Is streaming the future?

[fr0g]

I'm another one who mainly listens to Spotify. Reliability has been pretty much 100% for me, so I have no issues there.

Also, Spotify has a folder structure, so I have a folder called "Albums" in that I have a folder called "Classical", "Heavy Metal", etc etc and then full albums.

I'm pretty certain Spotify will start to earn money fairly soon. They have been using less each year as subscibers increase. At some point I can see them removing the free service.

Radio too is great, although not FM. There are some great independant radio stations that have fantastic playlists (Paradise Radio is an excellent example).

The number of albums I buy has gone from around 1 or 2 a week to maybe 10 a year, which suits me. And even then, I usually buy the downloads. Most of my CDs are in the garage in boxes.

So yes, it's the present and the future.

 

[gowiththeflow]

My issue being one of ownership. If these services went belly up what happens to 'your' music.

It requires a different mindset, where the concept of "ownership" is no longer relevant and "my music" is available on demand, from where ever.

When I started using downloads, I also bought my most favourite downloads on CD as well; but when I started to use streaming services, I soon gave up on buying CD's of my favourite music. There was no point as I'd never play them.

At first it was a rather uncomfortable feeling, not actually possessing hard copy, but I quickly got over it. I've got hundreds of CD's and Vinyl albums that I'll probably never play again. I just don't feel the need to buy any more.

If some of the services are lost, or I stop my subscriptions, is it such a worry? I can always get most of the music from elsewhere.

 

[matt49]

For a lot of artists this appears to be the issue.

To be slightly more correct, Spotify pay the 'rights holder' which may well include writers, composers, producers and of course record companies. For the artist a lot will depend on the contracts they have signed, particularly with the record companies who can be rapaceous.

In the days when product was sold as physical media. records, CDs etc, it could be argued that the record companies desrved their large percentages but now, in a market dominated by downloads and streaming that is no longer the case.

New artists will benefit from the new style of management that works to a rather different business model, making reasonable returns for a wide range of artists rather than a handful of 'superstars' making fortunes and 'subsidising' the rest of the industry.

You're right: streaming services do have the potential to reshape the music business. By kicking out the greedy record companies, artists could develop a more direct relationship with consumers.

But whether this will happen depends on (at least) three imponderables:

-- will the record companies go quietly? It's well known that the big record companies feel they were shafted by Apple over iTunes, and their reaction was to negotiate a rather better deal for themselves with Spotify et al., which is one of the reasons Spotify can't make money. I suspect the record companies will hang on for a while yet. They're still quite powerful, and the history of artistic rights (whether music or film or book publishing) shows that in all but a few cases it's the record/film/publishing companies that have the upper hand economically.

-- you're right that one of the traditional justifications for the existence of record companies was the production of physical media. But that was by no means the only justification. A significant part of record company expediture is on marketing. (Whether we think record companies do this well isn't really relevant.) If the record companies all but disappear, who's going to do the marketing?

-- but the biggest problem is the consumer. Many (most?) consumers resent paying money for online services; younger people in particular have a sense of entitlement as far as the web's concerned. (Just think how many people use pirated music and video files.) If Spotify charges an economic rate, these people will go elsewhere. The paying consumer is also a problem. How many of those who pay for a Spotify premium account would be willing to pay what artists are likely to demand? I suspect not enough for Spotify to be viable.

Comparison with digital book publishing is illuminating. The relative success of e.g. the Kindle is based on the fact that people are prepared to pay hugely inflated sums for new releases of e-books, by which I mean that the retail price of a new e-book bears practically no relation to what it costs the publisher to produce it. Consumers pay these inflated prices for the benefit of convenience: being able to carry a small library around on an e-reader is just wonderful. (I'm sitting by the pool ATM: it's 30 degrees; I have all my holiday reading on my Kindle.)

By comparison, music streaming services don't offer the same enhanced convenience. I can easily rip my CDs, tell iTunes to downsample them to 256kbps, and have a substantial library of music for poolside listening on my portable thingy. Perfectly convenient.

 

[MickyBlue]

not for me... i prefer a physical product and the fact that when the internet goes down my music won't

 

[MajorFubar]

Also can you record onto CD from them.

Yes but of course not legally. You aren't renting the right to own the music in a physical form. Which is why as others have said it requires a different mind-set. With streaming there's no such thing as 'my music'. You're renting the right to play any of it, but to own none of it. With physical media, the original purchaser paid the rights to own one copy of the single, EP or album indefinitely until he gives it away or re-sells it, which passes that right to the next owner. Streaming is different.

 

[Covenanter]

I doubt we know what the future will bring. CDs were almost magical when they first came out and we certainly had no idea about "downloading" or "streaming" as there was no internet. As storage gets cheaper and cheaper who knows what ways companies will find to package music (and films and games, etc.).

I'm going to stick to CDs for now which is not because I have any resistance to "streaming" but because I am happy with what I have and don't need to change. When they put me in an old-people's home I'll have my music ripped onto a disk but that is hopefully a few years away yet.

Chris

 

[EvPa]

With physical media, the original purchaser paid the rights to own one copy of the single, EP or album indefinitely until he gives it away or re-sells it, which passes that right to the next owner. Streaming is different.

In most countries, buying a music CD only entitles the purchaser to listen to it in a private location, you are not supposed to resell it or give it away (those things are usually written in extremely small print).

The same applies to video games (doesn't stop them from having a pretty good second-hand market too).

 

[Jota180]

I've no doubt the music industry would like to move away from the purchasable/ownable digital CD which can be copied and shared with ease and onto a cloud based rental system.

The person who spends £15,000 in their lifetime on CD's has a collection he can hand on to his kids (assuming they share dads taste!).

The person who spends £15,000 in their lifetime only on streaming music has nothing to hand on. The subscription and with it the music, dies with the subscriber.

We're going to see this streaming/cloud approach to software and games too. You'll pay a subscription for access and when you're sub is over, your access is over and you've nothing to show for it.

 

[EvPa]

The person who spends £15,000 in their lifetime only on streaming music has nothing to hand on. The subscription and with it the music, dies with the subscriber.

That's 102 years of French-price Qobuz Hi-Fi though...

(or 75 years at UK price)

 

[michael hoy]

The only music streaming I do and would only do, is internally from the CD's or downloaded music I buy and store on my server.

 

[Jota180]

The person who spends £15,000 in their lifetime only on streaming music has nothing to hand on. The subscription and with it the music, dies with the subscriber.

That's 102 years of French-price Qobuz Hi-Fi though...

(or 75 years at UK price)

Currently!

 

[jjbomber]

(I'm sitting by the pool ATM: it's 30 degrees; I have all my holiday reading on my Kindle.)

You go on holidays to read a Kindle? According to a survey last week, the most popular activity in hotel rooms was watching TV. Jeez, there are some sad people who go on holiday*biggrin*

 

[jjbomber]

not for me... i prefer a physical product and the fact that when the internet goes down my music won't

Spotify is available offline; you don't need the internet for your playlists.

 

[matt49]

(I'm sitting by the pool ATM: it's 30 degrees; I have all my holiday reading on my Kindle.)

You go on holidays to read a Kindle? According to a survey last week, the most popular activity in hotel rooms was watching TV. Jeez, there are some sad people who go on holiday*biggrin*

Yes: I go on holiday to read (books on) a Kindle. Unfortunately reading time is limited because of other activities like swimming, scuba, paragliding etc. *sad*

 

[MajorFubar]

In most countries, buying a music CD only entitles the purchaser to listen to it in a private location, you are not supposed to resell it or give it away (those things are usually written in extremely small print).

The same applies to video games (doesn't stop them from having a pretty good second-hand market too).

I don't know about that, though I haven't looked into it. It makes no odds IMO, same copy being passed from person to person, the artist isn't out of pocket because only one copy has bought and exists. Different matter if each person keeps a copy, that's clearly wrong.

 

[James83]

Streaming? Whats that?

If I want an album, then this streaming word doesnt even cross my mind. I buy the CD, each and every time. OK Amazon let me download some albums once I had purchased the CD, and I once purchased a couple of live shows that could only be downloaded, but that is it. Thankfully the live shows now are distributed on a nice guitar shaped pen drive.

Never used this Spotify, and fingers crossed I never have to. The day I dont have a physical album to hold, is, to me, the day music dies.

But thats me. Each to their own of course. But if all you spotifiers end up ruining music for me.........................................

Actually thats a good name that. Spotifiers.

 

[Um]

Streaming? Whats that?

If I want an album, then this streaming word doesnt even cross my mind. I buy the CD, each and every time. OK Amazon let me download some albums once I had purchased the CD, and I once purchased a couple of live shows that could only be downloaded, but that is it. Thankfully the live shows now are distributed on a nice guitar shaped pen drive.

Never used this Spotify, and fingers crossed I never have to. The day I dont have a physical album to hold, is, to me, the day music dies.

But thats me. Each to their own of course. But if all you spotifiers end up ruining music for me.........................................

Actually thats a good name that. Spotifiers.

" the day music dies". That's a bit steep, you obviously don't like music that much. Music is everything to me an frankly I'd listen to it on anything anywhere anyhow.

 

[matthewpiano]

The place where music really lives is live. No form of storage medium or device can replicate the whole experience of being in the same room as the musicians. The day live music dies is the day music dies. While there is still plenty of live music, music is alive and well no matter what is happening in recording.

 

[Um]

The place where music really lives is live. No form of storage medium or device can replicate the whole experience of being in the same room as the musicians. The day live music dies is the day music dies. While there is still plenty of live music, music is alive and well no matter what is happening in recording.

Totally agree, and what a thing James said. Very strange

 

[bigfish786]

While flicking through the telly channels, I dropped on The Wright Show, they were talking about music sales, think it was a guy from a 90's boy band, saying basically to get a No1 single today you only need sell around 30,000 copies. Back in the 90's it would have taken 350,000. And ended by saying that's why bands are touring much more these days, to try and make a success and make money. They can't do it on record sales alone.

 

[MajorFubar]

Streaming? Whats that?...

Never used this Spotify, and fingers crossed I never have to. The day I dont have a physical album to hold, is, to me, the day music dies.

But thats me. Each to their own of course. But if all you spotifiers end up ruining music for me.........................................

Actually thats a good name that. Spotifiers.

I think you're being stupidly melodramatic. You're also cutting off your own nose to spite your face by missing out on an amazing way of exposing yourself to music you haven't heard and wouldn't otherwise know about that just didn't exist ten years ago. And that's me as someone who still buys CDs. I saw silly statements like this (or variations thereof) over 30 years ago when CDs came out and all the LP enthusiasts with their record players worth as much as my house were cluttering-up the magazines' letters pages with sorry tails about CDs not being real music, no CD would ever cross their palms, and the world as we knew it was about to end. Face it, things change. If there had been a What HiFi? in 1948 you would no doubt have read the same tails of woe and dispair from those objecting to vinyl records. And so it goes on.

Truth is some people just object to change and see it as a threat, while others embrace it and see it as an opportunity. That's why I jumped onboard the CD bandwagon as soon as I could afford to as a teenager in 1987 and I've been a happy Spotify subscriber for over four years.

EDIT: PS I've also ripped all my CDs to a NAS and I haven't actually played a CD for nearly a year. In fact the CDP which was once my main source is now in a cupboard gathering dust. Times move on. Embrace the change.

 

[bigfish786]

Streaming? Whats that?...

Never used this Spotify, and fingers crossed I never have to. The day I dont have a physical album to hold, is, to me, the day music dies.

But thats me. Each to their own of course. But if all you spotifiers end up ruining music for me.........................................

Actually thats a good name that. Spotifiers.

I think you're being stupidly melodramatic. You're also cutting off your own nose to spite your face by missing out on an amazing way of exposing yourself to music you haven't heard and wouldn't otherwise know about that just didn't exist ten years ago. And that's me as someone who still buys CDs. I saw silly statements like this (or variations thereof) over 30 years ago when CDs came out and all the LP enthusiasts with their record players worth as much as my house were cluttering-up the magazines' letters pages with sorry tails about CDs not being real music, no CD would ever cross their palms, and the world as we knew it was about to end. Face it, things change. If there had been a What HiFi? in 1948 you would no doubt have read the same tails of woe and dispair from those objecting to vinyl records. And so it goes on.

Truth is some people just object to change and see it as a threat, while others embrace it and see it as an opportunity. That's why I jumped onboard the CD bandwagon as soon as I could afford to as a teenager in 1987 and I've been a happy Spotify subscriber for over four years.

of all the music you have listened to via spotify, have you bought it on any other format to keep, after hearing it, or have you stopped buying music altogether?

 

[manicm]

Major Fubar, no need to be insulting (real gentlemen only seem to be on Naim forums these days). I think James has a point insofar as if you view the major labels as thugs - which I think they are. They'd love streaming to be the only option cos that would kill portability of your own music ,such as ripping for your car etc, especially if you can't afford Internet access everywhere, with high bandwidth especially. And I'll bet you top shilling, BMW Audi et al will throw in hires playback in their cars soon. In my country, I cannot even download the latest pop songs because the major label local agents are preventing us! I had to download a hires version of the Fifty Shades Of Grey soundtrack for my wife!! I didn't want a cd because I have no space currently.

And again let's keep things civil here.

 

[Um]

Major Fubar, no need to be insulting (real gentlemen only seem to be on Naim forums these days). I think James has a point insofar as if you view the major labels as thugs - which I think they are. They'd love streaming to be the only option cos that would kill portability of your own music ,such as ripping for your car etc, especially if you can't afford Internet access everywhere, with high bandwidth especially. And I'll bet you top shilling, BMW Audi et al will throw in hires playback in their cars soon. In my country, I cannot even download the latest pop songs because the major label local agents are preventing us! I had to download a hires version of the Fifty Shades Of Grey soundtrack for my wife!! I didn't want a cd because I have no space currently.

And again let's keep things civil here.

yes but take the Cd's away from James and music dies.

 

[slice]

Streaming? Whats that?...

Never used this Spotify, and fingers crossed I never have to. The day I dont have a physical album to hold, is, to me, the day music dies.

But thats me. Each to their own of course. But if all you spotifiers end up ruining music for me.........................................

Actually thats a good name that. Spotifiers.

I think you're being stupidly melodramatic. You're also cutting off your own nose to spite your face by missing out on an amazing way of exposing yourself to music you haven't heard and wouldn't otherwise know about that just didn't exist ten years ago. And that's me as someone who still buys CDs. I saw silly statements like this (or variations thereof) over 30 years ago when CDs came out and all the LP enthusiasts with their record players worth as much as my house were cluttering-up the magazines' letters pages with sorry tails about CDs not being real music, no CD would ever cross their palms, and the world as we knew it was about to end. Face it, things change. If there had been a What HiFi? in 1948 you would no doubt have read the same tails of woe and dispair from those objecting to vinyl records. And so it goes on.

Truth is some people just object to change and see it as a threat, while others embrace it and see it as an opportunity. That's why I jumped onboard the CD bandwagon as soon as I could afford to as a teenager in 1987 and I've been a happy Spotify subscriber for over four years.

EDIT: PS I've also ripped all my CDs to a NAS and I haven't actually played a CD for nearly a year. In fact the CDP which was once my main source is now in a cupboard gathering dust. Times move on. Embrace the change.

The replies seem a tad strident these days, I feel.

You are right to say someone might miss out on experimenting with new music by not streaming, but there is a converse to this. By having bookcases of cds in plain sight, i'm reminded of music I haven't played for a while every time I pass by, unlike if it's all hidden on some hard drive or computer site. And it's physically permanently there, perfect every time I want to listen to it. And I can read the musical notes if I want. I guess it's old fashioned, but it really is the way I like to listen to it. Some new devices stream AND play cds, for me, I would be paying for something extra I don't want, though that is the way of the modern world, and I don't see why I should have to embrace what I don't want.

Yes, I know, I'm a dinosaur waiting for the asteroid strike!