Ollie.:It's a load of marketing rubbish. People buying expensive power leads and cables really need to grow up. Even speaker wire cable makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. I'd challenge anyone to a blind test..with any amount of money on the table..
my experience has shown me that there are changes in cables ... I have a box full of old speaker cables which I bought from ebay ...
I have done several tests using the same amp/cdp/speakers and the same track on a cd ... have also kept the volume control in the exact same position
changes are subtle, but the biggest diference was in the volume ... also found that bass and treble had very slight differences ... on some of the silver cables, found that s's sounded like z's on my system ...
as for interconnects, I still have the cheap 'out the box' cable and there is a huge difference between my current SHB interconnect ... especially in the soundstage
my ears are not all that good, but as mentoned changes were heard ... my wife has better ears than me and she hear the same changes as I did
I also have a Tacima adapter, and I hear no differences at all, but many people do
If ever you pass Cambridge, you are most welcome to pop in and have a listen for yourself
my experience has shown me that there are changes in cables ... I have a box full of old speaker cables which I bought from ebay ...
I have done several tests using the same amp/cdp/speakers and the same track on a cd ... have also kept the volume control in the exact same position
changes are subtle, but the biggest diference was in the volume ... also found that bass and treble had very slight differences ... on some of the silver cables, found that s's sounded like z's on my system ...
as for interconnects, I still have the cheap 'out the box' cable and there is a huge difference between my current SHB interconnect ... especially in the soundstage
my ears are not all that good, but as mentoned changes were heard ... my wife has better ears than me and she hear the same changes as I did
I also have a Tacima adapter, and I hear no differences at all, but many people do
If ever you pass Cambridge, you are most welcome to pop in and have a listen for yourself
In my opinion it is all about the individuals ears.
Your system will only ever sound as good as your ears!
some people can hear a feather land in a forest!
others can't hear a brick go through a window!
FACT
Your system will only ever sound as good as your ears!
some people can hear a feather land in a forest!
others can't hear a brick go through a window!
FACT
And its possible.........just possible ...............Ollie that your ears are not capable of telling the difference....
and that is said in the nicest possible way without any animosity.
and that is said in the nicest possible way without any animosity.
matengawhat
Well-known member
i agree - but i think its down to the fact that all music sounds the same these days its just noise!
matengawhat
Well-known member
matengawhat
Well-known member
yes - bush has done extensive testing and proved it but the results are top secret! And he wouldn't lie
Can we all agree, then, that you must spend a reasonable amount on cables, in order to make sure it's low resistance, and has little noise?
I'd say this is a good enough reason to spend money on buying better-than-free cables, but spending silly money (think £100+ per metre) has benefits which are subjective. If buying such cables makes you happy and you feel it helps your system, that's fine. If you don't believe in spending that much money, consider spending at least some, to (as I said before) lower resistance with long cable runs, and to properly shield interconnects from noise.
You can't use 0.5mm diameter single core wire to go to your £1000 speakers.
Chris
I'd say this is a good enough reason to spend money on buying better-than-free cables, but spending silly money (think £100+ per metre) has benefits which are subjective. If buying such cables makes you happy and you feel it helps your system, that's fine. If you don't believe in spending that much money, consider spending at least some, to (as I said before) lower resistance with long cable runs, and to properly shield interconnects from noise.
You can't use 0.5mm diameter single core wire to go to your £1000 speakers.
Chris
reviewers and hi-fi experts/enthusiast no what to listen out for, they have a trained ear and most of them have probably heard more than the one system, so therefore they can hear the subtle difference between various cables/equiptment and can express what they hear, where as other people would just hear a noise and say thats music.
chebby
Well-known member
brittondave:some people can hear a feather land in a forest!
others can't hear a brick go through a window
FACT
!
And if the feather is still attached to a bird and the wndow is open?
others can't hear a brick go through a window
FACT
And if the feather is still attached to a bird and the wndow is open?
Ollie.:
ahhh, so you express respect by telling people they should grow up. brilliant.
Sorry I offended you igglebert. If you want to continue buying expensive cables, then go ahead. I'll let you in a little secret though - it makes no difference. Trust me..
Cheers but you didn't offend me. I've spent an average of £60 on each of my four interconnects in my system. I spent £90 on 2x 6m of Chord Odyssey 2 delivered. I got a free Chord mains cable with a What Hifi subscription which in itself was only £20, and I spent another £50 on mains stuff as an experiment.
A total of less than £400 to do everything isn't so bad as it's all decent quality. Every change has made a difference. Other tweaks have simply changed the sound and not improved it so they went.
ahhh, so you express respect by telling people they should grow up. brilliant.
Sorry I offended you igglebert. If you want to continue buying expensive cables, then go ahead. I'll let you in a little secret though - it makes no difference. Trust me..
Cheers but you didn't offend me. I've spent an average of £60 on each of my four interconnects in my system. I spent £90 on 2x 6m of Chord Odyssey 2 delivered. I got a free Chord mains cable with a What Hifi subscription which in itself was only £20, and I spent another £50 on mains stuff as an experiment.
A total of less than £400 to do everything isn't so bad as it's all decent quality. Every change has made a difference. Other tweaks have simply changed the sound and not improved it so they went.
Two interconnects where you will notice a huge difference. Atlas Equator and chord cobra. Please, anyone that thinks different interconnects sound the same, have a back to back listen to these two.
i think spending 10% of money you spent on your system for the cables is fair enough and yes there is a little difference sound!
idc
Well-known member
Ollie.:It's a load of marketing rubbish. People buying expensive power leads and cables really need to grow up. Even speaker wire cable makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. I'd challenge anyone to a blind test..with any amount of money on the table..
Apart from thinking
EDITED BY MODS - please do not attack other members
your presence on the forum is not a serious one, I doubt that you would be able to arrange a serious blind test to everyone's satisfaction, where money is at stake. The reason for that is......
qube2:Ollie is correct I'm afraid. In ABX testing not one 'golden ear' has ever been able to identify between different cables or many other components for that matter. It is a marketing gold pot and people naively buy into it and waste their money needlessly, filling the pockets of the con men that perpetuate the lies. Longer lengths of cable will make a difference when you take into consideration resistance, inductance etc, but aside from that so long as a reasonable amount is spent, no difference. Peoples minds cannot be changed on a forum like this however, they will defend their beliefs religiously. To each his own, if I could afford expensive cabling then, to be fair, I would! lol
......which is wrong. There have been plenty of ABX tests, by What Hifi with the 'Big Discussion', forum members, the likes of The Boston Audio Society and just search such tests on the internet. ABX tests have produced mixed results and have not conclusively proved one way or another.
So, even if Ollie did arrange such a test, it would not be the be all and end all. It would just join the numerous other such test results out there.
Apart from thinking
EDITED BY MODS - please do not attack other members
your presence on the forum is not a serious one, I doubt that you would be able to arrange a serious blind test to everyone's satisfaction, where money is at stake. The reason for that is......
qube2:Ollie is correct I'm afraid. In ABX testing not one 'golden ear' has ever been able to identify between different cables or many other components for that matter. It is a marketing gold pot and people naively buy into it and waste their money needlessly, filling the pockets of the con men that perpetuate the lies. Longer lengths of cable will make a difference when you take into consideration resistance, inductance etc, but aside from that so long as a reasonable amount is spent, no difference. Peoples minds cannot be changed on a forum like this however, they will defend their beliefs religiously. To each his own, if I could afford expensive cabling then, to be fair, I would! lol
......which is wrong. There have been plenty of ABX tests, by What Hifi with the 'Big Discussion', forum members, the likes of The Boston Audio Society and just search such tests on the internet. ABX tests have produced mixed results and have not conclusively proved one way or another.
So, even if Ollie did arrange such a test, it would not be the be all and end all. It would just join the numerous other such test results out there.
chebby
Well-known member
Alec
Well-known member
Quite, Chebby.
And asking people to be honest in the thread title will make no difference, unless they have all been totally dishonest in the past, just for laughs.
And asking people to be honest in the thread title will make no difference, unless they have all been totally dishonest in the past, just for laughs.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
brittondave:others can't hear a brick go through a window!
That made me laugh
And yes, that's true.
That made me laugh
And yes, that's true.
As somewhat of a sceptic, I thought that my system was sounding a bit bright- mostly I must add due to the room as it is an office and no chance for any soft furnishings.
I was then persuaded by a good friend of mine who said that the Qed Silver Anniversay XT could be increasing the brightness and that I should try some copper speaker cable.
So lo and behold I got a run of pure copper speaker cable from Fleabay and the brightness has reduced a touch.
I realise that my sytem will always have a touch of brightness to it but the change in speaker cable did make a difference
I was then persuaded by a good friend of mine who said that the Qed Silver Anniversay XT could be increasing the brightness and that I should try some copper speaker cable.
So lo and behold I got a run of pure copper speaker cable from Fleabay and the brightness has reduced a touch.
I realise that my sytem will always have a touch of brightness to it but the change in speaker cable did make a difference
HiFiAddict: Can we all agree, then, that you must spend a reasonable amount on cables, in order to make sure it's low resistance, and has little noise?
I'd say this is a good enough reason to spend money on buying better-than-free cables, but spending silly money (think £100+ per metre) has benefits which are subjective. If buying such cables makes you happy and you feel it helps your system, that's fine. If you don't believe in spending that much money, consider spending at least some, to (as I said before) lower resistance with long cable runs, and to properly shield interconnects from noise.
You can't use 0.5mm diameter single core wire to go to your £1000 speakers.
Chris
Depends what you call a reasonable amount, copper and plastic are not very expensive. Analogue inter connectors are not very demanding, in terms of what they need to achieve to work faultlessly and often come free. Digital coaxial and sub woofer cables are also very undemanding and analogue inter connector cables work fine in the job. Speaker cable just needs to of adequate gauge for its length to work faultlessly. Optical cables I do not like, but they are just plastic or glass. Hdmi is more complex to make but due to mass production should also be cheap, and some components come with free cables, it is only when you need a long hdmi cable or have problem devices that you need higher quality hdmi cables. Power cables usually come free with components.
So I only spend a reasonable amount on cables when I need to buy a cable because I do not already have one or the one I have has a obvious fault or need to solve an obvious problem. I do not upgrade cables with higher quality ones for subtle improvement in performance, because if the cable is working faultlessly it can not be improved, if it is not broke why fix it. If your inter connector cables criss-cross each other and power cords, or you live next to a transmitter and loads of RFI, or habitually unplug and plug back in cables all the time, then you might need the superior shielding and build quality, you hopefully get by upgrading cables. While others say they used to not believe cables made a different but now do after hearing/seeing the difference they make. I am in the opposite boat, 20 years ago I would have upgraded cables for best performance, now I think I know better
I'd say this is a good enough reason to spend money on buying better-than-free cables, but spending silly money (think £100+ per metre) has benefits which are subjective. If buying such cables makes you happy and you feel it helps your system, that's fine. If you don't believe in spending that much money, consider spending at least some, to (as I said before) lower resistance with long cable runs, and to properly shield interconnects from noise.
You can't use 0.5mm diameter single core wire to go to your £1000 speakers.
Chris
Depends what you call a reasonable amount, copper and plastic are not very expensive. Analogue inter connectors are not very demanding, in terms of what they need to achieve to work faultlessly and often come free. Digital coaxial and sub woofer cables are also very undemanding and analogue inter connector cables work fine in the job. Speaker cable just needs to of adequate gauge for its length to work faultlessly. Optical cables I do not like, but they are just plastic or glass. Hdmi is more complex to make but due to mass production should also be cheap, and some components come with free cables, it is only when you need a long hdmi cable or have problem devices that you need higher quality hdmi cables. Power cables usually come free with components.
So I only spend a reasonable amount on cables when I need to buy a cable because I do not already have one or the one I have has a obvious fault or need to solve an obvious problem. I do not upgrade cables with higher quality ones for subtle improvement in performance, because if the cable is working faultlessly it can not be improved, if it is not broke why fix it. If your inter connector cables criss-cross each other and power cords, or you live next to a transmitter and loads of RFI, or habitually unplug and plug back in cables all the time, then you might need the superior shielding and build quality, you hopefully get by upgrading cables. While others say they used to not believe cables made a different but now do after hearing/seeing the difference they make. I am in the opposite boat, 20 years ago I would have upgraded cables for best performance, now I think I know better
MattSPL
Well-known member
knightout:
HiFiAddict: Can we all agree, then, that you must spend a reasonable amount on cables, in order to make sure it's low resistance, and has little noise?
I'd say this is a good enough reason to spend money on buying better-than-free cables, but spending silly money (think £100+ per metre) has benefits which are subjective. If buying such cables makes you happy and you feel it helps your system, that's fine. If you don't believe in spending that much money, consider spending at least some, to (as I said before) lower resistance with long cable runs, and to properly shield interconnects from noise.
You can't use 0.5mm diameter single core wire to go to your £1000 speakers.
Chris
Depends what you call a reasonalbe amount, copper and plastic are not very expensive. Analogue interconnectors are not very demanding, in terms of what they need to achieve to work faultlessly and often come free. Digital coaxial and subwoofer cables are also very undemanding and analogue interconnector cables work fine in the job. Speaker cable just needs to of adequate gauage for its length to work fautlessly. Optical cables I do not like, but they are just plastic or glass. Hdmi is more complex to make but due to mass production should also be cheap, and some components come with free cables, it is only when you need long hdmi cable or have problem devices that you need higher quality hdmi cables. Power cables usually come free with components.
So I only spend a reasonable amount on cables when I need to buy a cable because I do not already have one or the one I have has a obvious fault or need to solve an obvious problem. I do not upgrade cables with higher quality ones for subtle improvement in performance, because if the cable is working fautlessly it can not be improved, if it is not broke why fix it. If you have all your interconnector cables criss-crossing each other and power cords, or live next to a trasmitter and loads of RFI, or habitually unplug and plug back in cables all the time, then you might need the supperior shielding and build quality, you hopefully get by upgrading cables. While others say they used to not believe cables made a different but now do after hearing/sseing the difference they make. I am in the opposite boat, 20 years ago I would have upgraded cables for best performance, now I think I know better
All my cables are Ps audio's top of the range which i eiter gor second hand or at heavily discounted prices.
At RRP they would have cost around £6-7,000. I spent about £1500 in total on them and they are worth every penny.
Ive had lesser cables at various price ranges and all gave improvoments but the more you spend, generally the more you get.
HiFiAddict: Can we all agree, then, that you must spend a reasonable amount on cables, in order to make sure it's low resistance, and has little noise?
I'd say this is a good enough reason to spend money on buying better-than-free cables, but spending silly money (think £100+ per metre) has benefits which are subjective. If buying such cables makes you happy and you feel it helps your system, that's fine. If you don't believe in spending that much money, consider spending at least some, to (as I said before) lower resistance with long cable runs, and to properly shield interconnects from noise.
You can't use 0.5mm diameter single core wire to go to your £1000 speakers.
Chris
Depends what you call a reasonalbe amount, copper and plastic are not very expensive. Analogue interconnectors are not very demanding, in terms of what they need to achieve to work faultlessly and often come free. Digital coaxial and subwoofer cables are also very undemanding and analogue interconnector cables work fine in the job. Speaker cable just needs to of adequate gauage for its length to work fautlessly. Optical cables I do not like, but they are just plastic or glass. Hdmi is more complex to make but due to mass production should also be cheap, and some components come with free cables, it is only when you need long hdmi cable or have problem devices that you need higher quality hdmi cables. Power cables usually come free with components.
So I only spend a reasonable amount on cables when I need to buy a cable because I do not already have one or the one I have has a obvious fault or need to solve an obvious problem. I do not upgrade cables with higher quality ones for subtle improvement in performance, because if the cable is working fautlessly it can not be improved, if it is not broke why fix it. If you have all your interconnector cables criss-crossing each other and power cords, or live next to a trasmitter and loads of RFI, or habitually unplug and plug back in cables all the time, then you might need the supperior shielding and build quality, you hopefully get by upgrading cables. While others say they used to not believe cables made a different but now do after hearing/sseing the difference they make. I am in the opposite boat, 20 years ago I would have upgraded cables for best performance, now I think I know better
All my cables are Ps audio's top of the range which i eiter gor second hand or at heavily discounted prices.
At RRP they would have cost around £6-7,000. I spent about £1500 in total on them and they are worth every penny.
Ive had lesser cables at various price ranges and all gave improvoments but the more you spend, generally the more you get.
MattSPL
Well-known member
cse
Well-known member
Mains cables are the biggest waste of money going. The greatest difference in sound quality is quite easily the quality of the recording. I have nordost blue heaven and nordost red dawn and there in no perceavable difference between them, yet they have a substantial price differential. My nordost flatline copper coloured cable for the speakers, is also constantly failing to provide a proper signal where it gets bent and the signal gets cut. Grossly overpriced products. Although, I would concede that speaker cable provides the most audible difference. I also disagree that the mains cables provided by the maufacturers are of poor quality, they are usually of excellent quality and fit for purpose.
MattSPL
Well-known member
cse:Mains cables are the biggest waste of money going. The greatest difference in sound quality is quite easily the quality of the recording. I have nordost blue heaven and nordost red dawn and there in no perceavable difference between them, yet they have a substantial price differential. My nordost flatline copper coloured cable for the speakers, is also constantly failing to provide a proper signal where it gets bent and the signal gets cut. Grossly overpriced products. Although, I would concede that speaker cable provides the most audible difference. I also disagree that the mains cables provided by the maufacturers are of poor quality, they are usually of excellent quality and fit for purpose.
Oh dear here's another one
Oh dear here's another one
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
To be fair though, once you're talking about cable that's 3 figures per metre, the aw of diminishing returns would've kicked in long ago, making the differences between them subtle. This where trained ears and a revealing system play their part. It is quite easy to buy cables that are too expensive for a system, which renders their benefits null and void, and also reveal weaknesses in the electronics.
I envy that you can't tell the difference inexpensive & high end cables. You'll have more $ in your account than mine.
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