional autism can't help themselves, so we can't reason those from being scammed.

 

[Gazzip]

Andrew, c'mon mate. I didn't suggest for a second that more expensive = more revealing. I simply stated that listening to systems at the budget end of the spectrum with expensive anti-vibration measures in place, and then publicly slating them as Snake Oil because they are not getting positive results, is not a fair test.

We have corresponed outside the forum so I know you are a bright guy. I am genuinely surprised therefore that you buy in to the piffel spouted by supposed scientists on the forum who state that tapping a pen or finger on top of a component is some kind of litmus test for microphonia. It is not, and those that pedal this nonsense are as guilty of scientific Snake Oil as the power cord manufacturers that they vilify on a daily basis. You might get a result from a turntable or a valve amp if you do this but you won't get a result from anything else. Why not? It is not because the solid state components inside are in some way impervious to vibrations. It is because smacking a pen on the casework of your amp or DAC does not induce a sustained frequency to which components can resonate. A sustained 20Hz to 200Hz thrumming through your amp or DAC as a bassline, kickdrum or wind instrument may however hit the critical frequencies required to make caps generate electrical charges or the DAC resonators in your oscillators to, well, resonate! In a DAC this may lead to PM which may lead to jitter which may or may not be audible is all I have really said.

Navigation systems in trains, cars, planes, satelites etc. can function with high precision regardless of these vibrations in much higher levels. However, daft old men with diminished hearing in their living rooms playing Steely Dan can't.

Nobody said that audio DACs arent operating at a high level of precision, even with jitter present. The issue is that slight deviations in audio precision may be audibly noticeable and therefore an issue, whereas a plane putting its wheels down 5mm away from where it should have done so is not noticable and is not an issue. What kind of comparison are you trying to make here Vladimir?

DACs have jitter error correction circuitry and almost all are now asynchronius. It's a non issue. Daft old man should buy another Rolex and not worry about DACs and vibration. People with Aspergers or highly functional autism can't help themselves, so we can't reason those from being scammed.

Whether or not the DAC is asynchronous has no relevance. The clock is still the clock and phase modulated jitter can still be present. How and why do you think asynchronicity will solve PMJ caused by external vibrations in the clock oscillator? Any kind of reclocking or jitter error correction requires a second clock to refresh the jittery signal. Same problem, different clock.

Your comments about daft people, Aspergers and Autism are bordring on the unpleasant. Do you think it might be time to wind it back in Vladimir? *stop*

 

[andyjm]

Nobody said that audio DACs arent operating at a high level of precision, even with jitter present. The issue is that slight deviations in audio precision may be audibly noticeable and therefore an issue, whereas a plane putting its wheels down 5mm away from where it should have done so is not noticable and is not an issue. What kind of comparison are you trying to make here Vladimir?

Gazzip,

I am afraid that there continues to be a lot of 'whataboutary' in your comments.

I don't doubt that vibration can cause phase jitter in a crystal oscillator, but have you come across any analysis that vibration of a crystal within a DAC in a domestic environment leads to phase jitter that is audible?

 

[Gazzip]

Nobody said that audio DACs arent operating at a high level of precision, even with jitter present. The issue is that slight deviations in audio precision may be audibly noticeable and therefore an issue, whereas a plane putting its wheels down 5mm away from where it should have done so is not noticable and is not an issue. What kind of comparison are you trying to make here Vladimir?

Gazzip,

I am afraid that there continues to be a lot of 'whataboutary' in your comments.

I don't doubt that vibration can cause phase jitter in a crystal oscillator, but have you come across any analysis that vibration of a crystal within a DAC in a domestic environment leads to phase jitter that is audible?

My post is entirely 'whataboutary', as is much of audiophilia. I know that jitter is present in our DACs as do you. The diference between our standpoints is that I don't want it there because there is no conclusive scientific evidence to suggest that it does not effect the audio signal, whereas you are hapy to allow it to live in your DAC until there is scientifically conclusive evidence to prove that it does effect the audio signal. You choose to ignore the anecdotal and personal experiences of those who claim to be able to detect jitter whereas I do not.

 

[Vladimir]

Andrew, c'mon mate. I didn't suggest for a second that more expensive = more revealing. I simply stated that listening to systems at the budget end of the spectrum with expensive anti-vibration measures in place, and then publicly slating them as Snake Oil because they are not getting positive results, is not a fair test.

We have corresponed outside the forum so I know you are a bright guy. I am genuinely surprised therefore that you buy in to the piffel spouted by supposed scientists on the forum who state that tapping a pen or finger on top of a component is some kind of litmus test for microphonia. It is not, and those that pedal this nonsense are as guilty of scientific Snake Oil as the power cord manufacturers that they vilify on a daily basis. You might get a result from a turntable or a valve amp if you do this but you won't get a result from anything else. Why not? It is not because the solid state components inside are in some way impervious to vibrations. It is because smacking a pen on the casework of your amp or DAC does not induce a sustained frequency to which components can resonate. A sustained 20Hz to 200Hz thrumming through your amp or DAC as a bassline, kickdrum or wind instrument may however hit the critical frequencies required to make caps generate electrical charges or the DAC resonators in your oscillators to, well, resonate! In a DAC this may lead to PM which may lead to jitter which may or may not be audible is all I have really said.

Navigation systems in trains, cars, planes, satelites etc. can function with high precision regardless of these vibrations in much higher levels. However, daft old men with diminished hearing in their living rooms playing Steely Dan can't.

Nobody said that audio DACs arent operating at a high level of precision, even with jitter present. The issue is that slight deviations in audio precision may be audibly noticeable and therefore an issue, whereas a plane putting its wheels down 5mm away from where it should have done so is not noticable and is not an issue. What kind of comparison are you trying to make here Vladimir?

DACs have jitter error correction circuitry and almost all are now asynchronius. It's a non issue. Daft old man should buy another Rolex and not worry about DACs and vibration. People with Aspergers or highly functional autism can't help themselves, so we can't reason those from being scammed.

Whether or not the DAC is asynchronous has no relevance. The clock is still the clock and phase modulated jitter can still be present. How and why do you think asynchronicity will solve PMJ caused by external vibrations in the clock oscillator? Any kind of reclocking or jitter error correction requires a second clock to refresh the jittery signal. Same problem, different clock.

Your comments about daft people, Aspergers and Autism are bordring on the unpleasant. Do you think it might be time to wind it back in Vladimir? *stop*

You find people with autism unpleasant to talk about?

 

[Gazzip]

You find people with autism unpleasant to talk about?

Give it a rest Vladimir.

 

[Vladimir]

You find people with autism unpleasant to talk about?

Give it a rest Vladimir.

Sorry to mention the icky ppl with unhealthy minds that get scammed over pseudo science like wire resonance and inaudible DAC jitter. My bad. Keep rationalizing marketing shill literature. It's awesome.

 

[Gazzip]

You find people with autism unpleasant to talk about?

Give it a rest Vladimir.

Sorry to mention the icky ppl with unhealthy minds that get scammed over pseudo science like wire resonance and inaudible DAC jitter. My bad. Keep rationalizing marketing shill literature. It's awesome.

You cannot present one shred of scientific evidence to suggest it is inaudible. I can present plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is.

 

[Vladimir]

You find people with autism unpleasant to talk about?

Give it a rest Vladimir.

Sorry to mention the icky ppl with unhealthy minds that get scammed over pseudo science like wire resonance and inaudible DAC jitter. My bad. Keep rationalizing marketing shill literature. It's awesome.

You cannot present one shred of scientific evidence to suggest it is inaudible. I can present plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is.

You have jitter audibility specified in the DAC spec sheet. How's -133dB? Audible? Whatever jitter is generated due to cables, vibrations, magic etc. gets sorted by the AJC. It's a non issue, unless you want to make it and charge on someones ignorance or handicap.

Vibrations from music in your living room are a joke. Digital circuitry operates perfectly in harshest environments, immense vibration and constant shocks. Instead of using 'anecdotal evidence' (an oxymoron) try common sense.

 

[Vladimir]

A phase-locked loop (PLL) is an electronic circuit with a voltage or voltage-driven oscillator that constantly adjusts to match the frequency of an input signal. PLLs are used to generate, stabilize, modulate, demodulate, filter or recover a signal from a "noisy" communications channel where data has been interrupted.

(4) Jitter = timing error

Timing information for digital audio is like a music conductor in musical term. It controls the timing between different sections. Let’s say all members in an orchestra play perfectly with their own parts, but a bad conductor completely messes up with their timing, the orchestra performance will obviously poor.

(5) How can this timing information create?

Another name of this timing information is called “Clock signal’. In most digital devices, crystals are installed to generate this timing (clock) signal. A better crystal can provide more accurate timing information. However, we must be careful that the accuracy of crystal does not show the whole picture. The problem most of the time lies on other areas such as power supply, temperature, clock signal path etc.

(5) Will that show a soundcard can never be good source compares to my ultra expansive CD transport?

That depends on how we define what is a “good source”. Moreover, a lucky thing that jitter can be recovered and cleaned by good de-jittering devices and DACs. In all DACs, after it received the incoming digital data and timing information, it will match the clock input with its own reference timing, to form a pool. This is a basic PLL (Phase Lock Loop).

( 6) Does it mean there is another clock inside the DAC?

Yes, DAC actually has 2 clocks (crystals). One is based on 44.1kHz, the other is based on 48kHz. If you meet a problematic DAC, try lock it with different sampling rates. If the problem exists on sampling rate 44.1kHz, 88.2kHz, 176.4kHz, and working fine with 48kHz, 96kHz, 192kHz, you may have a bad crystal.

(7) Would you suggest a better DAC, or a better CD Transport?

Good DAC can clean up incoming jitter from bad sources. It is hard to define the term “good” Transport. First of all it’s a pure digital output device, the data should always be the same. If we talk about the jitter output, even if it provides perfect shape, it will(can) be alternate by the DAC clock/pool. Jitter can be cleaned/polluted in between the whole signal path. What’s matter is how accurate this timing information reaches the digital audio conversion point. (That’s means the clock input of DAC chipset) There were audiophiles who chained multi de-jittering boxes together a head of a DAC. If the DAC PLL circuit is poorly designed, jitter can be even higher than before it takes any de-jittering stage.

(8) Does transport mechanism vibration, power supply affect the jitter performance? If they do, then computer must not be a good thing for audio playback.

Yes they can affect the jitter performance. Again a good DAC can clean the incoming jitter. Computer is standard machine with standard power supply. The soundcard design is rather more directly related issue. Please do not use custom made MIT caps for your 450Watt ATX power supply. This can not improve the audio performance.

 

[Vladimir]

It doesn't matter how much you shake or vibrate your DAC, in a decently designed hardware the AJC will sort the jitter out and there won't be audible artefacts. It's done with math, not gilded cables, caps and spikes. -133dB for daft old men listening to upsampled low res 60s jazz. Couldn't be any more engineering overkill than this.

 

[Pedro]

I started to rattle my Mytek DAC and when I stopped this Darkthrone album never sounded so good. Now I can pick up all the detail and dynamics. I think I can even spot the Berliner Philarmoniker playing in the left channel.

Yes. In the shadow of the horns m/

 

[Infiniteloop]

Could someone explain to me why the sound from a CD using my old Denon DVD player through my Chord DAC sounds awful compared to the sound from the same CD using a Roksan M2 as a transport into the same DAC sounds great? According to what I've read on this thread there shouldn't be a difference, but there is.

And please don't insult my intelligence by using the 'expectation bias' excuse.

 

[Vladimir]

I wish someone could explain to me why the sound from a CD using my old Denon DVD player through my Chord DAC sounds awful compared to the sound from the same CD using a Roksan M2 as a transport which sounds great. According to what I've read on this thread there shouldn't be a difference, but there is.

And please don't insult my intelligence by using the 'expectation bias' excuse.

The topic is about how vibration affects SS gear with no moving parts, which also excludes CD transports.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I wish someone could explain to me why the sound from a CD using my old Denon DVD player through my Chord DAC sounds awful compared to the sound from the same CD using a Roksan M2 as a transport which sounds great. According to what I've read on this thread there shouldn't be a difference, but there is.

And please don't insult my intelligence by using the 'expectation bias' excuse.

The topic is about how vibration affects SS gear with no moving parts, which also excludes CD transports.

Thanks.