Is vibration over rated in solid state electronics

[ellisdj]

BS The rack is only 1 stage of the process it might reduce vibration from the structure going into the component but

More important is to drain the vibration of the component away

 

[Gazzip]

Well I own a ATACAMA Av rack that's made out of bamboo and each section has spikes I brought it not for its clams I brought it to fit all of my stuff on and there are not many hifi / Av racks out there that will fit large amplifiers like I've got .

very expensive for what they are but worth it to find a bit of furniture that will do the job probably .

I understand that people buy theses racks for TTs which I totally understand and maybe the CD player as well but I would of thought when your spending big money on a good quality CD player this day and age it would have the anti vibration stuff built inside and the feet that's attached to the player well my CD player as 2 kinds of feet you can change the feet into spikes just by taking the caps off or leave the caps on for standard feet .

in regards to whether solid state amplifiers are affected by vibrations I do not think so even though again yamaha have used to kinds of feet on my amplifier and marantz does the same but inside there top amplifier so no I do not think amplifiers are affected by vibrations as there no moving parts inside .

A good equipment rack/component foot combo will drain away vibration from the component whilst isolating impact and airborne vibration from entering the rack.

 

[ellisdj]

It cant if the component has rubber feet locking it in.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

It cant if the component has rubber feet locking it in.

as I said above both the Yamaha A-S2100 and it's CD player uses both a spike and a shoe for anti vibration

ive not noticed anything different sound wise since I've own the rack and my little one is always jumping up and down in front of my hifi I just look at the rack as it serves a purpose .

 

[Gazzip]

It cant if the component has rubber feet locking it in.

Exactly... I use my Cera-Discs metal to metal to MDF.

 

[Gazzip]

Is this the sound of jitter and can you hear it?

http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/what-does-jitter-sound-like

 

[newlash09]

I guess I can skip the rack for now, as I will only be placing the Yamaha wxc-50 on top of the amp. So guess no vibrations there in the chain. Thanks....

 

[ellisdj]

Dont you want to put the hot unit on the top?

 

[Andrewjvt]

As ive read the whole thread last night I have 2 questions.

If the dac is effected by vibrations (causing jitters) but most probably inaudible...

1. How come in other threads people have claimed vibration pads/feet have changed or focused the sound so that the user can clearly hear a difference? Please explain

2 wherethe hell are all these vibrations comming from?

I think there is an opportunity here to make and sell audiophile vibration meters to test vibration on equipment with avionic/military grade components

 

[Andrewjvt]

Dont you want to put the hot unit on the top?

I don't like stacking components on top of each other but if I had to I'd always stack the heavy item at the bottom and light in top.

If the amp sends too much heat above to effect the top mounted unit I'd not stack it.

 

[ellisdj]

I think there is an opportunity here to make and sell audiophile vibration meters to test vibration on equipment with avionic/military grade components

Ask mr Gingko he already has something

 

[Gazzip]

As ive read the whole thread last night I have 2 questions.

If the dac is effected by vibrations (causing jitters) but most probably inaudible...

1. How come in other threads people have claimed vibration pads/feet have changed or focused the sound so that the user can clearly hear a difference? Please explain

2 wherethe hell are all these vibrations comming from?

I think there is an opportunity here to make and sell audiophile vibration meters to test vibration on equipment with avionic/military grade components

1. Some people in this thread claim the jitter is inaudible. I for one think it is audible and I am by no means alone.

2. The air (airborne soundwaves from your music) and the structure of your property (impact vibration from your music).

It saddens me that so much scorn is poured on these types of products. Issues with vibration in all equipment, both solid state and otherwise, is extremely well known and scientifically documented. The simple and obvious reason that mitigating measures such as this are not always included as factory fit items by lower/mid end manufacturers is because the cost of including them vs the tiny gain in audible improvement is not worth it to them or their customers, most of whom are not "audiophiles" (God I hate that word...). Why would you put £1000 worth of StillPoints on a £179 Denon DM40? You wouldn't now would you.

Audiophile (there it goes again) tweaks are usually about mitigation of unwanted artifacts. Preventing as well as possible vibration, jitter, electrical noise, RF interference etc. Mitigate enough of these "inaudible" issues and the sum of many small improvements may make an audible improvement, or so the theory goes.

I don't want to offend anybody on here (but I know I am going to with this statement, so sorry in advance), but most of your systems are simply not revealing enough to benefit from such small improvements, and your listening spaces are not acoustically up to it either.

 

[Al ears]

As ive read the whole thread last night I have 2 questions.

If the dac is effected by vibrations (causing jitters) but most probably inaudible...

1. How come in other threads people have claimed vibration pads/feet have changed or focused the sound so that the user can clearly hear a difference? Please explain

2 wherethe hell are all these vibrations comming from?

I think there is an opportunity here to make and sell audiophile vibration meters to test vibration on equipment with avionic/military grade components

1. Some people in this thread claim the jitter is inaudible. I for one think it is audible and I am by no means alone.

2. The air (airborne soundwaves from your music) and the structure of your property (impact vibration from your music).

It saddens me that so much scorn is poured on these types of products. Issues with vibration in all equipment, both solid state and otherwise, is extremely well known and scientifically documented. The simple and obvious reason that mitigating measures such as this are not always included as factory fit items by lower/mid end manufacturers is because the cost of including them vs the tiny gain in audible improvement is not worth it to them or their customers, most of whom are not "audiophiles" (God I hate that word...). Why would you put £1000 worth of StillPoints on a £179 Denon DM40? You wouldn't now would you.

Audiophile (there it goes again) tweaks are usually about mitigation of unwanted artifacts. Preventing as well as possible vibration, jitter, electrical noise, RF interference etc. Mitigate enough of these "inaudible" issues and the sum of many small improvements may make an audible improvement, or so the theory goes.

I don't want to offend anybody on here (but I know I am going to with this statement, so sorry in advance), but most of your systems are simply not revealing enough to benefit from such small improvements, and your listening spaces are not acoustically up to it either.

After finding out what 'audible jitter' sounds like I am glad to say my DMP appears to be immune.

Perhaps the cheapest answer to mitigating vibrations in equipment is to keep it in a seperate room to the speakers... ;-)

 

[andyjm]

It saddens me that so much scorn is poured on these types of products. Issues with vibration in all equipment, both solid state and otherwise, is extremely well known and scientifically documented.

Perhaps a link to a study would help the discussion?

 

[Gazzip]

After finding out what 'audible jitter' sounds like I am glad to say my DMP appears to be immune.

Perhaps the cheapest answer to mitigating vibrations in equipment is to keep it in a seperate room to the speakers... ;-)

Yes! Absolutely it is! An RF blaster to control it and away you go. A galvanically/electrically/physically/time isolated RF blaster of course... *biggrin*

 

[Gazzip]

It saddens me that so much scorn is poured on these types of products. Issues with vibration in all equipment, both solid state and otherwise, is extremely well known and scientifically documented.

Perhaps a link to a study would help the discussion?

http://tf.nist.gov/general/pdf/2328.pdf

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=AKjnOnhGDXYC&pg=PA460&lpg=PA460&dq=DAC+oscillators+vibration&source=bl&ots=S8zPdWNb1L&sig=E2xjxxUHAu54swBld4ZWJpT_gKs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCmvr_79jVAhVhCsAKHUdSBDwQ6AEIPTAD#v=onepage&q=DAC%20oscillators%20vibration&f=false

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_noise

 

[newlash09]

if placed on top. Besides so far I haven't found the amp generating any heat all... absolutely none. But that was expected with the small speakers I was running it with on the boat. However if it starts generating heat driving bigger speakers then I will place the wxc 50 besides it. I will even hold the wxc-50 in my lap if required. But I for one can't stand the look of a equipment rack. I prefer laying out everything next to each other on a solid granite plinth in my dining room placed on the floor.

 

[davedotco]

if placed on top. Besides so far I haven't found the amp generating any heat all... absolutely none. But that was expected with the small speakers I was running it with on the boat. However if it starts generating heat driving bigger speakers then I will place the wxc 50 besides it. I will even hold the wxc-50 in my lap if required. But I for one can't stand the look of a equipment rack. I prefer laying out everything next to each other on a solid granite plinth in my dining room placed on the floor.

You should be aware that using a massive support (granite slab) will couple your equipment to the structure of the building. If there is any vibration in the structure it will pass straight through to your equipment.

Whether audible or not is a different question.

For preference I use a granite board under my speaker, but the speakers are spiked onto it. If you want to keep vibration to a minimum, I would suggest using spiked sub-tables between the components and the slab.

 

[Vladimir]

Spikes and screws are coupling, soft materials are decoupling.

 

[Pedro]

if placed on top. Besides so far I haven't found the amp generating any heat all... absolutely none. But that was expected with the small speakers I was running it with on the boat. However if it starts generating heat driving bigger speakers then I will place the wxc 50 besides it. I will even hold the wxc-50 in my lap if required. But I for one can't stand the look of a equipment rack. I prefer laying out everything next to each other on a solid granite plinth in my dining room placed on the floor.

I bought some white plywood boards (alike IKEA stuff) cut to size, screw them together and voilà. I spent like 15 euros. There are plenty of alternatives to expensive hifi racks if, like me, you don't use a turntable...

 

[Al ears]

Spikes and screws are coupling, soft materials are decoupling.

You beat me to it. Spikes couple, no matter what they are sat on, be it floorboards or granite slabs.

If you want to de-couple or isolate then its the likes of sorbothane feet etc. As such, with my hifi now upstairs, my speakers' spikes have gone and are now blutacked to granite slabs with sorbothane half-rounds underneath - now suitably de-coupled and better for it.

My HiRacks racks shelves are coupled with spikes as this assists in passing any, and I don't believe there is much if any, vibrations created by equipment into the bulk of the rack itself.

 

[Vladimir]

One can add speaker cabinet mass by coupling to granite slabs, but have those decoupled from the floor with some sorbothane/silicone pads. This would be practical for suspended floors.

 

[Al ears]

One can add speaker cabinet mass by coupling to granite slabs, but have those decoupled from the floor with some sorbothane/silicone pads. This would be practical for suspended floors.

Exactly what I had to do with my floorstanders....as I cannot afford those Townshend Seismic Sinks... ;-)

 

[Pedro]

Vlad & Al ears: just out of curiosity would it be mental to place a small subwoofer on a suspended wooden floor or can some form of decoupling work (sorbothane feet, auralex sub dude)?

 

[ellisdj]

Sorbuthane is rubber there are much better solutions than this.